Potential Summer Transfers in and out

[the dude abides]

I do not agree with the stupid prices in today's market.  But we either have to poo or else get off the pot.

We are messing about and messing about.    Arsenal will eventually sell Nasri and Farbegras, and have 60 million quid in their wallet to spend.  They will then move for Downing and Enrique and we will be left high and dry.

For goodness sake Kenny, if you want Downing, do it ASAP.  Or else walk away and go for Mata instead.

Either way, get the finger out.

[Tes]

Villa have made it quite clear they aren't selling and have backed that up with a ridiculous valuation. I understand that Downing is the player that Kenny wants but sometimes you have to accept that we can't always have who we want.

Cissokho, IMHO, is not only a better player than Enrique but also represents better value and is available.
Newcastle don't want to sell Enrique and haven't made him available.
Also, I have this nagging doubt that Enrique wouldn't stick around. If he has a good season and Barca firm up their rumoured interest in him as a replacement for Abidal, he'll be off before we can say 'Catalonia'. Also his chances of a call up to the Spanish national team will be vastly improved if he's based in Spain.

[Martinmarx]

I agree with you Martin I think anything above fourth is above us right now as we are.  I do think we are working hard on the transfer front and slowly improving the squad but equally United have significantly improved theirs and seem intent on continuing to bring in even more quality. At this point in the summer I see United as strong favourites for next year but I dont think Chelsea and City are far behind. In my mind there is a big 3, followed by Arsenal ourselves and Spurs with not much between us.

I cant really see us doing enough in the transfer window to suggest we will have a good enough squad to break that top 3. Im not being negative just realistic and I hope fans arent overly expecting a title challenge. We have to start the league with winning it in mind but I still reckon we are some way off. As you say Martin our defence just isnt up to it, Skrtel may have played every minute of last season but he had some howlers along the way. He improved under Kenny but to win the league you need an almost flawless season from your centre backs and I cant see that happening with what we have.

I also agree on Agger. Im a big fan but hes spent the last 2 years nursing injuries. If he cant prove his fitness it may be time to look to replacing him.

Well said Juan. What strikes me as weird is we have such a strong tradition of building our team aroung  top-notch CB's. Much like United today we didn't have the biggest stars (in the Best, Lineker, Robson or Platini, Mattheus sense if you follow) during the 80's. Yet we picked up title after title. My favorite LFC player growing up was always Hansen.

Even my manc mate says without such a solid and stable back-4 they don't have a team for the top-4. It breaks my heart to see us splash out some 18-20 million on a pretty average Downing while simultaneously neglecting the fact our back-4 is probably bottom 5 in the PL. I respect Kenny but I do think his extreme focus on offensive players will only serve to make the team/squad heavily imbalanced (much as it has been, altho for other reasons, under GH and Rafa).

[Juan]

Well said Juan. What strikes me as weird is we have such a strong tradition of building our team aroung  top-notch CB's. Much like United today we didn't have the biggest stars (in the Best, Lineker, Robson or Platini, Mattheus sense if you follow) during the 80's. Yet we picked up title after title. My favorite LFC player growing up was always Hansen.

Even my manc mate says without such a solid and stable back-4 they don't have a team for the top-4. It breaks my heart to see us splash out some 18-20 million on a pretty average Downing while simultaneously neglecting the fact our back-4 is probably bottom 5 in the PL. I respect Kenny but I do think his extreme focus on offensive players will only serve to make the team/squad heavily imbalanced (much as it has been, altho for other reasons, under GH and Rafa).

One player that I feel does deserve alot of praise is Carragher. After seeing him at last years world cup and with the teams performances under hodgson I thought Carragher was finished as a far as being a mainstay in the first team. Under Kenny he has been a revelation again and if he can keep up the level of performance hes shown his place in the team wont be doubted.

I dont think Kenny is overlooking the defensive issue. As you say Martin the great Liverpool teams of the past were built of a great centre half pairing and I think Kenny knows this is an area of the team that probably needs most work. For whatever reason hes decided to get the midfield sorted first and that doesnt bother me as long as the defence gets the attention needed.  With Flanagan breaking through and with Johnson back vying for right back I wonder is Kenny considering the option of playing Martin Kelly at centre half. Its an option. I just hope Kellys injury problems are over because he seems to have had a career disrupted by injuries up to now. Lets just hope hes not a modern day Rob jones who was so unlucky.

Once Downing and doni are signed sealed and delivered I look forward to seeing who Kennys planning for defence.

[the dude abides]

Agger should have been our new Hansen.  But it's been obvious these past few seasons that he will struggle with injuries.  I'd reluctantly sell him - that has been my stance for the past 18 months.

As for Carragher.  I love the lad, always have.  But honestly, he's been done for 2 or 3 seasons.  And I am not even sure he was ever up to the level that we truly needed.  Pace was always his issue.  And bringing the ball out from the back - or distribution....forget it.  He's what we called in our circles, an agricultural type player.   To challenge for the top honours, one needs a bit of panache/class, and be seen to have time on the ball...not to mention better distribution abilities.

I wouldn't have given Glen Johnston a new contract.  Never, in my book, good enough as a defender.

Defence is a heck of a worry.  Kenny seems to think otherwise.  Maybe he's gonna adopt the Keegan approach - and through everything at the opposition next season.  Who needs a defence anyway.

I liked your attacking formation, Juan, in a post from a few days ago...loads of midfielders 

 

[Tes]

Agger's on a knife edge. Do we sell whilst he still maintains value or do we give him one more season and hope the medical team have sorted his underlying problems?

We definately need a first choice centre half, preferably with both pace and aerial ability, as apart from Soto for the latter, we desperately lack those qualities within our central defence and there are definate question marks individally against each of our centre halves. There isn't one outstanding candidate who you could rely on totally and build the defence around.

I would think Kelly needs a season or two of top level football before thinking about moving him to centre half, if at all. Afterall, he's proving to be a first class right back and if would be nice to have a full back with some height to help defend at set pieces.

I know it's an obvious thing but strong defences are what the best teams (Barcelona excepted) are generally. If you don't concede, you can't lose. Obvious, but true and vital to our aim.

[Juan]

Agger should have been our new Hansen.  But it's been obvious these past few seasons that he will struggle with injuries.  I'd reluctantly sell him - that has been my stance for the past 18 months.

As for Carragher.  I love the lad, always have.  But honestly, he's been done for 2 or 3 seasons.  And I am not even sure he was ever up to the level that we truly needed.  Pace was always his issue.  And bringing the ball out from the back - or distribution....forget it.  He's what we called in our circles, an agricultural type player.   To challenge for the top honours, one needs a bit of panache/class, and be seen to have time on the ball...not to mention better distribution abilities.

I wouldn't have given Glen Johnston a new contract.  Never, in my book, good enough as a defender.

Defence is a heck of a worry.  Kenny seems to think otherwise.  Maybe he's gonna adopt the Keegan approach - and through everything at the opposition next season.  Who needs a defence anyway.

I liked your attacking formation, Juan, in a post from a few days ago...loads of midfielders 

Lol Dude yeah we are a bit top heavy from a midfield perspective but hopefully Kenny will rectify that.

I dont think Kenny is neglecting the defence just yet. I think hes just trying to find the right personnel. Clichy would have been a coup at left back but he opted for CL football.

If we were to start the season with what we've got I would be concerned but I dont think that will happen. As for Johnson we have to keep him under contract. Last thing we would need is our 18 million right back running down his contract whether we intend to keep him or not. His defending was awful at times last season but Im optimistic Kenny can sort something out.

[Juan]

Agger's on a knife edge. Do we sell whilst he still maintains value or do we give him one more season and hope the medical team have sorted his underlying problems?

We definately need a first choice centre half, preferably with both pace and aerial ability, as apart from Soto for the latter, we desperately lack those qualities within our central defence and there are definate question marks individally against each of our centre halves. There isn't one outstanding candidate who you could rely on totally and build the defence around.

I would think Kelly needs a season or two of top level football before thinking about moving him to centre half, if at all. Afterall, he's proving to be a first class right back and if would be nice to have a full back with some height to help defend at set pieces.

I know it's an obvious thing but strong defences are what the best teams (Barcelona excepted) are generally. If you don't concede, you can't lose. Obvious, but true and vital to our aim.

To be honest Tes I was never a big fan of Barcas defence but somehow it seems to work. Valdes is suspect. Puyol in my opinion is a Carragher type defender, no nosense but not necessarily the most gifted footballer. Pique is solid at the back and very comfortable going forward. Abidal again I always felt was overpriced, I was never a fan. Alves in fairness to him is devastating going forward and isnt bad defensively either.

I wouldnt be surprised to see us sign Scott Dann from Birmingham. Havent seen much of him but I have a hunch its just a matter of time. Cahill is another player in demand but for some reason i have my doubts about him. Maybe its the fact he will command a huge transfer fee.

We really missed out with when United signed Vidic. To think we couldnt stump up a mesely 2 million extra at the time to snap him up.

To put things into context this time last season we were about to appoint Roy, sign Chritian Poulsen and Paul Konchesky and Hicks / Gillette didnt look any closer to leaving. 12 months on i dont think i could have hoped for a better turnaround

[Tes]

To be honest Tes I was never a big fan of Barcas defence but somehow it seems to work. Valdes is suspect. Puyol in my opinion is a Carragher type defender, no nosense but not necessarily the most gifted footballer. Pique is solid at the back and very comfortable going forward. Abidal again I always felt was overpriced, I was never a fan. Alves in fairness to him is devastating going forward and isnt bad defensively either.

I wouldnt be surprised to see us sign Scott Dann from Birmingham. Havent seen much of him but I have a hunch its just a matter of time. Cahill is another player in demand but for some reason i have my doubts about him. Maybe its the fact he will command a huge transfer fee.

We really missed out with when United signed Vidic. To think we couldnt stump up a mesely 2 million extra at the time to snap him up.

To put things into context this time last season we were about to appoint Roy, sign Chritian Poulsen and Paul Konchesky and Hicks / Gillette didnt look any closer to leaving. 12 months on i dont think i could have hoped for a better turnaround

Great points, Juan. 12 months really is a long time and there's been an amazing turnaround. We at least have hope and a chance to dream again.

Barca are definately the exception to the rule about great teams being built on a strong defence. As for ours, I think it will take a couple of (probably) Summer windows until it evolves into what it truly needs to be, depending on who end  up with this window and the availability and suitability of players in the future.
I'm with you on Cahill. Like you, I'm not whether it's the alleged price that's off putting or something about the player. Maybe I haven't seen enough of him up close over a decent period of time, but whatever it is, I won't be too upset if he doesn't line up in our shirt this season. Just what was it that allowed O'Neill, the arch buyer of British players, to originally sell him. Afterall, Villa haven't exactly got or had during O'Neill's tenure, a glut of top class centre halves.

[Edward224]

Well said Juan. What strikes me as weird is we have such a strong tradition of building our team aroung  top-notch CB's. Much like United today we didn't have the biggest stars (in the Best, Lineker, Robson or Platini, Mattheus sense if you follow) during the 80's. Yet we picked up title after title. My favorite LFC player growing up was always Hansen.

Even my manc mate says without such a solid and stable back-4 they don't have a team for the top-4. It breaks my heart to see us splash out some 18-20 million on a pretty average Downing while simultaneously neglecting the fact our back-4 is probably bottom 5 in the PL. I respect Kenny but I do think his extreme focus on offensive players will only serve to make the team/squad heavily imbalanced (much as it has been, altho for other reasons, under GH and Rafa).

Firstly:- Downing is not average. He is not world class either and neither will he ever be. But what he would provide us with is width on the left flank, speed and pace, a great delivery plus his shooting is excellent. He would provide us much needed balance in midfield and I for one hope we sign him.

Secondly:- Kenny IS NOT neglecting our defence. We WILL sign a centre back and a left back. Either Aly Cissokho or Jose Enrique will be signed for the left back slot. I have been told by reliable sources that we are looking abroad for central defenders.

We are definitely interested in centre backs. We have either enquired or bid for these central defenders:-

Scott Dann
Christian Zapata
Dejan Lovren
Mamadou Sakho
Gary Cahill

Either they asked for too much wages (Cahill wants £100,000 p/w!!!), the club asked for too much money (Sakho and Lovren) or enquired but our interested waivered (Dann and Zapata).

So the defence will be replenished with a left back and a centre back definitely.

Johnson's defending has improved 10 fold under the tutelage of Steve Clarke and was very impressive at the left back position. But in his natural position of right back Johnson will only better for the coaching clarke gives him. Plus with Kelly (a better defender) down his throat battling for that position, then for me we are very much sorted at right back for the future. Not taking into account the young Flanagan who has a bright future, so for the next 10 years the right back slot is definitely sorted.

Left back we need the new player to come in. Once he does we will have Aurelio and Robinson backing him up, plus Johnson could play there now too. Not discounting Insua as I don't know what will happen to him.

Centrally it is a bit of a concern. Agger is our best defender but is continually injured. Either next season this improves or he will probably be shipped out in January. However let's see what our new fitness team can do for him. Carra has to now slowly wind down his career, however for the big games there is no other defender that I would want than him. Without doubt he is a big game defender as he never hides and is always making a noise of himself. However his game time should reduce. Skrtel is definitely a liability, though Clarke has improved him too and he was more solid towards the end of the season, he is too prone to mistakes and we need to replace him. However I think Kenny will give him lots of game time next season.

Therefore I see our new central defenders next season as the new centre back next to carra for the big games and either Agger or Skrtel for the other games.

But in Wisdom and Coady we are sorted for the future too. Both will be immense players for us at the back.

I'd hazard the new backline next season then to be:-

----Johnson--------Carra/Agger/Skrtel---------New CB---------New LB

[Tes]

Zapata's signed for Villareal, there's concerns as to whether we'd get a work permit for Lovren, plus there's the question mark over why Lyon are prepared to sell so soon after signing him and apparently we've bauked at the price quoted for Sakho and he's just signed a new contract and been made captain of PSG.

[Juan]

Fee agreed for Downing.......

[Tes]

Fee agreed for Downing.......

Dare we uncover our eyes and ask how much? 

[Juan]

Dare we uncover our eyes and ask how much? 

Lol its the top end of what we hoped it to be. 20 million. Excessive but now that he will be a Liverpool player i suppose its only right to back the guy.

Our squad has been strengthened again which is pleasing. Now for the defence and attack.

[Tes]

I guess it's an improvement on Villa's official position (and not the media's price of £20M++) that he wasn't for sale at any price. If it's in the Henderson currency of £20M then the deal sounds even better.

It certainly shows that Henry & Co are backing the judgement of Dalglish & Co 110%. Back to the days of the directors (owners) just signing the cheques etc.