August 08, 2020, 01:26:18 AM

Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 330659 times)

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #180 on: September 23, 2011, 06:08:34 PM »
I'm not gonna argue tes, you don't have a point. At the same time, and after a summer where the players qued up to any journo willing to listen to how good our squad is and how Melwood is buzzing, it's also fair to ask: How do we judge progress or the lack of it. Some say it's early, and maybe it is. But how long before it becomes a truism in itself? Some say it's a transitional phase. Yes it is, but how long is such a phase? 6 months? 18 months? 3 seasons? Some say the players need to settle in. Word,  I say. But how long before the players aren't so new anymore?

I for one, and as I said above thought when I saw the fixture list in June the Stoke and Spurs games will be a good indicator whether we're going places since we've struggled at those places in recent years. As it turned out we lost both, albeit in two quite different ways. But does it really say in the history books how you lost a game? Doesn't it just tell how many games a team lost? Isn't there a saying the table never lies?

I'm not asking for instant success, I'm just asking for signs of improvement and there's none to be seen to be honest. We were always good when inspired, just like Bolton, Everton, Villa or Fulham. I wan't us to go on a 12 game unbeaten streak. Then and only then I'll admit we're going places. Other than that it's the same old it's been for the past 12 years. If we don't 4th will be beyond us and the pressure will mount even more.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #181 on: September 23, 2011, 10:34:03 PM »
Surprise surprise!! Another post filled with optimism from Martin. But don't worry folks, he only sends them when the day end with a 'y'.

Let's have some predictions for tomorrow's game against Wolves. I, the eternal optimist, predict 2-0.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #182 on: September 23, 2011, 11:22:44 PM »
Let's have some predictions for tomorrow's game against Wolves. I, the eternal optimist, predict 2-0.

Predict the line-up! some bloke over at Goal has been musing over where Stevie G fits in to all this:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/09/23/2678760/liverpools-midfield-conundrum-how-does-steven-gerrard-fit

Regards the score, no disrespect to Wolves but, I think they may have caught us on the wrong day!

Surprise surprise!! Another post filled with optimism from Martin. But don't worry folks, he only sends them when the day end with a 'y'.

Maybe he should watch KDs interview where he discusses SUPPORTERS!

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/video/interview/9768-free-exclusive-kenny-interview

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #183 on: September 24, 2011, 06:21:46 AM »
if I had to pick a team to meet right now (in our present depressed state), I'd say wolves, swansea or blackburn.

I have a lot of respect for mick mccarthy....top bloke.....BUT

we should AT LEAST win by two clear goals - *but* if Bellamy, Suarez and Kuyt start, then the wolves might flee Anfield with their tail firmly between their legs - after a 4 or 5 goal drubbing.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #184 on: September 24, 2011, 11:14:40 AM »
Surprise surprise!! Another post filled with optimism from Martin. But don't worry folks, he only sends them when the day end with a 'y'.

Let's have some predictions for tomorrow's game against Wolves. I, the eternal optimist, predict 2-0.

Surprise surprise!! Another post filled with anti-intellectual drivel from ASI. I don't think it pertains to negativity to ask questions about how improvement and progressions is to be measured, percieved or judged? Don't be so gutless.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #185 on: September 24, 2011, 11:32:47 AM »
Surprise surprise!! Another post filled with anti-intellectual drivel from ASI. I don't think it pertains to negativity to ask questions about how improvement and progressions is to be measured, percieved or judged? Don't be so gutless.

So what's your prediction for the game Martin? Another poor performance must surely be on the cards. Wolves to do us 1-0?
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #186 on: September 24, 2011, 11:49:06 AM »
I'm not gonna argue tes, you don't have a point. At the same time, and after a summer where the players qued up to any journo willing to listen to how good our squad is and how Melwood is buzzing, it's also fair to ask: How do we judge progress or the lack of it. Some say it's early, and maybe it is. But how long before it becomes a truism in itself? Some say it's a transitional phase. Yes it is, but how long is such a phase? 6 months? 18 months? 3 seasons? Some say the players need to settle in. Word,  I say. But how long before the players aren't so new anymore?

I for one, and as I said above thought when I saw the fixture list in June the Stoke and Spurs games will be a good indicator whether we're going places since we've struggled at those places in recent years. As it turned out we lost both, albeit in two quite different ways. But does it really say in the history books how you lost a game? Doesn't it just tell how many games a team lost? Isn't there a saying the table never lies?

I'm not asking for instant success, I'm just asking for signs of improvement and there's none to be seen to be honest. We were always good when inspired, just like Bolton, Everton, Villa or Fulham. I wan't us to go on a 12 game unbeaten streak. Then and only then I'll admit we're going places. Other than that it's the same old it's been for the past 12 years. If we don't 4th will be beyond us and the pressure will mount even more.

Martin, you make interesting points with your questions as to how to quantify certain aspects of the squad.

What are your opinions/answers to the questions you've posed?

I think it becomes more difficult for a large number of new players to gel when the team or the core of the squad the manager would ideally regularly use has the initial bedding in period disrupted with injuries. You lose continuity, personnel have to be changed and maybe the tactics altered slightly depending on the personnel changes.
This lack of flow is going to make it more difficult for such a large number of new players to acclimatise quickly.
Ideally, I'd say the maximum amount of new introductions to a standard first eleven you'd want to make would be three. Conservatively, we've made 5. Then we've had the additional injury problems at right back.
That doesn't include Andy Carroll and his lack of appearances since signing for us, and he also represents the point of changing tactics if you change personnel.

I know it seems like we've had many new dawns that have proven to be false or underwhelming, and patience is not an inexhaustable commodity, but it's all we have to give as fans - that, and our support. That doesn't mean we don't see the problems or gloss over them, but support must be given despite, and even because of them.

As for today, the performance is more important than the amount we win by. We need to win. No argument about it, but win need to start putting in a more constant level of performance and getting the style of play established and then perfected.
4-4-2 is not the way. 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with better interchange between the front 3 or 4, with improved support from midfield.  The midfield also need to keep possession better. If it means short passes, then so what. And more patience when in possession is also needed.
Also, we need to close down more quickly and press much higher up the pitch. The way we used to 'squeeze' the opposition in Rafa's first two seasons. The higher up the pitch we pressurise, the nearer the opposition's goal we win the ball back and the further away from our goal we keep them.
It's obvious, I know, but still....................   
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 11:51:49 AM by Tes »
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #187 on: September 24, 2011, 03:53:37 PM »
Liverpool v Wolves
Sept 24, 2011

half time, 2-0

Suarez is the difference in the two teams.  Thank goodness we have the little Uruguayan in our team.  He is a little magician.

Our performance mirrors every other performance this season to date - very industrious looking, but essentially organised chaos.  Depressing inability to retain the ball.  Depressing to see so much hoof it in the air strategy.  I do not like the way we play when Carroll is in the team.  Why have lovely technical players, like Maxi, Downing, Suarez and Adam, when we have Carra and Carroll to always lower the common denominator to hoof-it football.  Skitrail needs to be told to stop diving in.

Apart from the world class Suarez, there is very little between the two teams. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 03:55:10 PM by the dude abides »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #188 on: September 24, 2011, 04:11:50 PM »
Liverpool v Wolves
Sept 24, 2011

half time, 2-0

Suarez is the difference in the two teams.  Thank goodness we have the little Uruguayan in our team.  He is a little magician.

Our performance mirrors every other performance this season to date - very industrious looking, but essentially organised chaos.  Depressing inability to retain the ball.  Depressing to see so much hoof it in the air strategy.  I do not like the way we play when Carroll is in the team.  Why have lovely technical players, like Maxi, Downing, Suarez and Adam, when we have Carra and Carroll to always lower the common denominator to hoof-it football.  Skitrail needs to be told to stop diving in.

Apart from the world class Suarez, there is very little between the two teams.

LFC, sponsored by prozac.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #189 on: September 24, 2011, 04:15:35 PM »
LFC, sponsored by prozac.

2-1 now

wolves are dangerous.

I hope more prozac isn't necessary by 5 o'çlock.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #190 on: September 24, 2011, 04:22:49 PM »
2-1 now

wolves are dangerous.

I hope more prozac isn't necessary by 5 o'çlock.

What, with our centre half pairing?  :D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #191 on: September 24, 2011, 04:29:41 PM »
It's quite depressing that we cannot keep clean sheets especially against the lesser sides. More investment required in January.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #192 on: September 24, 2011, 04:34:31 PM »
What, with our centre half pairing?  :D

 :D

thing is, at least with keegan's sides, you get goals when you are THAT offence-minded.

but with kenny's side, all that going forward industry yields so few clear chances.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #193 on: September 24, 2011, 04:37:42 PM »
It's quite depressing that we cannot keep clean sheets especially against the lesser sides. More investment required in January.

agreed, ASI re depressing.

I reckon you are starting to see the light.  This stuff we are watching is pure chaos.  I said earlier it is organised chaos.  But I will reclassify it as CHAOS, there is very little organised about it.

The problem is in the dugout.  We have loads of talent in the team and on the bench.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #194 on: September 24, 2011, 04:52:24 PM »
Dude,

I'm not watching. I'm listening on BBC Radio. So I don't know who (if anyone) was culpable for the goal. I do get annoyed when Kuyt is dropped because he's one of our more influential players.

Anyway, we've won 2-1 but not the perfomance I was hoping for. I suppose Kenny is being very careful with Gerrard but I think he could have played 45 mins today.
Cheers,
Ray