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Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 353235 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #225 on: September 29, 2011, 10:55:22 PM »
We need to kickstart our season. A few players need to be looking to give us a big performance.

What's the odds on the score being the same as Dalglish's last Derby?
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #226 on: September 30, 2011, 12:33:32 AM »
A few players need to be looking to give us a big performance.

The lads usually turn up for the Derby! I'm just hoping Adam doesn't
get sent off....In fact with hotheads like Bellamy & Suarez it will be
a miracle if we finish with more than 8 players on the pitch :) LOL.


 

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #227 on: September 30, 2011, 01:22:02 PM »
I don't think i'd play Carroll for the derby...
 
                                                 Suarez

 Downing       Maxi           Lucas            Adam/Gerrard                Kuyt


              Enrique           Skrtel              Coates              Kelly

Bellamy to be brought on for in the 62nd minute for maxi...

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #228 on: September 30, 2011, 03:44:52 PM »
I don't think i'd play Carroll for the derby...
 
                                                 Suarez

 Downing       Maxi           Lucas            Adam/Gerrard                Kuyt


              Enrique           Skrtel              Coates              Kelly

Bellamy to be brought on for in the 62nd minute for maxi...

Jamie didn't become a crap defender overnight, granted there are aspects
to his game that....well.... less said about them the better....Age, obviously
hasn't helped other parts & I think there is an anxiety about him at the
start of the season as he addresses the question of "Whether he's good
enough anymore"

Some things can't be fixed, but I do expect him to settle down and be back to his old
self with a few more games under his belt. Whether he's consistently good enough
to retain a starting 11 place depends, imo, what options we have this season (Agger,
injuries & Coates acclimatising).

Anyway, in the heat of battle of a Merseyside Derby he's my FIRST NAME ON THE
TEAMSHEET.

Regarding Carroll, I like the idea of a BIG physical presence up front in a Derby game
away from home....

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #229 on: September 30, 2011, 10:11:51 PM »
Jamie didn't become a crap defender overnight, granted there are aspects
to his game that....well.... less said about them the better....Age, obviously
hasn't helped other parts & I think there is an anxiety about him at the
start of the season as he addresses the question of "Whether he's good
enough anymore"

Ed, I reckon you've hit the nail firmly on it's head. Carra realises that age is taking away the ability to perform in the same way as he did 4 or 5 years ago and he's been having trouble adjusting ever since the realisation hit home.
Sometimes he appears to try too hard or overcompensate. Sometimes though the frustration he's experiencing with himself appears to boil over and is reflected in how he deals with his team mates. I'm not saying he 'takes it out on them' because I really don't think that's the case but it does have a negative influence on his interaction with those around.

I think this a game Carroll needs. He looked a touch better last time out and I think we need to build on that.
I'd definately have Dirk in instead of Henderson. Dirk has a knack of popping up with a goal in games like this and he'll offer greater protection against Baines to whoever plays right back.

It would be a big ask to throw Coates into the madness of a Derby game. Let him learn from the sidelines to begin with.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #230 on: October 01, 2011, 02:48:30 AM »
Ed, I reckon you've hit the nail firmly on it's head. Carra realises that age is taking away the ability to perform in the same way as he did 4 or 5 years ago and he's been having trouble adjusting ever since the realisation hit home.
Sometimes he appears to try too hard or overcompensate. Sometimes though the frustration he's experiencing with himself appears to boil over and is reflected in how he deals with his team mates. I'm not saying he 'takes it out on them' because I really don't think that's the case but it does have a negative influence on his interaction with those around.

I think this a game Carroll needs. He looked a touch better last time out and I think we need to build on that.
I'd definately have Dirk in instead of Henderson. Dirk has a knack of popping up with a goal in games like this and he'll offer greater protection against Baines to whoever plays right back.

It would be a big ask to throw Coates into the madness of a Derby game. Let him learn from the sidelines to begin with.

Agreed 100%.

Hope the ref doesn't ruin it!

Martin Atkinson did the Arsenal game earlier this season:

http://www.soccerbase.com/referees/referee.sd?referee_id=832&season_id=141

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #231 on: October 01, 2011, 05:31:45 PM »
Agreed 100%.

Hope the ref doesn't ruin it!

Martin Atkinson did the Arsenal game earlier this season:

http://www.soccerbase.com/referees/referee.sd?referee_id=832&season_id=141

Looks like he did his best. Still, a victory is a victory. It keeps us on Newcastle's tail for when they falter and hopefully the North London Derby ends in a stalemate, giving us a two point advantage over the weekend against those two rivals.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #232 on: October 01, 2011, 06:50:45 PM »
I don't think i'd play Carroll for the derby...
 

Says me the tactical genius...

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #233 on: October 01, 2011, 07:19:24 PM »
With away games out of the way such as Emirates, Britannia, WHL and Goodison Park, 4 of the toughest away grounds for us already out the way by October 1st, we are in a good position. All away games are difficult, but taking out Old Trafford, Stamford and Etihad Stadium the away games left for us are all winnable. So the position we are in is quite decent.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #234 on: October 01, 2011, 08:20:15 PM »
Says me the tactical genius...

Don't be so hard on yourself, Barticus. Not many little orange space invaders get the tactical calls alright.

Based on current form it was a hard case to argue. He took his goal really well. Hopefully, both he and the team can now kick on.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #235 on: October 02, 2011, 12:36:26 AM »
One thing I did notice was Lucas's passing today - besides the 92% pass completion.

Up until Adam went off on 67 minutes, Lucas made 24 passes, 23 successful.  Once Adam was replaced by Gerrard in the next 21 minutes that Lucas was in central midfield with Gerrard, Lucas made 51 passes, 45 successful.  Thats some major difference.  Now I know Everton were getting tired, but 24 passes in 67 minutes with Adam, compared to 51 passes in 21 minutes with Gerrard is a quite remarkable difference.  1/3rd of the time on the pitch with Gerrard, more than twice the amount of passes.  It's also the time we scored both of our goals.  Co-incidence?

When I see Lucas on the ball I start breathing regularly. You know he'll control it first time, you know his pass will be crisp and well chosen, and you know his movement after delivery will be intelligent.

Alternatively, when an opponent beats his marker and has a bit of a free run I won't start panicking until I can't see Lucas chasing him down or cutting off his chosen path.


But I guess Lucas is just a limited footballer eh......................

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #236 on: October 02, 2011, 01:27:51 AM »
But I guess Lucas is just a limited footballer eh......................

Lucas is a class act, a fantastic footballer & character, we all know that?

How to structure the midfield around him is the big question imo. Adam gives
us something as does Gerrard.

What was evident today in a 2 man midfield, Gerrard provides the adventureness which
you could argue Lucas, for whatever reason, lacks. In fact I'd say Lucas was Yin to Gerrards
Yang. Only games will tell whether that's enough. Tbh, although he performs his role admirably,
imo, Lucas can get caught out for pace occasionally and we are vulnerable to giving away
free kicks and letting players get shots off just outside the box with this 2 man set-up.

Therefore, I'm open to 5 man midfield with Lucas lying deeper and 1 up front with support from
the third midfielder. In fact originally I thought we bought Henderson for a central role?

Anyway, I think we can get away with Gerrard and Lucas as a 2 midfield for some games (the thing
about Adam is I wonder if you get 90 minutes out of him) but think we should consider reverting to 5
occasionally, 'til the centre back situation is sorted out proper!

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #237 on: October 02, 2011, 08:02:16 PM »
Lucas is a class act, a fantastic footballer & character, we all know that?

How to structure the midfield around him is the big question imo. Adam gives
us something as does Gerrard.

What was evident today in a 2 man midfield, Gerrard provides the adventureness which
you could argue Lucas, for whatever reason, lacks. In fact I'd say Lucas was Yin to Gerrards
Yang. Only games will tell whether that's enough. Tbh, although he performs his role admirably,
imo, Lucas can get caught out for pace occasionally and we are vulnerable to giving away
free kicks and letting players get shots off just outside the box with this 2 man set-up.

Therefore, I'm open to 5 man midfield with Lucas lying deeper and 1 up front with support from
the third midfielder. In fact originally I thought we bought Henderson for a central role?

Anyway, I think we can get away with Gerrard and Lucas as a 2 midfield for some games (the thing
about Adam is I wonder if you get 90 minutes out of him) but think we should consider reverting to 5
occasionally, 'til the centre back situation is sorted out proper!

Considering Lucas was originally an attacking midfielder at Gremio, who would keep the ball moving in the final 1/3 and around the opponents box, whilst breaking into the box and getting on the end of things when the chance arose, his metamorphasis has been a huge one. I hope Henderson can learn from Lucas and adopt his steely mentality.
I know people claim his passing is 'limited' but when you look at his midfielder partners, he isn't provided the protection to get forward himself and his discipline is one of his major, if vastly underrated and appreciated, talents.
Even when played with Mascherano, he wasn't allowed to get forward as Rafa's policy was to have two sitting in front of the defence.

If we revert to a five man midfield (or a 3, 2 split) it would give us the extra body in there both in a defensive an offensive sense, but then one of Suarez or Carroll misses out.

I think Henderson needs some time out to learn. He needs to watch Dirk's movement and combination play with Suarez and also how Dirk chooses his runs and never leaves his full back exposed or over run.

Adam needs to watch DVDs of Xabi to learn that you don't have to throw yourself in to win the ball. His attempts at tackling are sometimes ill thought out. Many times he dives in when he should simply sheppard the man, pressurise and wait for a clear view of the ball before attempting to tackle. You don't need to neccessarily win the ball. Forcing an opponent to turn and play the ball backwards is good defending. The opposition can't score by playing passes backwards in the direction of their own goal and hence away from ours.     
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #238 on: October 04, 2011, 01:45:38 AM »
I note the Gunners played 5 across the middle away to
Spurs yesterday and it effectively contained them for
large periods:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/oct/02/arsene-wenger-arsenal-tottenham

Which begs the question to what degree we are tied
to 4 in the middle this season? It's also worth asking,
imo, given that we seem to be playing 4 in the middle
at the moment, where are current centre-half pairing
would rank amongst the other teams in the league?

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #239 on: October 04, 2011, 01:17:45 PM »
Where is Martin, he is usually here after a loss or a draw  :P ;)

Considering our best centre half partnership is Carra-Agger, I'd rate them in this order:-

1:- King/Dawson
2:- Jones/Vidic
3:- Kompany/Lescott
4:- Terry/Alex
5:- Carra/Agger
6:- Shawcross/Woodgate
7:- Jagielka/Distin

The rest.............