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Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 331299 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #240 on: October 04, 2011, 09:12:59 PM »
I note the Gunners played 5 across the middle away to
Spurs yesterday and it effectively contained them for
large periods:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/oct/02/arsene-wenger-arsenal-tottenham

Which begs the question to what degree we are tied
to 4 in the middle this season? It's also worth asking,
imo, given that we seem to be playing 4 in the middle
at the moment, where are current centre-half pairing
would rank amongst the other teams in the league?

We are tied to a four man midfield if we are to play Suarez and Carroll as a traditional 'front two'. We don't as yet have the personal to play effectively as a 'traditional' four man midfield and it means we get over run and lose the flexibility 4-4-3 or 4-2-3-1 gives us unless one of our forwards becomes a 'utility' midfielder when we don't have the ball. Also we lack too much pace and mobility in central midfield for a two man central midfield to be constantly successful and our ball winning personnel there numbers one, as Charlie Adam's tackling is too poor to be relied upon and a yellow card (or worse) waiting to happen.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #241 on: October 04, 2011, 11:32:09 PM »
We are tied to a four man midfield if we are to play Suarez and Carroll as a traditional 'front two'. We don't as yet have the personal to play effectively as a 'traditional' four man midfield and it means we get over run and lose the flexibility 4-4-3 or 4-2-3-1 gives us unless one of our forwards becomes a 'utility' midfielder when we don't have the ball. Also we lack too much pace and mobility in central midfield for a two man central midfield to be constantly successful and our ball winning personnel there numbers one, as Charlie Adam's tackling is too poor to be relied upon and a yellow card (or worse) waiting to happen.

I tend to agree completely with that!

Ed reckons we have the 5th best centre half pairing in the league
(with a fully fit Agger!). I'm not as familiar with other teams
to comment, but my gut tells me we are weak in that area. I'd rather
see Lucas lying deeper and us playing to our strengths with Gerrard up
behind a lone striker and Adam doing the passing in the middle.
At least this way we have Gerrard to come back and help out in midfield.

I'm all in favour of steadily accumulating points on the board and if
we have to be conservative defensively, control games and win 1-0,
I don't care who starts up front.


Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #242 on: October 05, 2011, 09:17:30 PM »
Here's a good article about United

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/10/05/why-are-manchester-united-allowing-so-many-shots-on-their-goal-this-season/

that touches on some of the issues that me and Tes have been harping on about.

I think if you also added in where on the pitch we've been giving away free kicks it
would be interesting (I may have a look myself at the Chalkboards on the Guardian
& report back  :D).

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #243 on: October 05, 2011, 09:55:51 PM »
Here's a good article about United

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/10/05/why-are-manchester-united-allowing-so-many-shots-on-their-goal-this-season/

that touches on some of the issues that me and Tes have been harping on about.

I think if you also added in where on the pitch we've been giving away free kicks it
would be interesting (I may have a look myself at the Chalkboards on the Guardian
& report back  :D).

Sooner or later some of those shots are going to end up as goals. Interestingly, the article claims De Gea is supposedly weak on shots from distance, but the goals conceded hardly back it up. However, from what I've seen of him his weakness looks to be crosses. Either way, we need to put him under pressure from both long range and get plenty of balls into the box from wide positions, then hopefully any mishandling can be buried in the back of the net by Suarez. Also, whoever gets the nod up front needs to be told to follow in every shot and with either Adam or Gerrard playing, we should be trying our luck from distance. 

Ed, it'll be interesting to read what you find out from the chalk boards.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #244 on: October 06, 2011, 01:05:41 PM »
As long as we can mix it up by attacking those weaknesses in the air but also playing like the attacking unit when we played manure last march then i for one will be happy...if we resort to 'lump ball' only then we not only do not play to our strengths, we will also fall prey to manure and become one dimensional...it might then be open season...
we can beat anyone...but we also need to play with the confidence of the second half of last season...
then it'll be game on...
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 01:07:40 PM by barticus »

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #245 on: October 07, 2011, 12:39:47 AM »
As long as we can mix it up by attacking those weaknesses in the air but also playing like the attacking unit when we played manure last march then i for one will be happy...if we resort to 'lump ball' only then we not only do not play to our strengths, we will also fall prey to manure and become one dimensional...it might then be open season...
we can beat anyone...but we also need to play with the confidence of the second half of last season...
then it'll be game on...

Agreed, Barticus. We need to go back to the way we played when Dalglish took over. The Mancs are playing more 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 would give us a greater chance of controlling the midfield, and hence the match.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #246 on: October 07, 2011, 02:36:40 PM »
Agreed, Barticus. We need to go back to the way we played when Dalglish took over. The Mancs are playing more 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 would give us a greater chance of controlling the midfield, and hence the match.
Amen Tes! with Gerrard as auxiliary striker to Suarez and kuyt attacking with either maxi/downing...Adam doing nothign fancy and remaining calm and lucas keeping it tight in defensive mid...bellamy to be introduced to add even more pace later on
then we can get something from the game....
i think 4-4-2 and Carroll is too big a luxury for this type of game...he might fit in, in smaller games..i will stand corrected if he plays well....

Am also fairly irritated how manure are playing this season....i really thought there would be a weakening once scholes, van der sar, neville, brown, oshea etc had gone...but if anything they've played slightly better...though found out in europe...premier teams really have to stop giving them so much respect...and have a go...

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #247 on: October 07, 2011, 05:01:16 PM »
...premier teams really have to stop giving them so much respect...and have a go...

75 percent of the teams they play are beaten before the game starts. Teams give them respect they dont deserve no matter if its a team of United reserves. And though you make your own luck they tend to get things served up to them. Last season Champions League semi final they could have drawn Real or Barca, instead  they draw Schalke who were 10th in the Bundesliga at the time. This season where Man City draw Villareal, Bayern and Napoli in the CL they draw a group of nobodys. Even in the latest draw of the Carling Cup, plenty of Premier League ties, we get Stoke, United get Aldershot. They always have home games after the tough Champions league matches. For about 6 seasons in a row they got a home draw for the first game of the PL. There wasnt a penalty decision against United at OT for something like 10 years from 1994-2004 or thereabouts. You look at the likes of the Spurs goal that was never given against Roy Carroll, nearly a metre over the line. They got a penalty that never was when Spurs were 2 nil up and United came back to win 5-2. Last season Blackpool were 2 nil up and the ref didnt give a blatant penalty against United that most liely would have finished the game. United came back to win 3-2. Apologies this has turned into a bit of a rant but Im often sickened by the preferntial treatment they get. Whether its crowding the ref or Fergie trying to manipulate officials its always the same. They have started handing Fergie touchline bans for his outbursts and maybe a 10 grand fine, joke, the fact that he is back shooting his mouth off within weeks proves the punishment doesnt fit the crime. Why not start hitting clubs who dont follow the rules with a points deduction? fergie would never agree to that. The sooner the PL, Fifa and Uefa look at the way professional rugby is governed, refereed and run the sooner they could sort our all thats wrong with football. Problem is there are too many conflicting interests in the game, too much money changing hands and while thats the case teams like United can do and say what they want and all they risk is a slap on the wrist. Once again apologies rant over.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #248 on: October 07, 2011, 07:35:58 PM »
Bang on Juan...at one stage i thought it would be highlighted...rafa tried to...but the manure press pilloried him...wenger probably can't at the moment...and a whole host of them are fergie lovers...mancini might try but he'll prolly be written down as a 'bloody foreigner'....
as soon as there is weakness the rats will jump ship....
gotta keep praying...and writing to santa...
it will come...
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 07:39:24 PM by barticus »

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #249 on: October 07, 2011, 10:03:16 PM »
Bang on Juan...at one stage i thought it would be highlighted...rafa tried to...but the manure press pilloried him...wenger probably can't at the moment...and a whole host of them are fergie lovers...mancini might try but he'll prolly be written down as a 'bloody foreigner'....
as soon as there is weakness the rats will jump ship....
gotta keep praying...and writing to santa...
it will come...

Lol, at this stage with every Champions League draw that goes by and with the luck that United accumulate Im pretty sure Santa is a United fan. As is God, Allah, Buddah, Ganesh whoever else you can think because Ive prayed to them all without any joy.

Seriously though there is a group of managers in the Premier League that would worship the saliva in his chewing gum. David Moyes who in my mind is a fantastic manager has no reason to have allegences with fergie but he does. Fat Sam is like his minnion. I saw him interviewed during the summer at the races, fergies horse was racing. I dont think misses Ferguson would have looked as proud beside Fergie, Sam looked as if Fergie had just proposed. He'd have said yes too. Bruce is another I cant abide, especially when it come to game time. You just know sunderland will get mauled by United and Bruce will almost thank fergie for the privilage.

Its amazing, this club, its mangers and players associated have rarely got the accolades they deserve down through the years from cetain quarters. How the likes of Paisley and Dalglish never got knighthoods for me is further evidence of the blatant difference in how LFC is viewed / portrayed by some compared with MUFC. The work Dalglish did after Hilsborough alone was worth a knighthood, not to mind what hes done for football itself but it will be the likes of the Beckhams or Giggs who will be honoured ever before Dalglish gets what hes long overdue.

Apologies Ive broken into another rant. It just pains me to see United portrayed by the media the way they are.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #250 on: October 08, 2011, 12:04:56 AM »
Juan, give over apologising and keep telling it like it is. Two thoroughly enjoyable posts.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #251 on: October 08, 2011, 08:14:53 PM »
So, as promised, some stats! Tbh, with the exception of Sunderland,
it isn't as bad as I expected! Still reckon that we're better with
a 5 man midfield, given our weakness at centre back!  :P

Sunderland Home:     10 shots outside the box, 1 on target.

                 20 Free Kicks conceded in our half

Arsenal Away:          5 shots outside the box 1 blocked, 1 on target

                 6 Free Kicks conceded in our half

Bolton Home:             4 shots outside the box, 2 blocked, 1 on target

                                3 Free Kicks conceded in our half

Stoke Away:              1 shot outside the box, blocked

                                 13 Free Kicks conceded in our half

Spurs away:             9 shots outside the box, 3 blocked, 3 on target

                                14 Free Kicks conceded in our half

Wolves Home:          5 shots from outside the box, 2 blocked

                                15 Free Kicks conceded in our half

Everton away:          9 shots from outside the box, 3 blocked, 2 on target

                                 13 Free Kicks conceded in our half
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 08:18:26 PM by Ed »

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #252 on: October 09, 2011, 07:54:55 PM »
Wonder if we'll start with Suarez, given the early kick-off on Saturday?
Then again, I presume Lucas is away as well and I'd expect him to start.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #253 on: October 10, 2011, 12:01:31 AM »
It would be best to start him then take him off if needed. We'd have one very unhappy Uruguayian if we did anything else. It's so good to have a player like Luis who just wants to play football, all the time.

Imagine the lift it would give the Mancs if Luis wasn't in the starting line up.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #254 on: October 10, 2011, 10:43:48 PM »
It would be best to start him then take him off if needed. We'd have one very unhappy Uruguayian if we did anything else. It's so good to have a player like Luis who just wants to play football, all the time.

Imagine the lift it would give the Mancs if Luis wasn't in the starting line up.

Dunno, big decisions for KD! I don't think Lucas got a game against Costa Rica
but he's in the squad for Mexico on Wednesday...

I think we use Suarez too much as it is and am worried we'll pay for it down the
line...

With a lunchtime kick-off at home on the Saturday, I would have no arguments
with Carroll starting and us demonstrating the depth of the squad....Spearing,
Gerrard & Adam in the centre?

IMO, we need to think about the whole season and boll***s to this gung-ho
nonsense! Obviously, I want us to beat the Mancs, just I'd settle for 1- 0 &
think we should have the depth to do it without overtaxing 2 of our most
valuable players so erly in the season?