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Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 319809 times)

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #690 on: January 04, 2012, 12:47:14 AM »
Yes, because you're not, or at least you shouldn't be, guided by what the actual net spend comes down to, but rather what quality the player bring in. If we'd spent 14 million on 3 players it would've been much easier to live with the fact they'r not good enough. You don' get it do you? The money will be gone and we ain't gonna get any new either from Henry nor from CL footy. You say build up is slow. It may be, but so is also decay.

But Martin why will the money be gone as you say if in fact we've actually only spent 40 million Nett. Why are you worried about the 112 million when we are actually balancing our books? Forget about the value of players and the players we have already signed. If LFC is actually balancing the books, driving down its wage costs, selling unused players that in previous years would have been making no contribution and collecting a wage why then are you worried about our financial state of affairs because we spent roughly 40 million net in one window? You say I dont get it , maybe your right but Im pretty sure John Henry gets it and if he allows Kenny Dalglish a Nett Spend of 40 million Im pretty sure its not going to bankrupt the club anytime soon.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #691 on: January 04, 2012, 01:34:31 AM »
The money's gone in the sense that of the 75 million Kenny splashed out on Carrol, Henderson and Downing he'd get back roughly half that sum if he sold them today (don't think he could get them sold at all to be honest). Your way of using the net spend argument wouldn't get you many jobs as an accountant.

But I don't want this to be an economic discussion. The key question is though, do we get the quality we're paying for, or indeed are in desperate need of? The only answer to that is a blatant NO! Could we use that money in a better way to organise the team and the squad? YES. Is the club in a state where it needs players to come in and make an instant difference, or can we afford to miss out on CL footy another couple of years to allow players of questionable quality to fit in? I'd say it's the former. That's why your argument Henderson is bought for the next 10 years makes me realise how diametrically different we view things. You see, if he's here for the long haul surely it won't traumatise his career to be slowly introduced to the team while better and more experienced players help creating a winning culture/mentality? But Kenny's hellbent on proving to the world he was right in bringing him in and playing him ahead of far better players. Don Quijote springs to mind. You say building a team will take time.

Many fans spent the summer vetting their mouths at the prospect of Downing whipping in crosses for Carrol. What if I told you then the number of goals between them would stop at 1 after half the season's played. Is there any way I can get you to admit Kenny got it dead wrong on them three players?

Again, Bellers, Maxi and Kuijt will be go in the summer. They need replacing - open the wallet Henry. No worries, the net spend will be OK you see.

It aint working and instead of getting stuck in details I'd preferred if you could comment on my argument our manager is unable to make decent signings, play a suitable formation and play his best team. Or is that unfair criticism?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 01:37:35 AM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #692 on: January 04, 2012, 01:54:52 AM »
I've seen more balance in an inebriated camel, balancing a jelly on it's back, while riding a rollercoaster
Dude, let's not forget that Houghton, Barnes, Beardsley & Aldridge in full flow
is one of those rare things in football....a thing of great beauty....the balance
between these players goes above and beyond words, it's in a different realm!

Dalglish, to his credit is the author of that!

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #693 on: January 04, 2012, 04:38:50 AM »
The worse thing about Downing is not the fee but that his mentality appears so brittle.

The idea that players already playing in the Premier League won't need time to adapt is fine but it seems to have been overlooked that we're not asking them to adapt to the Premier League, but to adapt to playing for a much, much higher profile club than they previously have. That, is a bigger ask than the ability to realise the ball quicker as you have less time before being put under pressure (the requirement of a newcomer to the glorified pub football that is the Inglish Premyer League). The tactically and technically astute manage the adaptation OK.

Downing (and possibly) Adam are showing signs of not having the mentality or personality to adapt to being at a club with the profile we have. Adam has shown mere glimpses (at least on a consistant basis) of being anything more than the 'new Danny Murphy' rather than the 'new Alonso'.

Henderson needs to be seen in context. Within the context of what we needed he was the right player at the wrong time. That's not his fault and therefore shouldn't be judged as harshly. We were so far off where we needed to be that the players we signed needed to be for the 'now' not for 'the future'. Henderson will grow as Lucas has done.

It's a sign of the owner's inexperience of football that they listened to 'one of their own' in Billy Beane when appointing our 'transfer guru' in Comolli. Anybody else thought he did 'better than average' at Spurs?
No, thought not.
And here in lies my only problem with them so far. They've yet to make a 'football' appointment to the board. Yes. LFC is now a business, but it's business is football. You need to have the expertise in the market in which you operate, in addition to 'general business' expertise.

If Dalglish has 'the final say' then what weight does Comolli's views have? None, unless they happen to coincide with Dalglish's, then they get actioned, after a fashion.

If you have a director of football, you appoint a coach, and only a coach, not a manager. The director of football recruits, the coach fashions a team out of the raw material he's provided. That's the only way it works.
Dalglish is not a coach. Never has been. He's a manager.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #694 on: January 04, 2012, 11:25:35 PM »
Kuyt I salute you for the player you have been for us, but your time here is well and truly up.

Atrocious tonight.

Henderson has been very good though and Downing's confidence is really low.
Dunno, i'd be surprised if a clever player like Kuyt, became sh.ite overnight (even more
surprised if he became shiite).

Granted he didn't have his best game in a red shirt. It would be disrespectful though, imo, to
write off a Dutch international who's played in a World Cup final & served us so well in the past.
I think the following are valid reasons:

He hasn't scored in so long (Strikers need goals, even if they're playing on the wing)

A senior player being pretty much sidelined from the beginning of the season in favour
of unproven talent. (Ouch!)

Adjusting his game to all the new styles. (strange 'cos he usually adapts well)
 
I also don't think the line-up + tactics suited his game on the night (I remember at one point
seeing him stranded out wide on the right, as Enrique prepared to launch one from deep to Carroll).
Kuyt's a great link guy, imo, gives the ball and looks for the return, clever interplay is a hallmark.
Obviously, he's not going to get much joy out of Carroll in that respect. Moving into the midfield,
there's Henderson, Spearing & Adam - Spearing plays deep, Adam's a left-footer (not a natural
partner for Kuyt on the right) &  Henderson wouldn't be consistent and/or adventurous enough
in terms of attacking intent to suit Kuyts rhythm, imo (Kuyt's always on the move looking for an
opening, Henderson is just learning the ropes and keeping possession is a lot of what he does).

I take the point though that he was peripheral (but didn't do much wrong) and his energy levels
weren't as high as we've seen before. Think he just needs a goal and some more creativity
around him and he'll be back to his usual self.

tbh, i wasn't too impressed with Johnson and would like to see young Kelly back in the side,
especially if Kuyt's playing (just feel Dirk has to be more defensive-minded at the wrong end
of the pitch when Johnson plays). Not saying Johnson is shine-a-light, just think he's the sort of player
that needs to be kept on his toes and some of his crosses (Downing also) are just not
acceptable if we're relying on Carroll up front.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #695 on: January 05, 2012, 04:00:50 PM »
Can't stop sniggering about this  :D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxR-uaZCNJ4

 :P

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #696 on: January 05, 2012, 04:36:17 PM »
 :D     Utd have some defensive issues to work on.   Clearly keeper and his central defence have communication issues.  Can't see the keeper being around much after the summer.

Re Kuyt.  Great lad.  Played in a world cup and a CL final.   Kenny doesn't know his ar.se from his elbow....and thus people like Kuyt are having their form destroyed.     Our best team has the likes of Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy in it.  Mereless was great too - but Kenny jettisoned him too.   

Kenny's efforts at team building are dire.....it's a sad indictment that he has to resort back to Rafa's lads/team when he needs results.



In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #697 on: January 05, 2012, 05:22:24 PM »
:D     Utd have some defensive issues to work on.   Clearly keeper and his central defence have communication issues.  Can't see the keeper being around much after the summer.

Re Kuyt.  Great lad.  Played in a world cup and a CL final.   Kenny doesn't know his ar.se from his elbow....and thus people like Kuyt are having their form destroyed.     Our best team has the likes of Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy in it.  Mereless was great too - but Kenny jettisoned him too.   
We'll have to wait and see what happens in the January transfer window...

Though, I am concerned about what's happen to Kuyt (Aldridge, Twentyman) and
never agreed with selling Meireles in the short-term (he'd shown, he had what it
takes to score goals from midfield and be a creative attacker... something we sorely
miss atm + he provided continuity with all the new faces)

Anyway, panic buys would be bad sign! Young promising talent with Champions League
pedigree would suggest a grand plan (regeneration) , imo.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #698 on: January 06, 2012, 03:49:12 PM »
I think we'll struggle to avoid a replay at their place. That's how sad we've become. I'll get a more clinical prediction once the team's announced. Have a bad feeling about this one. Hope I'm wrong tho.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #699 on: January 06, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »
We'll have to wait and see what happens in the January transfer window...

Though, I am concerned about what's happen to Kuyt (Aldridge, Twentyman) and
never agreed with selling Meireles in the short-term (he'd shown, he had what it
takes to score goals from midfield and be a creative attacker... something we sorely
miss atm + he provided continuity with all the new faces)

Anyway, panic buys would be bad sign! Young promising talent with Champions League
pedigree would suggest a grand plan (regeneration) , imo.

agreed, on all scores.

personally, from my vantage point, I see the further that Kenny moves away from Rafa's team  rebuilds, the worse we become. 

We look at our very strongest, on those few occasions when Kenny resorts to Rafa's lads - Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy, etc. 

When Kenny plays his own lads, Adam, Henderson, Carroll, we look top 8 material (top 6 at best).

It's a sad indictment of Kenny's team building skills.  Then again, when you sell top technical players like Mereless and refuse to play top technical players like Maxi, but instead bring in donkey-speed hoofers like Carroll, then what do you expect to happen. 

I cannot imagine Barca, Milan or Madrid will be losing sleep over meeting Carroll, Downing or Adam.

Desperately frustrating when the likes of Benitez, Ancellotti and O'Neill are out there, and who would hit the ground running.  Those individuals have forgotten more about putting teams together, than Dalglish has ever known.




In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #700 on: January 06, 2012, 05:05:29 PM »
I think we'll struggle to avoid a replay at their place. That's how sad we've become. I'll get a more clinical prediction once the team's announced. Have a bad feeling about this one. Hope I'm wrong tho.
FFS, do you seriously think this is the attitude with which Shankly imbued our club?

A league 1 side coming to Anfield and we're supposed to s h i t ourselves?

Granted Oldham have nothing to lose and we'll respect their commitment and abilities,
but we've got a clutch of fringe players who will feel that they all have points to prove
and will be chomping at the bit to be involved in this one. I'm sure Kenny knows enough
to get the mix of experience and youth right and will send out a TEAM that will get the job
done.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #701 on: January 06, 2012, 05:10:01 PM »
Then again, when you sell top technical players like Mereless

I cannot imagine Barca, Milan or Madrid will be losing sleep over meeting Carroll, Downing or Adam.
Agreed, regarding Meireles, though I think we only needed him short-term and the wages
with a renegotiated contract meant the decision wasn't footballing, imo.

Agreed also that Caarroll, Downing and Adam were definitely bought with the premiership in mind.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #702 on: January 06, 2012, 09:58:46 PM »
FFS, do you seriously think this is the attitude with which Shankly imbued our club?

A league 1 side coming to Anfield and we're supposed to s h i t ourselves?

Granted Oldham have nothing to lose and we'll respect their commitment and abilities,
but we've got a clutch of fringe players who will feel that they all have points to prove
and will be chomping at the bit to be involved in this one. I'm sure Kenny knows enough
to get the mix of experience and youth right and will send out a TEAM that will get the job
done.

It all came down to lady luck in the end. Besides Bellers opener that is.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #703 on: January 08, 2012, 09:17:26 PM »
So we get the FA's favourite team at home in the 4th round. What's the betting it gets moved to 'a neutral' ground 'to avoid trouble' or even better, home fans are banned.

There is so much latitude for further damage to our reputation that it's not funny.

I bet the FA suits are having a nervous breakdown.

Hope the lesson to Blatter was well worth it.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #704 on: January 11, 2012, 07:09:43 PM »
Teams

Liverpool: Reina; Kelly, Agger, Skrtel, G Johnson; Gerrard, Spearing, Henderson, Downing; Carroll, Bellamy. Subs: Enriqué, Coates, Kuyt, Carragher, Shelvey, Adam, Doni.

Manchester City: Hart, Richards, Savic, Lescott, Clichy, Barry, de Jong, A. Johnson, Milner, Balotelli, Agüero. Subs: Pantilimon, Zabaleta, Kolarov, Onuoha, Hargreaves, Nasri, Dzeko

Prediction : 2 - 2