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Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 343594 times)

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #90 on: September 10, 2011, 05:26:20 PM »
this was not the life sapping, soul destroying, blunt, impotent, car-crash performance of the last few seasons at the Brittania, this was a dominant, effort-full show of growing strength that just went that way on the day, in the freaky logic of the game of football, they got something from being on the back foot all the way.

Signs of life and progress from our Reds full blast today, do not be downhearted, these Redmen are going to be viscious and hungry at WHL after this, so just get a few bevvies in, get it out of the system, no fundamental cause for alarm, be positive, this was a freak of nature result. A victory at Spurs will demolish this and springboard us again, heads up Reds.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #91 on: September 10, 2011, 05:34:53 PM »
Dude, I  suspect a lot of it was down to tiredness from midweek games although it didn't seem to affect City or Chelsea.

Next weekend may be different with CL and Europa games midweek whereas we can have a rest.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #92 on: September 10, 2011, 07:24:47 PM »
Stoke are our new Birmingham City. We always seem to have to have a nemesis.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #93 on: September 10, 2011, 07:45:28 PM »
Dude, I  suspect a lot of it was down to tiredness from midweek games although it didn't seem to affect City or Chelsea.

Next weekend may be different with CL and Europa games midweek whereas we can have a rest.

many of stoke's lads will have been on international duty too, ASI.

no, we had plenty of possession, good domination of the game, plenty of good chances (tho not as many clear cut chances as our dominant level of possession should have produced).

maybe Stoke are our new nemesis, like Tes says.....but sadly we seem to have too many nemesises (plural?) in the premiership.

yes, we are a new side - with lots of new players yet to properly bed-in.  And that takes time.

but I still have the doubts that I have always had.....i.e.  a weak chink in our defence (Carra was done three years ago).......and Kenny is fine on a summer's day, when things start/progress well.  But when it comes to analysing an opposition pre-game, or especially when making changes during a game to rectify bad situations, kenny is all at sea.

we needed a clear cool head, like Moreless, to be brought on today.....but some bright spark sold him the other week.  Instead we had to bring on Carroll. 

another couple of results like this, and the title will be out of our reach for yet another year.



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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #94 on: September 10, 2011, 08:01:40 PM »
Stoke are our new Birmingham City. We always seem to have to have a nemesis.

It was never Brummies, it was always that fat fucktard Steve Bruce. It doesn't matter what team he manage we drop points be it Brummies, Wigan or Sunderland.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #95 on: September 10, 2011, 08:32:34 PM »
It was never Brummies, it was always that fat fucktard Steve Bruce. It doesn't matter what team he manage we drop points be it Brummies, Wigan or Sunderland.

Agree that Fathead was the ultimate annoyance, but our results against Brum hardly improved when McLeish took over.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #96 on: September 10, 2011, 08:36:57 PM »
another couple of results like this, and the title will be out of our reach for yet another year.

But we were never in it, dude. Too many new players, too many structural problems to solve after Rafa's mismanagement during his last 2 seasons. Yes we were a tad unlucky, yes the ref did his best to deny us what was right, but we need to score from the open chances we had. I read somewhere our possession rate throughout the game was 73 %. If this was a one-off I can live with it but too often during the past decade or so I've seen games like this. All of a sudden next weekend's game at WHL seems to be somewhat seasondefining.


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Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #97 on: September 10, 2011, 08:47:53 PM »
Rough justice today.

Soft penalty but it was a penalty none the less. I thought Carragher was unlucky not to get an initial foul in his favour because Walters barged into him. It doesnt excuse Carragher putting his arms around him though, and doing that gives the referee the option of calling for a penalty.

I think its far too early to say we have wasted money on players. We are only four games in, the team looks likes its gelling very well but we just dont seem to be getting the rub of the green that our performances have deserved. I know the saying goes you make your own luck, weve tried hard to do that, were the far better team today but bad decision making on our own players part and bad refereeing has cost us.

I also dont understand people criticising Stokes style of play. They are fourth in the league, have become a very hard team to beat and have a few very good players in their squad. I think what Tony Pulis has done is commendable and not many teams will go to the Britannia and get an easy game.

Positives ; the way the team played, their style, attitude and attacking intent, Adams corners

Negatives ; Charlie Adams insistance on trying to find the killer pass every time (needs to realise hes not aways expected to split defences), Hendersons poor decision making ( after his first attempt he should have laid the ball to Suarez instead he fluffed another two chances as did Adam), Skrtel randomly passed off balls without looking ( hes a goal for the opposition waiting to happen)

And finally I cant understand how teams roll over and die for united. Bolton may as well not have turned up.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 08:50:27 PM by Juan »

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #98 on: September 10, 2011, 08:52:15 PM »
But we were never in it, dude. Too many new players, too many structural problems to solve after Rafa's mismanagement during his last 2 seasons. Yes we were a tad unlucky, yes the ref did his best to deny us what was right, but we need to score from the open chances we had. I read somewhere our possession rate throughout the game was 73 %. If this was a one-off I can live with it but too often during the past decade or so I've seen games like this. All of a sudden next weekend's game at WHL seems to be somewhat seasondefining.

Martin, on the pitch, I think we have the resources in place to fight for the title this season.

yes, they have to bed-in.  yes, we have a weakness in Carragher.  yes, carroll is no alan shearer.

but across the pitch, we now have top notch players....suarez is a world beater.......reina is top drawer...agger is top drawer....downing looks like he has been a red all his life, top player.....enrique looks top drawer too.....adams is a great asset, kuyt is a top top player, etc, etc.

but the key problem that I see, is that the resources are not being deployed properly.  Kenny is in the spotlight here.  As long as Kenny can bully and dominate opposition with money/resources, then all is fine.  But when his starting eleven run into problems, he is all at sea.  I saw this same issue when he was managing at Liverpool first time round.  I saw it when he bossed at Blackburn.  He cannot turn things around.  It is a career long problem that he has had in the dugout.  He gets out-thought and cannot respond.

It is very frustrating, given the world class resources that we have on the pitch these days.

I will say it again.  I think we have the players to fight for the title.  My deep frustration is in their deployment. 
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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #99 on: September 10, 2011, 09:31:00 PM »
many of stoke's lads will have been on international duty too, ASI.
Really? I can't think of any.

Quote
no, we had plenty of possession, good domination of the game, plenty of good chances (tho not as many clear cut chances as our dominant level of possession should have produced).
We had 60%, probably more and they had 1 shot on target. That makes it as close as possible to parking the bus as you can get. We have always struggled against teams who do that. Even Rafa struggled so I don't blame Kenny.

Quote
maybe Stoke are our new nemesis, like Tes says.....but sadly we seem to have too many nemesises (plural?) in the premiership.
Probably. I can't think of any others. We just beat Arsenal at the Emirates to kill one nemesis and despatched Fulham last season who might be another.

Quote
yes, we are a new side - with lots of new players yet to properly bed-in.  And that takes time.
They looked well bedded in last home game against Bolton and also at Arsenal. I haven't seen the game yet so can't comment on what happened today.

Quote
but I still have the doubts that I have always had.....i.e.  a weak chink in our defence (Carra was done three years ago).......and Kenny is fine on a summer's day, when things start/progress well.  But when it comes to analysing an opposition pre-game, or especially when making changes during a game to rectify bad situations, kenny is all at sea.
I agree with the first part but not the second. Anyway, Rafa often put subs on who made no difference.

Quote
we needed a clear cool head, like Moreless, to be brought on today.....but some bright spark sold him the other week.  Instead we had to bring on Carroll. 
We have enough creativity in midfield with Adam and Suarez up front. They probably just had an off-day. Meireles had a decent debut but we always knew he was a good player. But he's gone now.

Quote
another couple of results like this, and the title will be out of our reach for yet another year.
We're 5th, 5 points off the leaders. I don't see us playing like that again and not getting something. Anyway, didn't John Henry say 4th was this season's target? The title was too big a jump.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #100 on: September 10, 2011, 09:46:43 PM »
This was part of the report from the Daily Mail...

"But Stoke manned the barricades and with Liverpool seemingly intent on going through the middle more often than not they made it easier for their opponents to crowd them out."

If we have wide men why didn't we play to their strengths are put in some crosses especially when Carroll came on? It sounds like we just played through a congested central section and met with a brick wall. That needs to change against teams who park the bus.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #101 on: September 11, 2011, 01:29:24 PM »
Martin, on the pitch, I think we have the resources in place to fight for the title this season.

yes, they have to bed-in.  yes, we have a weakness in Carragher.  yes, carroll is no alan shearer.

but across the pitch, we now have top notch players....suarez is a world beater.......reina is top drawer...agger is top drawer....downing looks like he has been a red all his life, top player.....enrique looks top drawer too.....adams is a great asset, kuyt is a top top player, etc, etc.

but the key problem that I see, is that the resources are not being deployed properly.  Kenny is in the spotlight here.  As long as Kenny can bully and dominate opposition with money/resources, then all is fine.  But when his starting eleven run into problems, he is all at sea.  I saw this same issue when he was managing at Liverpool first time round.  I saw it when he bossed at Blackburn.  He cannot turn things around.  It is a career long problem that he has had in the dugout.  He gets out-thought and cannot respond.

It is very frustrating, given the world class resources that we have on the pitch these days.

I will say it again.  I think we have the players to fight for the title.  My deep frustration is in their deployment.

I hear what you say dude, and I must say your post is quite worrying as I tend to agree with most of it. Kenny seems hellbent on playing Henderson and that's his call, of course. But how does it effect the team? I think playing Kuijt to the right and Carrol and Suarez upfront yesterday would've increased our chances dramatically. As it was, we became too one-dimensional in attack making it increasingly easy for an extremly defensive Stoke side to keep us in check. In that sense I totally agree with you. In a way I'm not sure Kenny knows his best starting XI much the same problem Rafa had. I think playing Henderson is costing us dearly in terms of cohesion and compusure. Give the lad a rest and let the team find good form, then he'll have a better setting to settle in.
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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #102 on: September 11, 2011, 02:41:22 PM »
Guess who will make way once Gerrard returns? Henderson almost certainly. And that date looks like next Sunday.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #103 on: September 11, 2011, 04:25:21 PM »
Guess who will make way once Gerrard returns? Henderson almost certainly. And that date looks like next Sunday.

Gerrad replacing Henderson won't solve our problem as Stevie most likely won't fancy playing RM. So what? Back to 4-5-1 with Lucas, Adam, Gerrard in the center, and Kuijt/Downing on the flanks? I'm not sure that's our most appropriate line up given the design of our squad. It'll never see Suarez and Carrol on the pitch together.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #104 on: September 11, 2011, 04:26:43 PM »
I hear what you say dude, and I must say your post is quite worrying as I tend to agree with most of it. Kenny seems hellbent on playing Henderson and that's his call, of course. But how does it effect the team? I think playing Kuijt to the right and Carrol and Suarez upfront yesterday would've increased our chances dramatically. As it was, we became too one-dimensional in attack making it increasingly easy for an extremly defensive Stoke side to keep us in check. In that sense I totally agree with you. In a way I'm not sure Kenny knows his best starting XI much the same problem Rafa had. I think playing Henderson is costing us dearly in terms of cohesion and compusure. Give the lad a rest and let the team find good form, then he'll have a better setting to settle in.

correct, Martin, we had total control of the park, but our attack was so one-dimensional.  It seemed uncoordinated, and there were too few guilt edged chances for such an amount of pressure.  Having said that, there were more than enough chances to have won the game.

We made some bad decisions at times - for goodness sake lads, look up before you spray a pass to nobody.  And often the neat short ball is the best ball.  And always give the ball to a man in a better position.  Henderson, when clean through, only had to lay the ball to his left and Suarez (or even Adam) would have had a tap in.  Instead he had three goes, and failed miserably with all.  But that will come with experience.  Henderson is a young lad who will develop.  He should be introduced to the team slowly.  But as ASI says, Gerrard will no doubt be back in the next week or two.

The other grumble I had, was far too often a ball gets knocked in to the box, and there is nobody on, or attacking the penalty spot.  WTF is that about. 

I am not a big fan of many of the refs.....but to be honest, I had no real gripes with the ref's performance yesterday.  Our claim of a penalty, was clearly accidental, ball to hand. 

Kenny is under the spotlight big-time and thus one sees him attacking the ref.  Predictable, I guess.  He's trying to deflect the spotlight onto someone else.

I said at the time of the games, that we should have whacked Sunderland by 3 or 4 goals....and Bolton were there for a mauling, 5 or 6 goal mauling (just like United did to them yesterday).  We laboured to a draw against Sunderland; and rather than hammer Bolton, despite all our dominance, we won by 3-1. 

We have to start turning our pressure into goals. 

Otherwise what we have witnessed in these opening games of the season, will become the norm.

We need a far better co-ordinated attack, we need (as ASI correctly says) to start properly using our width.  And my two pennies, Carra's position needs to be looked at.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 04:29:32 PM by the dude abides »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.