February 24, 2020, 04:47:30 PM

Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 282802 times)

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #105 on: September 11, 2011, 04:44:38 PM »
Gerrad replacing Henderson won't solve our problem as Stevie most likely won't fancy playing RM. So what? Back to 4-5-1 with Lucas, Adam, Gerrard in the center, and Kuijt/Downing on the flanks? I'm not sure that's our most appropriate line up given the design of our squad. It'll never see Suarez and Carrol on the pitch together.
What exactly is our problem Martin? I haven't seen much wrong this season. I don't see Gerrard's return as the answer to a problem. More a strengthening of the team. I'll leave Kenny to work out the formation.

No, I don't expect to see Carroll and Suarez on the field together. One wasn't bought with the other in mind. Suarez was bought to partner Torres. Carroll is a very different striker to Torres. I'd like Carroll to be given 90 mins to show what he can do but I suspect that's more likely to happen against Brighton than Spurs. At the moment, Suarez is undroppable.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #106 on: September 11, 2011, 06:22:24 PM »
We have to start turning our pressure into goals. 

Otherwise what we have witnessed in these opening games of the season, will become the norm.

We need a far better co-ordinated attack, we need (as ASI correctly says) to start properly using our width.  And my two pennies, Carra's position needs to be looked at.

Can you imagine having Robbie Fowler from his prime playing up front with Suarez. It would be devastating.

In relation to Kenny I think he has a fair complaint to make. He respects referees and refuses to publically criticise them or their linesmen. But they have cost Liverpool at least a point yesterday and two points against Sunderland. On the other hand the likes of Ferguson can call referees unfit, can state having a preferential referee, can consistently abuse the officials in post match interviews yet his team are generally always on the right side of officials decisions. They always have been. That Spurs game 5 or 6 years back when the ball was nearly a metre over the United line still infuriates me. I'd love to see foreign refs in the Premier League because there is definitely far too much inconsistency with the officials in England.

In relation to Carragher I agree to an extent. I dont think there is any point in putting him out to pasture just yet, he still has a huge amount to offer. I wouldnt have said that last season or the season before but I think his level of performance has increased under Kenny. But I do think if they are to eventually replace Carragher they should start the transition now. Coates needs some game time. United have been willing to throw Smalling and Jones in straight away, granted both had PL experience but realistically United are the benchmark.

And next out the door for me would be Skrtel. He is an average defender that is prone to error. Id replace him with someone capable of challenging Coates and Agger should they be deemed the future of our defence.

Johnson has apparently done his hamstring again. I cant see us ever getting an injury free season out of himself or Kelly.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #107 on: September 11, 2011, 08:33:10 PM »
interesting duo idea, Juan, i.e. Robbie and Suarez.  Though both are quite greedy and singleminded, so I wonder which one would get to be the alpha male/striker.  :)   Might end up like Owen and Robbie.

I think Syrtel is possibly ok, if he plays second fiddle in a CD partnership.  But he needs guidance.  He needs a top player beside him.  Coates, as you say, will need time.  Jones (the blackburn lad) was frustrating to miss out on.  Sorry to hear of Johnston's continual woes.  Though never ever good enough in my book.   I pray that Agger stays fit.  Top top player.

Yes, that ref error when Spurs played United should have seen those officials never ever again being allowed to officiate in top flight football. 

Foreign refs would be a good idea. 



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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #108 on: September 11, 2011, 10:15:00 PM »

Soft penalty but it was a penalty none the less. I thought Carragher was unlucky not to get an initial foul in his favour because Walters barged into him. It doesnt excuse Carragher putting his arms around him though, and doing that gives the referee the option of calling for a penalty.


Watched it a few times now and I still can't make my mind up whether Carra put is arm round the guy as he was stumbling as an instinctive response our whether it was deliberate. Carra is prone to manhandling a bit too much, buy I'm probably going to give him the benefit on this one. (Must be getting soft in my old age).

The first penalty shout was probably justified, the second was ball to hand, though watching the Championship highlights on BBC last there was a very similar situation that resulted in a penalty.

Still, we had two very good opportunities, so the penalty debate should have been irrelevant.

We are what we are at the moment - a team with a lot of new players, with a manager who's been in the seat for half a season, working with a lot of players who haven't played a more expansive, positive game. At least not for this club.

Fourth is still the only realistic target for this season. We still lack both the quality and experience of playing together as a squad for anything grander. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #109 on: September 12, 2011, 01:56:58 PM »
Saw the game...on dl...2 days after the shock at the result...

Well done stoke btw...cos you use what you have and you ride your luck...
Thought the Carra penalty was 50/50 but have seen em given and if you insist on wrapping your arms round a player then in this day and age they will take the opportunity to go down like they've been shot through the pineal gland...if you don't give them the opportunity then they can look like the diving tw*** that they are...nuff said...
coates needs to be introduced sharpish...spurs would be good...this guy played in the copa america final so he knows pressure...so why not?

It would also be nice if we could hit the ball at the net between the two posts...the difference between liverpool vs bolton and manure vs bolton was that every time a ball broke free then there was someone who hit the ball accurately at goal...i don;t know what it is....maybe we need some self help guru like anthony robbins to allow us to slow down, not snatch and have the confidence just to aim...then its up to the opposition keeper...
having said that i thought stoke defended well and their keeper did well...

as for the other ref's decisions...
a definate penalty to us in the first half with delap's handball...
clutching at straws for the suarez kick against the leg then the elbow..no penalty...

would like to see maxi introduced into the mix...he is creative and am concerned that we have got rid of aquilani, merieles and not playing our other creative player in maxi...you need a creative spark in midfield...
all great midfields have someone who does something unexpected...
Henderson is obviously filling in for gerrard...if they swap every now and then with jordan learning from his elder all well and good...
enrique and downing played well again....lucas did his thing...but our midfield still needs that sweet something...

follow the rafa way on subs, i think you'll find he was the best substitution maker of ANY of the liverpool managers...and he always changed it around at the 60-65 minute stage...

the result might have been an anomaly....but we don't want it turning into habit...


 

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #110 on: September 12, 2011, 05:32:19 PM »
We are what we are at the moment - a team with a lot of new players, with a manager who's been in the seat for half a season, working with a lot of players who haven't played a more expansive, positive game. At least not for this club.

Fourth is still the only realistic target for this season. We still lack both the quality and experience of playing together as a squad for anything grander.

Couldnt agree more Tes.

During the summer most of us agreed it was going to take more than one or two transfer windows to fix the problems at hand. In fairness to Kenny and Comolli they probably did 3 transfer windows work this summer. We will continue to edge forward. Getting to 5th or 6th in the league is the easy part, making 4th 3rd and beyond is where I see it being slow progress. Thats why Im also surprised at the levels of criticism towards some of the new players already. For me the difference between the squad of players and the football being played between this season and last is huge. The teams still not the finished article though so I think it needs to be given time and support. If a player flops they flop but fans should give the players at least a chance to be a success. By that I mean at least a full season.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #111 on: September 12, 2011, 05:49:45 PM »
Saw the game...on dl...2 days after the shock at the result...

Well done stoke btw...cos you use what you have and you ride your luck...
Thought the Carra penalty was 50/50 but have seen em given and if you insist on wrapping your arms round a player then in this day and age they will take the opportunity to go down like they've been shot through the pineal gland...if you don't give them the opportunity then they can look like the diving tw*** that they are...nuff said...
coates needs to be introduced sharpish...spurs would be good...this guy played in the copa america final so he knows pressure...so why not?

It would also be nice if we could hit the ball at the net between the two posts...the difference between liverpool vs bolton and manure vs bolton was that every time a ball broke free then there was someone who hit the ball accurately at goal...i don;t know what it is....maybe we need some self help guru like anthony robbins to allow us to slow down, not snatch and have the confidence just to aim...then its up to the opposition keeper...
having said that i thought stoke defended well and their keeper did well...

as for the other ref's decisions...
a definate penalty to us in the first half with delap's handball...
clutching at straws for the suarez kick against the leg then the elbow..no penalty...

would like to see maxi introduced into the mix...he is creative and am concerned that we have got rid of aquilani, merieles and not playing our other creative player in maxi...you need a creative spark in midfield...
all great midfields have someone who does something unexpected...
Henderson is obviously filling in for gerrard...if they swap every now and then with jordan learning from his elder all well and good...
enrique and downing played well again....lucas did his thing...but our midfield still needs that sweet something...

follow the rafa way on subs, i think you'll find he was the best substitution maker of ANY of the liverpool managers...and he always changed it around at the 60-65 minute stage...

the result might have been an anomaly....but we don't want it turning into habit...

Agreed Bart would like to see Maxi still in the mix. He was one of the most improved performers under Kenny with two hat tricks in close succession. Its a bit unfair on him to be nudged out of the picture just because we have some new players on board. If anything it might not have been a bad idea to make one or two of the new players fight for their place instead of being automatic starters. Whatever the case Maxis deserved more runs that hes received so far.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #112 on: September 12, 2011, 07:35:14 PM »

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #113 on: September 12, 2011, 08:01:25 PM »
Nine months on from Torres transfer to Chelsea I dont think I could have wished for a better outcome for the striker.

I revelled the 18 games it took him to score his first goal, I gloated at his overall poor showing for Chelsea last season. I genuinely thought with a preseason under his belt it would all change for Nando and even tipped him to be top scorer. Instead this season with the exception of one game he has been poor, especially by the high standards he set at Liverpool. So maybe when people claimed last season that Torres had stopped trying at LFC he was actually washed up.

I dont like to see top players like Torres struggle but the manner in which he left us I cant help but smile at seeing him struggle. I still wonder what if he and Suarez were up front for us. Potentially lethal.  Anyway AVB confirmed today that Torres was in fact dropped on saturday. Now the club are also looking into comments Torres made in an interview in Spain. Torres claimed Chelseas midfield is old and slow. The striker said the comments were misinterpreted but it hasnt stopped AVB looking for the official tape of the interview. Clearly he doesnt trust torres on or off the pitch. Not exactly a good start to the pairs relationship. With everything thats happened Im sure Torres must regret walking out on LFC now. If things continue for the player in this vein I'd love to see Kenny make a cheeky loan bid for him in January, obviously with no actual intention of taking the player back to the club. Torres must look at LFC and realise Suarez would have been a dream partner compared to what he has at Chelsea. He went to win things but as I see it LFC have almost as good a chance to pick up silverware this season as Chelsea do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14887120.stm

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #114 on: September 12, 2011, 09:45:31 PM »
Sorry Guys, I thought the forum was finished!! Can't link to it from the homepage...

Anyway, yeah, I agree with Dude going back a few points and I was ranting about it on the final
day of the Window... Had Meireles been on the pitch for Hendersons triple miss, it was in the back
of the net first-time no doubt in my mind (I can actually see him scoring it!!).

I'm not blaming Henderson, he still had the presence of mind to lay it off to Adam (which was good,
imo). Anyway, once we sold Meireles, as I said before, we're in a dogfight for 4th, imo. Which I think
fits in with the owners expectations i.e. get champions league and reduce the wage bill. I just think
that we're short one player in the centre to provide the right squad balance and Meireles fitted that role
perfectly... creative, experienced, an international, can score goals, play the big games, make a difference
 etc.. I expect Stevie G to make a big difference when he gets back but, he'd need to be fit (and on fire)
for the entire season for us to trouble the top 2 (Doubt, he has the legs to do it so consistently).

I kindof disagree with Dude about the subs though, imo it made sense to bring on Carroll and Bellers.
It didn't work...ok, no problem.

To be fair to Carra on the peno, I thought he was barged initially by the player but after that it was car-crash defending
(no complaints!) and some of his hoof-ball stuff was painful viewing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/p058z9a3o466Lmrx2H3Q

Some thoughtful bloke over at the Guardian also shows that our performance in terms of successful passes
was much improved BUT we gave the ball away roughly the same amount of times as the last time we played
them (Least I think that's what the 2 diagrams say? :D ):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/99m78wTBi33424r76zR6

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #115 on: September 12, 2011, 11:01:04 PM »
I kindof disagree with Dude about the subs though, imo it made sense to bring on Carroll and Bellers.
It didn't work...ok, no problem.

no disagreement there, Ed.

in the absence of Moreless, Carroll and Bellamy would have been my two subs too.

my issue is with Kenny's career long inability to turn games around, both tactically and with his subs.   Why bring on the two subs at once in games.  Subs should be used with precision, and be deployed like as in chess match.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 11:03:01 PM by the dude abides »
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There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #116 on: September 13, 2011, 12:00:58 AM »
in the absence of Moreless, Carroll and Bellamy would have been my two subs too.

my issue is with Kenny's career long inability to turn games around, both tactically and with his subs.   Why bring on the two subs at once in games.  Subs should be used with precision, and be deployed like as in chess match.
I agree, I'd liked to have seen Carroll a bit earlier....The thing about Suarez is that he appears to be everywhere
but in the centre, so who exactly are Downing or Henderson supposed to be crossing it in to??? or Adam from midfield?
again even Carra or Skrtel knocking long balls up field to who?? Sure, Suarez will run the channels and drag a defender
or two with him but that wasn't really working for us against Stoke. Without a creative guy in midfield a lot of the team
has been built around having Carroll on the pitch.

I think Bellamy will be used in the last ten minutes to give us a bit of energy up front....unfortunately it smacked
of desperation when plan A hadn't worked and given the amount of time Maxi has been with us, I was surprised
that he felt Stoke was the place to try out the Carroll/Bellamy partnership though I do see the logic behind it (it's a bit
similar to the first game when we saw all the new faces at once!).

Hopefully, Gerrard coming back will help Carroll and give us the time we need to figure out what to do with all
the chess pieces because I'm still optimistic about some of those possibilities.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #117 on: September 13, 2011, 12:12:11 AM »
oh you;re right, Ed..........it is organised chaos.

everybody wanders about, and there are clear issues of who is supposed t obe where and doing what.

I gave up ranting about crosses floating in to empty penalty spots.  Our lads seem to run to the front third of the box. 

I am delighted with the resources that we have.  And Kenny is definitely a top 4 manager.  But it is frustrating watching the lack of cohesion.  It's early days, but I have reservations about the dugout.   I often see kamikaze, I do not see precision. 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #118 on: September 13, 2011, 01:41:39 AM »
I often see kamikaze, I do not see precision. 
I created this chalkboard myself to highlight that point...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/1T3X3WGDu99kF1lR60VH

For me that's absolutely shocking from Adam! Is he not supposed to be the passer in the team?
24 unsuccessful passes, 16 from open play!

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #119 on: September 13, 2011, 12:07:16 PM »
that's a scary chalkboard, Ed.

so many passes from Adam went astray.  And I noted that it was after going behind, that we lost our composure.  Our players then attacked Stoke, as opposed to our team attacking Stoke.   When United go behind, their attacks become even more focussed......ours get more scatter-gun approach.  When United fall behind, they get out the sniper rifle.  When we fall behind, we get out the shotgun and buckshot.

It was not just Adam who was misfiring passes.  Others were doing it too.  People have to look up and be aware of what is on around them.  A player has to be aware, even before the ball arrives, as to what is happening around him. 

I saw selfishness on the pitch.  Suarez can be selfish.  I fear that selfishness is maybe making others do the same.  In the triple Henderson shot incident - Henderson could (and probably should) have laid the ball left to Suarez.  Adam could have done the same.  Neither man was prepared to pass.   

The Liverpool dynasty was built on selfless performances.....giving the ball to the man in the better position (a sea of red).

In the captain marvel era, many have most likely forgotten this basic tenet.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.