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Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 282287 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #195 on: September 24, 2011, 04:54:15 PM »
When were playing with a more fluid formation at the end of last season it certainly looked promising, but now we seem to be more rigid and have lost all that fluidity and fluency we were starting to look like we were developing.
It's starting to look a bit like Dalglish's Newcastle.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #196 on: September 24, 2011, 04:58:24 PM »
Dude,

I'm not watching. I'm listening on BBC Radio. So I don't know who (if anyone) was culpable for the goal. I do get annoyed when Kuyt is dropped because he's one of our more influential players.

Anyway, we've won 2-1 but not the perfomance I was hoping for. I suppose Kenny is being very careful with Gerrard but I think he could have played 45 mins today.

ASI, pure chaos, we were hanging on across parts of that second half.

wolves should have played 4-4-2 from the start...because when he changed to 4-4-2 in the second half, they caused us loads of problems.

I think Kenny should step aside ASAP.   

His role, as I have always said, should have been Worldwide Ambassador for the club - like the bobby charlton role at united.


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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #197 on: September 24, 2011, 05:03:26 PM »
When were playing with a more fluid formation at the end of last season it certainly looked promising, but now we seem to be more rigid and have lost all that fluidity and fluency we were starting to look like we were developing.
It's starting to look a bit like Dalglish's Newcastle.

and Dalglish's Blackburn (remember they were an awful team to watch too - with Batty in the middle).

Kenny doesn't have it - sorry to say that, because I love the bloke.  But truthfully, he never did have it. 

The key aspect in a team is balance.  Kenny never mastered that. 

Nor has he ever been a team builder.  He doesn't have the skill.

Hell, from the first game on, I saw all sorts of issues - some major, but loads of minor ones too.  And none of these issues ever get dealt with.

Some day I might make a post listing all the quibbles (many would be easy to fix, with a word in the ear).
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #198 on: September 24, 2011, 05:18:24 PM »
The problem, Dude, remains the same as it did last January and in the Summer. Who is available?

Off the top of my head I can only really think of Ancellotti. I know there's another name you'll put forward, but I think that would be just too divisive at the moment.

Still, we've halted the losing run and we're in touch with fourth.

What's Roy Evans doing nowadays? Maybe another old, experienced head could help Kenny. Evans' team were a joy to watch going forward, though equally poor defensively.
We need to drop the apparent 4-4-2 and go back to post January and try to pick up where we left off last, with the exception of the last two games.
Surely Maxi deserves consideration now.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #199 on: September 24, 2011, 05:56:00 PM »
ASI, pure chaos, we were hanging on across parts of that second half.

wolves should have played 4-4-2 from the start...because when he changed to 4-4-2 in the second half, they caused us loads of problems.

I think Kenny should step aside ASAP.   

His role, as I have always said, should have been Worldwide Ambassador for the club - like the bobby charlton role at united.

 :o Aren't you overreacting a bit Dude? Surely if he never had the skills we wouldn't have recovered so well last season?

It's never going to happen until this season is over so let's see how we get on against sterner opposition in the next 2 games.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #200 on: September 24, 2011, 05:58:20 PM »
The problem, Dude, remains the same as it did last January and in the Summer. Who is available?

Off the top of my head I can only really think of Ancellotti. I know there's another name you'll put forward, but I think that would be just too divisive at the moment.

Still, we've halted the losing run and we're in touch with fourth.

What's Roy Evans doing nowadays? Maybe another old, experienced head could help Kenny. Evans' team were a joy to watch going forward, though equally poor defensively.
We need to drop the apparent 4-4-2 and go back to post January and try to pick up where we left off last, with the exception of the last two games.
Surely Maxi deserves consideration now.

funny you should mention Roy Evans.  I said it many times, that Roy would be the best of that old generation. Indeed, I often wondered why his name was never mentioned.....must have been hurtful for Roy, not to have ever even got a mention among fans, and in the media.  The Kenny media circus, this past 18 months, has overshadowed everything/one else.
 
You know my thinking - Rafa would be my first choice (with Kenny as club ambassador).  But he would need to be given firm and private reminders beforehand - to keep out of club politics.
 
Yes, Maxi should be playing.  Mereless should never have been sold.  Stunning stupidity.  And I never believed the club line on that issue.
 
I'd look at my best team.....and Carroll would not be in it.  But Kenny will not have the courage I bet, to do it the Liverpool Way and play his best team.  The politics of not looking a 35 million quid fool by not deploying Carroll from the start of games, will be too much for Kenny. 
 
And Kenny is not big enough to do it the Liverpool Way re Carragher.  Jamie is three years past his sell by date.....and yet Kenny refuses to play his strongest team.  He insists on Carra being in his defence (despite costly mistakes in nearly every game - bolton, stoke, brighton.  We have to play far far too deep - and that is primarily due to Carra's lack of speed. 
 
Kenny is not doing it the Liverpool Way.  He talks the talk, but is found wanting when it comes to doing the walk.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 05:59:45 PM by the dude abides »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #201 on: September 24, 2011, 06:08:17 PM »
:o Aren't you overreacting a bit Dude? Surely if he never had the skills we wouldn't have recovered so well last season?

It's never going to happen until this season is over so let's see how we get on against sterner opposition in the next 2 games.

ASI, it's one thing being a top 4 or top 6 manager, it;s quite another competing with the Fergies of this world for titles.

To win titles, we have to turn over teams like sunderland, stoke and wolves with plenty to spare.  We ar enot doing that.  I have no issues with patience to bed in players.  but this is not about bedding in...this is about chaos.  There is no rhyme nor reason to our play.  It is a blitzkreig of chaos.   For sections of the second half, Wolves had us backed into our own box.....carroll was even having to help in the 6 yard box.  In the offence, we were a toothless tiger.  At one point, we had a break on - four reds against a single wolf....and guess what, we fecked it up (as usual).

this time last year, I said repeatedly that Kenny was not the answer - fine for a caretaker, but nothing more.

I saw enough of him first time round at anfield...I saw enough of his disjointed blackburn team....and I saw enough of his clumsy ill-fitting unbalanced newcastle side.  Kenny is not good enough. 

We do not need another 5 year plan.  We have a  top group of players already.  We need a top notch boss in the dugout to bring some organisation to this chaos.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #202 on: September 24, 2011, 08:48:22 PM »
Thank God it was Wolves or we'd lost a 3rd successive game no thanks to yet another confusing and spurious starting line-up. The team that started today will need something really extraordinary to get anything from the two coming games.

Fair enough if Kenny's playing Henderson and Carrol for future rewards, but couldn't he be more open about it? We were outplayed for long periods of game, panicking, struggling to string 3 passes together. We look as disjointed and confused as we ever did under GH, Rafa and Hodgson. Carrol looks like a donkey, Henderson like a puppy and Downing like a parrot. I don't mean to be condescending but it's hard to put it any other way. It must be really frustrating for Kuijt and Bellamy to be denied a start at the expense of poorer players who doesn't perform regardless of the number of opportunities. THAT will not make the squad gel over time, quite the other way round. We're as much a one-man team as we ever were. There's no team in Suarez. He can only win us so many games. Also, Carra and Skrtel are criminally poor and needs replacing ASAP.

This time Kenny got away, he won't do it against the Blues and the Mancs if he pick his team as badly as he did the last 2 games.  Pleased with the points, hardly so with a scrappy and disjointed performance at home against a side who struggled for relegation less than 5 months ago.

Happy to see Gerrard back. Always thrilling to watch Suarez and Enrique had another solid game (no gelling time required there apparently).
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 08:51:21 PM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #203 on: September 24, 2011, 09:00:16 PM »
Not a good performance. The game was far too open, we didnt close it out when we had the chances to do so. I still have every faith Kenny knows what hes doing and it will only be a matter of time before we click. Six games in and im satisfied with what im seeing. Its nowhere near our potential but who peaks in september. I dont think the table makes for bad reading.

1   Man Utd   6   16
2   Man City   6   16
3   Chelsea   6   13
4   Newcastle   6   12
5   Liverpool   6   10

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #204 on: September 24, 2011, 11:04:22 PM »
ASI, it's one thing being a top 4 or top 6 manager, it;s quite another competing with the Fergies of this world for titles.
Dude, for this season the owners wanted to finish in the top 4 so I'm happy if we do that. No-one's talking about competing for the title.

Quote
To win titles, we have to turn over teams like sunderland, stoke and wolves with plenty to spare.  We ar enot doing that.  I have no issues with patience to bed in players.  but this is not about bedding in...this is about chaos.  There is no rhyme nor reason to our play.  It is a blitzkreig of chaos.   For sections of the second half, Wolves had us backed into our own box.....carroll was even having to help in the 6 yard box.  In the offence, we were a toothless tiger.  At one point, we had a break on - four reds against a single wolf....and guess what, we fecked it up (as usual).
Actually we don't need to turn them over. We just need the 3 pts. Stoke are no pushover as today proved. And if I remember correctly Rush and Torres used to help out defending so I don't have a problem with that. I haven't seen the game yet and even highlights won't show the chaos as you describe it.

Actually, after a horrendous peformance last Sunday I'm just pleased the players showed enough spirit and determination to win today when their confidence must have been low and the pressure substantial.

Quote
this time last year, I said repeatedly that Kenny was not the answer - fine for a caretaker, but nothing more.

I saw enough of him first time round at anfield...I saw enough of his disjointed blackburn team....and I saw enough of his clumsy ill-fitting unbalanced newcastle side.  Kenny is not good enough. 

We do not need another 5 year plan.  We have a  top group of players already.  We need a top notch boss in the dugout to bring some organisation to this chaos.
We're all entitled to our opinions. Yours really surprises me. I'm prepared to give the guy a reasonable spell to prove his worth. Surely THAT's the Liverpool Way. Not to dismiss someone who has a win % of over 60% since he joined last Jan.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #205 on: September 24, 2011, 11:19:16 PM »
Very Happy with the result today and there was enough in the performance
to suggest improvement to come down the line!

My big problem was starting with Hendersson on the right...Unless I'm missing something
he gave us very little imo. I don't necessarily have a problem with the player, by all accounts
the right is NOT his position. I've said it before about the Spurs game and it's Liverpool 101
when we don't have possession we need to harry and pressure the opposition! With Kelly just
back and Jarvis giving him a good contest down the left it F****d up our whole balance because
Lucas had to keep coming across to help Kelly, leaving gaps in the centre.

Straight away when Kuyt came on he was in the thick of it getting stuck in upfield! Scratching my
head and almost tearing my hair out over this one!

Anyway, lots of positives, imo, delighted to see Stevie G back (sorry, Dude, we really need him at
the mo!). Our strength down the left is also very impressive. Carroll FINALLY looked like he's found
some energy! 

It's not perfect, we started poorly again (giving away a lot of stupid free kicks). If we can just be solid
and grind out a few results over the next couple of games, I'm happy enough. Hopefully, Carra can get
some sort of rhythm going (he'll say different but, at his age, he must dread the start of each new season)
and if not we can make up for it with some devastating attacking!
 

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #206 on: September 24, 2011, 11:41:53 PM »
I've just watched highlights on MoTD and I thought we looked okay compared to the shambles of last weekend. Suarez was close to a tap in from a Carroll cross in the 1st half and was denied a second with a briliant point-blank save in the second. Carroll hit the post with a good header and if both those chances had gone in it would have been 4-1. Wolves may have had a lot of possession in the 2nd half but they don't seem to have worried Pepe apart from the one goal.

On such small differences games can look difficult or a walk in the park. Happy with Carroll today and Suarez scoring was another positive.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #207 on: September 24, 2011, 11:53:48 PM »
I'm prepared to give the guy a reasonable spell to prove his worth. Surely THAT's the Liverpool Way. Not to dismiss someone who has a win % of over 60% since he joined last Jan.

I was reading this weekend that Kenny's win record, since his return, is just over 53 percent.  Rafa's was 55 percent and we sacked him.

ASI, I know enough about Kenny's record first time round, his time at Blackburn, and his time at Newcastle.  And I predicted this time last year, the likely outcome should he be appointed to the hotseat. 

The bloke (and as a player and a decent human being I love him dearly) is just not good enough.  He cannot change games.  He cannot create balanced teams.  He cannot build teams.  His short term success was based on having Paisley at his side for the first two years at Anfield....and being able to dominate the market with Jack Walker's money, when at Blackburn.    On an even playing field, he is average at best.

If we want to finish top 6, then 112 million quid might be enough for Kenny to realise that ambition.  But I have to imagine our owners will not be content with that return.



In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #208 on: September 25, 2011, 02:27:33 AM »
Dude you are doing Kenny a disservice in relation to his first spell as Liverpool manager and in relation to his time at Blackburn. He may have inherited a very good team at Liverpool in the eighties but he also made a huge contribution as manager. He rejuvinated the team by signing the likes of Aldridge, Beardsley and Barnes. He was a born winner, had it not been for the stress of Hilsborough we would probably be looking toward title number 30 now. The way you undermine his managerial achievements at the club is shocking. Was Joe Fagan a bad manager just because he inherited Paisleys side but went on to win trophies?

Its kind of like your issue with Gerrard. Because Gerrards a Kop idol , because you dont like him as a person off the field you discredit the fact that he has been the heartbeat of Liverpool for the best part of 10 years now. You deny what hes done for the club. In the same way its almost as if because Kenny is still so reveered to the point he can do no wrong with some fans that you refuse to give him any kudos. Hes in the job 9 months, what more can you ask for. I accept you have your opinions on what you believe is his lack of tactical nous but personally I think you have been too rash in coming to your conclusion on the man. What hope has any manager got when fans turn previous managerial successes into negatives against them.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #209 on: September 25, 2011, 03:50:31 AM »
Agreed, Juan...Dalglish is there to get us 4th. Back in the Champions League is the
NUMBER 1 PRIORITY!! Spurs and Arsenal are our main rivals this season and it's
important, imo, not to lose sight of this.

A cup is certainly possible & that's why we also need to take shine-a-light like the Carling thing
seriously (so, hey, it was a good week in both these respects after the set-back at Spurs!)

Sure maybe if we had a bit more depth and experience we could realistically talk about
the title.

I'm not saying I slavishly agree with everything KD does...selling Meireles cost us valuable points
and the persistence with starting Henderson in place of Kuyt is plain baffling imo. Gerrard is
back now and that will hopefully help solve both those issues.

On the plus side, the left side is looking good at mo with Enrique & Downing and Carroll today
looked to have turned a corner, meantime Suarez is a gem. Adam & Henderson are works in progress
and that is to be expected. Belllamy may gives us something extra as well, (Young Coates is waiting
in the wings to bolster the options in the centre) So decisions have been taken and that's what it's
about at this point of the rebuild.

The team isn't perfect but is definitely possible to look up and see progress and when I see Lucas
track back the length of the pitch in the 92nd minute and break up an attack Ican't help but
be optimistic about things!

Glass half full!
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 03:54:52 AM by Ed »