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Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 344146 times)

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #255 on: October 14, 2011, 08:04:09 PM »
On a personal note i'd like to thank Rafa for a comment he made yesterday on radio merseyside...
Manchester United have been successful because of MONEY....
At the inception of the Premier league Manure made a bunch of money on stocks and shares when selling their brand...that's it...
Fergie may have moaned about the money from Jack Walker to get the championship with blackburn...but when looking at the amount spent kenny won and fergie lost...
when chelsea outspent manure after 2005...fergie lost out...
throughout all those other years manure had the money...they bought 30 mil players here...remember veron and taibi?? good money spent there...

i do have a modicum of respect for fergie but i'm sick to death of all this blind adoration that everyone is adopting at the moment...

he's lasted because he's had money to spend and he's outspent everyone else since 1992...

good one rafa

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #256 on: October 14, 2011, 08:32:46 PM »
Money helps, massively, but how it's spent decides whether it's an advantage or not. Taggart always moans when an equalising factor appears. It would have been interesting to see if he could have been as successful if his resources were more on a par with the competition. He's benefitted massively from having a farsighted board supplying him with the finances to be 'competative'.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #257 on: October 15, 2011, 12:22:50 AM »
Dunno, big decisions for KD! I don't think Lucas got a game against Costa Rica
but he's in the squad for Mexico on Wednesday...

I think we use Suarez too much as it is and am worried we'll pay for it down the
line...

With a lunchtime kick-off at home on the Saturday, I would have no arguments
with Carroll starting and us demonstrating the depth of the squad....Spearing,
Gerrard & Adam in the centre?

IMO, we need to think about the whole season and boll***s to this gung-ho
nonsense! Obviously, I want us to beat the Mancs, just I'd settle for 1- 0 &
think we should have the depth to do it without overtaxing 2 of our most
valuable players so erly in the season?

I see your point Ed but its for games like these that the likes of Suarez sign for Liverpool. If hes fit he has to start tomorrow. Start leaving him on the bench for important games like this and he will be off to Spain in no time. Look at Barca, they are very slow to rest players often. They dont wrap Messi in cotton wool or continuously substitute him. The PL is more physical but if you start worrying about injuries and resting players in October the chances of winning anything are slim. On the other hand if a player has a niggle or is tired then you dont risk them but until such a time we need to play our strongest available team in the league.

Also even though Kenny wont admit it this game is of greater importance to us than it is to United. Bragging rights aside if we were to lose then we're already 9 points off United, potentially 9, 6 off City and Chelsea and 5 off Spurs if they win tomorrow along with their game in hand.  Early days but not ideal to be chasing teams so early. So all in all I agree with Tes, I would prefer to start the likes of Suarez and Gerrard for that matter and take them off if they tire in the second half.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #258 on: October 15, 2011, 12:40:30 AM »
As for the result itself unfortunatley Im a big believer in the law of averages and all that. The simple fact that we have beaten United on the last 3 occasions at Anfield I think they will nick a point tomorrow and it will probably end 1-1. Hope Im wrong.

Who knows what team Kenny will pick. Does he put Carroll upfront to act as a handful or does he play Gerrard off Suarez. Kuyt could also be a starter. Id love to see Bellamy, Suarez, Gerrard, Downing and Kuyt in the starting line-up. What formation I dont know but it sure would be attack minded. Heres how i actually see us lining out;

                          Reina

Kelly     Carragher        Skrtel      Enrique

Kuyt        Adam            Lucas   Downing

                       Gerrard

                       Suarez

Subs;
Doni
Johnson
Coates
Henderson
Spearing
Bellamy
Carroll

As long as Johnson doesnt start right back hopefully our defense can hold out. These days Carragher and Skrtel are shaky enough without throwing 'I cant defend even though Im a defender' Glen Johnson into the mix.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #259 on: October 15, 2011, 12:51:51 AM »
I forgot about Agger! Not sure if hes back fit or had any international game time. If he has relegate Skrtel to the bench where the amount of damage he can inflict on his own team  is limited.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #260 on: October 15, 2011, 02:58:48 AM »
I see your point Ed but its for games like these that the likes of Suarez sign for Liverpool. If hes fit he has to start tomorrow. Start leaving him on the bench for important games like this and he will be off to Spain in no time. Look at Barca, they are very slow to rest players often. They dont wrap Messi in cotton wool or continuously substitute him. The PL is more physical but if you start worrying about injuries and resting players in October the chances of winning anything are slim. On the other hand if a player has a niggle or is tired then you dont risk them but until such a time we need to play our strongest available team in the league.

Also even though Kenny wont admit it this game is of greater importance to us than it is to United. Bragging rights aside if we were to lose then we're already 9 points off United, potentially 9, 6 off City and Chelsea and 5 off Spurs if they win tomorrow along with their game in hand.  Early days but not ideal to be chasing teams so early. So all in all I agree with Tes, I would prefer to start the likes of Suarez and Gerrard for that matter and take them off if they tire in the second half.

LOL, Yeah, have to agree with you 100%.

Originally, I thought the Wednesday games were Wednesday evening and not around 4 am in the morning
and considered the timeframe to be too short.

My rant came out of a feeling that beating United (though it always feels great!) is of no use if
they go on to win the league, anyway, each year (That's an Everton mentality!).

I do fear that we are using Suarez way too much though (c'mon, playing him in the Carling cup
demonstrates how desperate we are for silverware this season, imo). What I'm saying is, I don't
want to see a repeat of the Torres situation where Rafa overplayed him. Furthermore, I think that we
are too reliant on him at the moment and again, imo, that's just repeating the mistakes of old (one-man
team etc..)

I think, for a number of reasons, we don't have the luxury yet to intelligently use the full squad but
if we're not careful, i think we'll damage our end of season chances if we continue to stress & strain
our best players e.g. unless they're Superhuman, I just can't see Suarez and Lucas (off the back of
the Copa) being 100% come April.   

Jayo, although he doesn't have the class or experience of Lucas, is a good utility guy to come in and
do a job in a 5 man midfield (and he also needs some game time!) & Carroll should, imo, be able to work
alone with Gerrard up front (especially with guys like Kuyt &/or Bellamy sniffing around).

Anyway, it's for another day this discussion, in the meantime.....time to bite the nails  :D


Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #261 on: October 15, 2011, 11:01:43 AM »
Awrite folks, been off for a while due to work and family committments. Being an out of country fan I look forward to what is for me by far the greatest game of the season. I feel the break did us good because it made it possible for us to get some distance to the derby win and recharge the batteries. Just like Juan tho, I am too a firm believer in the law of averages and for that reason alone I struggle to see us become the first team in the history of the PL to beat ManU for 4 consecutive fixtures.

My Manc mate reckons differently tho. He think that his team is low on form and given we play at home, the fact we're on an upward spiral gives us just the edge.

It's really tough to say what would be our best formation or line-up today. The back 4 is probably picking itself. The forward 6 is tougher tho. I don't think we can afford to start the game without Carrol today. In fact, I think this game could be his big break through. I also think Kuijt is a must start. Watched him play 72 minutes for Holland in their mid-week defeat to Sweden. Together with Van Persie he was by far the dominant force on the pitch and had they kept him on for the entire game I think Sweden would've dropped points. That's how good he was.

Suarez is a given and so is a fully fit Gerrard and probably Downing (only by lack of competition tho). It leaves KD with selection headache regarding who to play of Adam, Lucas or Henderson.

How to deploy the team? I don't know. For once I have a feeling a 4-4-2 formation won't be best for us, but rather a 4-2-1-3 formation with Suarez in the hole behind Carrol and Downing and Kuijt holding the flanks. Gerrard and Adam would be my preferred engineroom in front of the back 4.

All this in Swenglish. Come on you redmen!!!
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #262 on: October 15, 2011, 04:27:20 PM »
Unfortunately as predicted 1-1 in the end with Skrtel at fault for Uniteds equaliser.

Ferguson described this game as bigger than Real Barca during the week. As a Liverpool fan I would agree but unfortunately for all the hype for all the top talent on show this game is often pretty poor stuff as a footballing spectacle and today for me was one of those days.

Reina, Kelly, Carragher, Suarez aside I thought most other players went missing at times or just werent at the races. Gerrard got man of the match off Ray Wilkins. Aside from his goal I didnt see a man of the match perfromance from him. This isnt a criticism, im just being honest. I thought he did well for his first game back but he wasnt the best player on the pitch by a long shot.

Ed you definitely proved a point about players needing resting in October becuase from early in the game I thought Lucas looked a mile off the pace. He looked exhausted. Downing was quiet, Adam looked cumbersome. Kuyt was alright, unlucky not to score from downings cross but looked industriuos more than anything else. That United line up was there to be beaten but this team is yet to click.

We still need time to gel but we need to see more from the players. There are some early positives and negatives this season. Enrique looks more a 20 million player than he does 6. Kelly if he can stay fit can make that right back berth his own. Suarez is currently in a league of his own in the team. On the downside at the moment our centre midfield pairing of Lucas and Adam looks weak as does the pairing of Carragher and Skrtel.

8 games played 14 points and 5th in the table, an average start, no complaints from me considering the number of changes made during the summer. 4 points from the derby and united game is a decent return but now its time for the team and new players to push on a level and show us why Kenny has decided to bring them to the club in the first place.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #263 on: October 15, 2011, 06:46:49 PM »
I thought we played well today...it was one way traffic for the first half for our lads and was shocked to see a stat of 58% possession for manure...unless i read it wrong..

it's a pity that we didn't take advantage however of a very anaemic looking manu...
apart from a touch of class from chicarito...the rest of their stuff was desperate...

we miss merieles and we miss maxi...we can do something about the latter and swapping him for downing in the last 20 minutes can't be a bad thing surely?



Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #264 on: October 16, 2011, 12:41:10 AM »
Glad to get that one out of the way...

Strangely, think Fergie came looking for a draw,
That donkey Jones in midfield wtf?

Just shows, mentally, we're his Achilles heal.

Think our lads should take it as a compliment
and crack on now, notching some serious points
on the board!

Saturday, 22 October 2011
Barclays Premier League
Liverpool v Norwich, 17:30

Saturday, 29 October 2011
Barclays Premier League
West Brom v Liverpool, 17:30

Saturday, 5 November 2011
Barclays Premier League
Liverpool v Swansea, 15:00

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #265 on: October 16, 2011, 08:07:36 PM »
Our lack of ability to keep a clean sheet is costing us dear. Whilst you don't win matches with clean sheets alone, you don't lose them, and as with yesterday and against Sunderland, if you take the lead then a clean sheet does win you the game.

We miss the more technical players like Meireles and Maxi's lack of minutes is puzzling, unless Dalglish sees a problem in training or is looker to maintain continuity into the future by not selecting 'certain' older players.

Still, we weren't hanging on and the fact a draw feels like a defeat I guess could be described as a positive.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #266 on: October 17, 2011, 01:22:52 AM »
Our lack of ability to keep a clean sheet is costing us dear. Whilst you don't win matches with clean sheets alone, you don't lose them, and as with yesterday and against Sunderland, if you take the lead then a clean sheet does win you the game.
I think we've got 3 league games against (No disrespect...ok a little  :D) beatable opposition + a Carling
Cup game against Stoke (revenge!) to get things right. Then come 2 big games against Chelsea (been
stealthily impressive this season!) and City.

Hoping to see lots of progress over the next few weeks (Johnson & Agger back!), I mean sooner or later, imo, we have to stop using this word gelling and start seeing crosses into the box that are stuck in the back of the
net by Carroll (Enrique, Johnson, Adam, Downing all have crossing/passing ability, the whole team is set up for
this) and if it's not happening, I expect to see a plan B taking shape!

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #267 on: October 17, 2011, 10:03:52 PM »
........I mean sooner or later, imo, we have to stop using this word gelling..........

Good point, Ed. I think we have to give the squad a season for all of them to get used to each other, as we made a huge amount of changes and also for all the players to adapt to Dalglish and Clarke's tactics and way of doing things.

I know patience seems to be an eternal demand of us as fans but I see no other way.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #268 on: October 17, 2011, 10:11:46 PM »
A tad disappointed to be honest. I really really think they were there for the taking, given their quite shocking line-up. It is as if Fergie's decision to rest half his team gobsmacked us and we needed the better part of the opening 60 minutes to come up with a plan B. Really stupid goal to concede, but once again we got evidence how costly it is to play a mediocre CB-pairing in such a high-profile game. Also disappointed we couldn't convert any of our clear cut chances. On the upside of things they never managed to threaten us at all, which, in fairness was prolly down to the defensive line up Fergie stuck with.

Like Ed says it'll be interesting to see how we react to this in the upcoming 4-5 games.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #269 on: October 18, 2011, 09:19:05 PM »
A tad disappointed to be honest. I really really think they were there for the taking, given their quite shocking line-up. It is as if Fergie's decision to rest half his team gobsmacked us and we needed the better part of the opening 60 minutes to come up with a plan B. Really stupid goal to concede, but once again we got evidence how costly it is to play a mediocre CB-pairing in such a high-profile game. Also disappointed we couldn't convert any of our clear cut chances. On the upside of things they never managed to threaten us at all, which, in fairness was prolly down to the defensive line up Fergie stuck with.

Like Ed says it'll be interesting to see how we react to this in the upcoming 4-5 games.

Again it highlights the facts that if you don't convert your chances then it's imperative you make sure you stop the opposition from creating and or taking their's. Bottom line, we're therefore obviously not strong enough yet at either end.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.