February 26, 2020, 11:58:08 AM

Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 283358 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #375 on: December 05, 2011, 09:34:35 PM »
Spearing off for a clean tackle. That sums up the ref's attitude to any sort of 'tackle'. How do you stop your momentum dead once you've won the ball? Let's just ban physical contact of any sort and be done with it.

There was a higher tackle on Carroll in the first half that went totally unpunished.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #376 on: December 05, 2011, 09:37:38 PM »
Martin, you've got your wish for Henderson to be in the middle.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #377 on: December 05, 2011, 09:57:06 PM »
A tale of two goalkeepers and a soft ref.
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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #378 on: December 05, 2011, 09:58:04 PM »
Mad as hell at losing that game. Downing's shot tipped onto the post and then 2 mins later Johnson lets Murphy shoot.  :(

How the hell does a team who are 16th play like that?  >:(

But we are missing firepower up front. Need another striker in Jan. Carroll is a passenger and Suarez has dried up despite all his fancy turns and twists. How can you have the tightest defence and only be 7th? The lack of goals is the reason and that has to be addressed.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #379 on: December 05, 2011, 10:01:00 PM »
Yes the ref robbed us. It was a peno, it was a correct goal scored and it was not even a yellow. But still, with our best XI from the start I am convinced we'd won this game. Kenny doesn't have it and as much as I like the man I don't see him any more a big club manager than Roy. But most disturbing of all is that I, a ferkin armchair supporter from Sweden can tell what side we need to play to win games like this but he can't. Very disturbing indeed.
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Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #380 on: December 05, 2011, 10:04:25 PM »
I couldnt fault our efforts tonight. We will play far worse than we did tonight this season and still win.

I thought our passing was sharp, our movement and energy was good. We got cut open a bit in the first half but I thought we were doing much better in the second half in that regard until Spearing went off.

Harsh red card alright Tes. We didnt get any rub of the green. Suarez goal could have stood, Swcharzer made a top class save from Downing and Reina was unlucky to spill for their goal.

The only thing that tonight highlights is our need to find a finisher to play with Suarez up front.


Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #381 on: December 05, 2011, 10:11:15 PM »
Carroll is a passenger and Suarez has dried up despite all his fancy turns and twists. How can you have the tightest defence and only be 7th? The lack of goals is the reason and that has to be addressed.

I wouldnt call him a passenger ASI, I dont think thats fair. He is trying to play the quick tempoed game the team is playing but its just not suited to his style. That doesnt make Kennys job of deciding what to do with him any easier because it is an issue whether he wants to admit it or not.

As for Suarez for me he is a second striker that needs to be playing off a goalscorer. But I agree we need to buy another striker.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #382 on: December 05, 2011, 10:16:57 PM »
Kenny doesn't have it and as much as I like the man I don't see him any more a big club manager than Roy.

Ah thats a bit harsh Martin. I think the team is actually starting to play very well together. Okay the results arent exactly going our way every game but even watching tonights game I am finally seeing progress. We are by no means nearly the finished article but we are starting to play good football but are just lacking the cutting edge in front of goal. Adding a top quality goal scorer would solve alot of our problems and I also think the squad is alot better than you are giving it credit for.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #383 on: December 05, 2011, 11:24:28 PM »
Senderos committed 3 bookable offences, Adam, Carroll and Suarez yet stays on the pitch. Dempsey went over the top of ball after miscontrolling it on Henderson (I think it was) yet the ref barely speaks to him. Carroll got taken out thigh high just inside their half in the first half and the ref doesn't even talk to the player.

Johnson should have shown Murphy down the outside away from goal. Even if Murphy's left footed he can't beat Johnson for pace. You don't let him come inside on goal.

Spearing won the ball cleanly and firmly, even if your momentum carries you through it can only be a yellow. It's not like he went in over the ball, barely brushing the top of it and into the player with his tackling foot.

We definately lack goals, which is an option Maxi sometimes does give us. Andy Carroll simply can't move his feet quick enough and adjust to keep the movement going at pace. However we can't afford to sell him this Summer. His 'book value' (£35M divided by 5 means his value is reduced or amortised  by £7M a year) will still be £28M in the Summer, so Summer 2013 sees us lose potentially much less as his value is £21M. We don't lose on anything below £35M (at least not for accounting purposes). Do we wait that long though?

Who wants to guess the make up of our midfield for the next three games? The management have a tough task ahead. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #384 on: December 05, 2011, 11:24:54 PM »
I wouldnt call him a passenger ASI, I dont think thats fair. He is trying to play the quick tempoed game the team is playing but its just not suited to his style. That doesnt make Kennys job of deciding what to do with him any easier because it is an issue whether he wants to admit it or not.
Apart from his strike in the first half Juan I can't think of anything else he did. Have I missed something?

I feel Kenny is obliged to play him because of his price tag. That's not Andy's fault but this is a big bloke. 6ft 4in and 13+stone and he should be as hard to shift off the ball as Drogba is but he loses possession quite easily. There's no logical reason why Maxi shouldn't have played tonight. That's a mystery.

The Spearing card needs to be appealed because to send someone off when they got the ball and only fouled the player with a follow through is ridiculous. Henderson will now switch to central midfield and that will bring the best out of his talents although defensively it may make us weaker.

Reina and Johnson have to accept responsibility for their goal but that aside, I thought our defence was pretty solid.

I saw too many passes to players stood still tonight. I would have preferred a faster passing game at times. By the time we got to their penalty area they had too many players back.

Can't remember Johnson bombing down the right once tonight but Enrique did okay on the left. Fulham played well above their position but all is not lost. Our finishing has to improve but 13 attempts against the woodwork leads the league by a mile.

Haven't heard Kenny's interview. I'll look for it now.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #385 on: December 06, 2011, 01:44:40 AM »

The Spearing card needs to be appealed because to send someone off when they got the ball and only fouled the player with a follow through is ridiculous.

Seeing it again, in real time, confirms what I thought at the time. As Spearing goes in with his right foot and wins the ball (incidently he was also nearer the ball than his victim opponent, his standing foot seems to from under him, which is why it follows through in the way it did.

To launch yourself into a tackle either means both feet are launched together facing forward (toes skywards), or one foot leads (facing forward) and the other follows (toes pointed downwards). It's really, really difficult, if not impossible, to launch yourself with both sets of studs up but with one leg following through at the same angle as the first foot makes contact, but with your feet not together. Try it, but you'll need something soft to land on.  :D
Jay's left foot went from under him as his right foot struck the ball which is why his left foot came through at the same angle as his right foot had previously done.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #386 on: December 06, 2011, 03:24:01 PM »
Ah thats a bit harsh Martin. I think the team is actually starting to play very well together. Okay the results arent exactly going our way every game but even watching tonights game I am finally seeing progress. We are by no means nearly the finished article but we are starting to play good football but are just lacking the cutting edge in front of goal. Adding a top quality goal scorer would solve alot of our problems and I also think the squad is alot better than you are giving it credit for.

Juan, I'm not saying we're not playing well, I'm simply saying that we shouldn't confuse that with what could've been. I am absolutetly convinced we would've score at least one in the opening 30 minutes with Kuijt and Maxi on the pitch. It won't say in the books Fulham 1 - 0 Liverpool (+ they scored many chances), it will say 1-0 and that's what counts. This was the 3rd time, at least, this season where Kenny's line-up sceamed it was evident even before KO we'd struggle to get anything. His poor judgement is costing us dearly mate and if you can't see that I can't do anything about it. I wasn't lucky to post prior to KO we'd drop points, it was written all over based on that line up. Now THAT is a genuine problem. No 4th under Kenny I say and it won't be down to us being in a transitional phase, gelling new players or any other unacceptable excuse.
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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #387 on: December 06, 2011, 05:57:26 PM »
Tes, I take your point about why the ref decided he had to walk. This morning's paper had a photo of Jay with both feet off the ground which makes a defence difficult. I think we'll just have to bite the bullet on that one. I won't try it myself as 1) I'm too old and 2) the only soft thing I can land on is the lawn and as you can see from my sig it's a bit nippy out there!

Martin, I agree and disagree with two of your points. I agree that Maxi should have started. But I disagree that Kenny's judgement is flawed because we don't have access to all the info he does. There may have been compelling reasons why Maxi didn't play so I'm afraid that we'll just have to trust Kenny's judgement. Whether you agree with me on that is debatable.  ;D
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #388 on: December 06, 2011, 07:31:52 PM »
Martin, I agree and disagree with two of your points. I agree that Maxi should have started. But I disagree that Kenny's judgement is flawed because we don't have access to all the info he does. There may have been compelling reasons why Maxi didn't play so I'm afraid that we'll just have to trust Kenny's judgement. Whether you agree with me on that is debatable.  ;D

But it wasn't just Maxi. Kuijt is one of few players that click with Suarez. Downing, no matter how disappointing thus far, will always be a better left winger than Suarez.  Remember Stoke away? Yes we played well, very well indeed. Even The Independent had it we played better and created more chances than both ManU and Chelsea but got away with less. For some reason Kenny thought playing Henderson ahead of Kuijt was a wise move. Then you have the City game a couple of weeks ago. Even though at home, I can see the sense in starting the game with a 4-5-1 formation to see how it pans out. As it panned out City were there for the taking and had Kenny moved Kuijt upfront and switched to a 4-4-2 formation our chances to have won it would've increased greatly.

We play well people say and I agree we do. The problem is, the table doesn't lie and the reason we more and more look like a candidate for 6th or 7th is Kenny can't separate his best line-up from his bottom.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:40:37 PM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #389 on: December 06, 2011, 08:17:06 PM »
Going 4-4-2 would have let City back in the game. We simply don't have the midfielders to play 4-4-2 without bringing increased pressure on the back 4.

Maxi just seems destined to be dropped no matter how well or how many goals he scores. It's strange, as he's one of the main beneficiaries of the way we now play.

You'll definately get your chance to see Henderson in the middle for the next 3 games, Martin. It's a worry about how soft our centre will now be.

We need to find ourselves a player capable of scoring a few goals, be it a strike partner for Suarez, wide forward player or from midfield. We've had a lot of possession in most of the matches this season but our inability to get a goal return from that is killing us. Any team will have a spell of possession of their own in a match and it's proving more decisive than it should.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.