September 27, 2020, 09:06:57 PM

Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 344060 times)

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #405 on: December 07, 2011, 10:44:25 PM »
What's the point in beating Arsenal away just to field a weak side away and lose to Stoke? If producing results against the top sides were all that matter then the PL would consist of 6 or 7 teams. Thing is that it consist of 20 and it really doesn't matter how good your results are against the top sides if those results aren't matched by the results against the less good sides. It was written all over we'd get good results against City and Chelsea after drawing at HOME against NORWICH AND SWANSEA.
It's not just us who drops points against lesser teams. Arsenal have been doing it for years. Chelsea have done it this season. And years ago when Liverpool were champions they dropped points at home. It happens!

Quote
It's this inconsisency that's plagued the club for a decade we need to get rid of. Best way of ensuring that goal is to consistently play our best side. Kenny doesn't realise this hence we'll never reach top 4 under him. He may win us the ocassional mickey mouse cup to keep the nostalgic and emotional momentum but it won't alter the fact he ain't good enough to take this club to the next level. Again, the table doesn't lie!
You seem to be expecting Pld 38, won 38. You give the team no credit whatsoever for good away wins. It's about time you did!

I want you to name me what you consider our best 11 to be. I'll watch out for when that lineup plays and let's see what the result is.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #406 on: December 08, 2011, 04:06:19 PM »
This is, IMHO, our best starting line-up provided we play a midtable/bottom half side given the current injuries:

--------------------------------Reina----------------------------------

Kelly----------------Skrtel-----------Carra/Coates-----------Enrique

-------------------------------Agger-----------------------------------

-------Johnson--------------Adam---------------------Maxi/Downing

-------------------Suarez------------Kuijt/Bellars--------------------
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #407 on: December 08, 2011, 04:27:05 PM »
remember that our one top buy, Suarez, was earmarked by Liverpool before Dalglish and Comolli were appointed.  Indeed, Hodgson went over to Holland to watch him play during his time in charge.

the depressing thing is, we have actually gone backwards despite spending 90 million on the other lads this year.  Our best two acquisitions were frees - bellamy and enrique.    And remember, Bellamy is no spring chicken.

But elsewhere, it has been a scary waste of money.  So for our 90 million that we did actually spend, we essentially have one player who definitely starts most games and slots right into our first team - i.e. Adam. 

Carroll, from the first 2 or 3 games, was patently not good enough.  I have to imagine he is still getting starts because of the embarrassing fee that we paid for him.    To me, it feels like pure internal politics.  But at some point, Kenny and Comolli will have to hold their hands up. 

We have gone backwards this year.  It's embarrassing for Kenny, because he is now forced to revert to Rafa's old team/players, to get results.   

Rafa paid one a half million quid for the superbly gifted Maxi Rodriguez; Kenny paid 35 million for Andy Carroll.   

Says it all really.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 04:28:11 PM by the dude abides »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #408 on: December 08, 2011, 05:02:18 PM »
This is, IMHO, our best starting line-up provided we play a midtable/bottom half side given the current injuries:

--------------------------------Reina----------------------------------

Kelly----------------Skrtel-----------Carra/Coates-----------Enrique

-------------------------------Agger-----------------------------------

-------Johnson--------------Adam---------------------Maxi/Downing

-------------------Suarez------------Kuijt/Bellars--------------------

How curious that you would break up what has been our most successful central defensive partnership of Skrtel and Agger and reintroduce Jamie when he's been getting so much stick on these pages.

And I asked for your chosen 11. So no either/ors please. Just your best 11 and preferably one for all games and not just against 'weaker' teams. Best is best irrespective of the opposition. Lucas would have to be excluded obviously.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #409 on: December 08, 2011, 07:19:52 PM »
--------------------------------Reina----------------------------------

Kelly----------------Skrtel---------------Coates--------------Enrique

-------------------------------Agger-----------------------------------

-----------Johnson-------------Adam---------------------------Maxi

-------------------Suarez--------------------Kuijt--------------------


We'll lose more from playing Spearing or Henderson in the center than breaking up Agger and Skrtel. I also think that since this season is already over and 4th is all but a naive dream we might as well use it to gel Coates into the team. At least we stayed within distance to 4th through November this year. Progression anyone? Lol.

Also, I second every word the Dude says in his post above. Very much spot on that.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 07:21:29 PM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #410 on: December 08, 2011, 08:10:07 PM »
Thanks Ed....a work of true unmitigated brilliance!
LOL, it was so funny!

I note Dude is back on the forum, welcome back Dude, I've missed your views!

I'm looking at the table, now we're 15 from the summit and 10 behind the Mancs.
Ok, but we were never really going to win the league. Our two most
influential midfielders out at the moment...it's not ideal!

So, we're in a battle for fourth! 5 points off 4th! 72 points left to play for (I think!).

There's been talk about the new signings & the manager is being questioned.
Too early, I think.

First off, is anyone saying Kenny is the man to deliver our next Champions league.
Doubt it. He's been appointed, as far as I can see, to revive our fortunes in the league,
get us back into the Champions league and maybe pick up some domestic honours.

If he achieves none of this, then questions deserve to be asked at the end of the season.

The signings...to date they haven't quite gelled. Still, I've seen enough from all of them bar
Carroll to suggest there's more to come from each of them.

On to Carroll. He hasn't really delivered yet. Seems a nice bloke. Back when we bought him, my
idea was that our entire season would depend on him. I had this vision that just the sight of
his name on the teamsheet would send shivers down the spine of the opposition. He would be
our Rooney, someone to lead our charge in the league. Bang!, Bang!, week in week out, terrorising
defences.

Well that hasn't quite worked out. I'm happy enough to stick with the lad for another while because
he'd be an absolute joy to watch if he fulfilled some of the promise he showed with Newcastle. I
think he needs to just be himself, play his game, be an absolute  m**herf**ker, own the box.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #411 on: December 09, 2011, 12:27:50 AM »
Tes I'd much rather see Henderson in the center instead of Spearing.

We'll lose more from playing Spearing or Henderson in the center than breaking up Agger and Skrtel.


Martin, now I'm confused.

Also, Johnson is untried, at least since he's been here, on the right of midfield/wide right/right wing. Yes, there are a few of us that would like to see him tried there, but don't you think you'd be adding further instability to an already experimental team?
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #412 on: December 09, 2011, 01:26:38 AM »
But elsewhere, it has been a scary waste of money. 

The scariest thing about it all is if that was all our powder used in one Summer. Was that the major investment that was to see us back in the CL? FSG don't have Abramovich or Mansour type wealth or even the desire to try to prove they have.

We won't have a January like the last one unless we find a forgotten Torres type valued player under the changing room benches.

The Summer won't see a repeat of this Summer.

So what will we be left with and how will we make up the gap that will probably still be there between us and those above us?

If we do get fourth, will we have the finance to maintain that position ahead of those who finish below us but who you'd fancy to have a few quid to spend in the Summer to reverse it.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #413 on: December 09, 2011, 01:39:27 AM »
The balance of a team is a very tricky thing to get right

e.g. were we beginning to see Reina take up some sweeping duties
with the Skrtel/Agger Lucas combo?

How long did it take for Rafa to happen upon Gerrard playing
off Torres up front (I forget!).

It's the manager's job to get the formula right and I think given the
recent disruptions it may take time or the injuries to Lucas & Gerrard
(desperation) may prompt the introduction of Shelvey up front and pow
the ball starts going in the net...In my opinion there are enough bits
and pieces on the chess board & on the fringes of the first 11 for us
to find a solution. In fact given that it's QPR at home on Saturday, I
wouldn't mind having a look at Shelvey up frontish at some point?
Maybe, young Coates can score from corners?

 

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #414 on: December 09, 2011, 09:07:05 AM »
I note Dude is back on the forum, welcome back Dude, I've missed your views!

thanks, Ed.

I was so utterly depressed with things this season, that I took a sabbatical (and beers) from this place.

But I have returned with fortitude and resolve (and beer).

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #415 on: December 09, 2011, 09:16:35 AM »
The scariest thing about it all is if that was all our powder used in one Summer. Was that the major investment that was to see us back in the CL? FSG don't have Abramovich or Mansour type wealth or even the desire to try to prove they have.

We won't have a January like the last one unless we find a forgotten Torres type valued player under the changing room benches.

The Summer won't see a repeat of this Summer.

So what will we be left with and how will we make up the gap that will probably still be there between us and those above us?

If we do get fourth, will we have the finance to maintain that position ahead of those who finish below us but who you'd fancy to have a few quid to spend in the Summer to reverse it.

agreed.

If Kenny is allowed to see out his three year contract, then I see us finally losing touch with the top tier elite.

Kenny or Comolli can't even claim credit for our best buy, Suarez.  He was being targetted by the club long before they appeared on the scene.

The best of their 90 million was spent on Adam.  Good lad (glad we have him), but hardly a world beater. 

Two good frees, Enrique and 45 year old, Bellamy.

The over-priced Henderson has potential.

Carroll is nowhere near good enough, either physically or mentally.

As you say, we do not have the resources (or the will) to be spending the same amounts of money in the next transfer windows.

Kenny and Comolli might as well have gone out and burnt 90 million quid.

We have gone backwards. 

I hope our American owners see that and make changes in the summer.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #416 on: December 09, 2011, 12:39:49 PM »

Martin, now I'm confused.

Also, Johnson is untried, at least since he's been here, on the right of midfield/wide right/right wing. Yes, there are a few of us that would like to see him tried there, but don't you think you'd be adding further instability to an already experimental team?

The first of my quotes was related to Monday's game in particular. As for the other quote, I'm thinking we should use the rest of the season, now that it's over anyway, to forge a good starting XI. I'd say our best RM is Kuijt but he's also the best we have to link up with Suarez and seeing as we lack goals... Yes Johnson is untried but he's also a tad shaky defensively. Our depth in strength isn't so deep when push comes to show.
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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #417 on: December 09, 2011, 01:09:06 PM »
I'm thinking we should use the rest of the season, now that it's over anyway,

I'm speechless! There are 72 points up for grabs, we're 5 points off 4th and you have written off the rest of the season!  :o Maybe it's a Scandinavian thing. ::) I remain positive we can still achieve 4th or higher.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #418 on: December 09, 2011, 03:32:24 PM »
I'm speechless! There are 72 points up for grabs, we're 5 points off 4th and you have written off the rest of the season!  :o Maybe it's a Scandinavian thing. ::) I remain positive we can still achieve 4th or higher.

Agreed ASI, its a terrible way to look at things and not an attitude that relates to the way LFC have gone about their business over time.

In 1981 Liverpool were 11th after Boxing day. They still managed to put a run together to win the league. It may be a different time, different era and different team and Im not suggesting that the same could happen this season but a club like Liverpool would never have a defeatist attitude like that.

Shankly himself would turn in his grave if we were to adopt such an attitude - "Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor".

For me that kind of attitude is so far removed from the Liverpool Way.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #419 on: December 09, 2011, 04:03:34 PM »
To be honest Im gobsmacked at the general defeatist attitude on this forum.

Dude does spending X amount of million constitute going backwards? Otherwise I dont see how you draw that conclusion.

From this time 12 months ago we are playing far better football, we are higher up in the league, we have had a number of academy players integrated to the squad and first team, we have managed to slash the wage bill by selling off what seemed to be alot of immovable dead wood and we are in the semi final of the Carling Cup. This time last season the Carling Cup was a distant embarrassing memory considering we lost to Northampton.

If all of that isnt progress under Kenny I dont know what is. Does the fact that hes spent 50-60 million net cancel out the progress we've made? I understand that many posters on here dont rate Kenny, thats fair enough, only time will tell whether he is the right man for the club but I personally believe hes done an awful lot of good in only 11 months in charge.  Unfortunately though it seems that unless Dalglishs side have achieved Champions League qualification by Christmas or unless his newly signed players are player of the year nominations by the time 2011 is out then everything he has done to date is one almighty failure.

At the start of the season most people said if we could snatch 4th and win a cup we would have had a successful season. Within 3 months and only 14 league games into the season it seems peoples expectations have gone through the roof. After the turbulent few years this club has had I find all of these criticisms very hard to comprehend.

Anyway welcome back to the forum Dude.

Its also a pity we don't have Kopite on here anymore, he was always able to give us the feeling from the support on Merseyside.