March 29, 2020, 04:57:45 PM

Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 295878 times)

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #480 on: December 20, 2011, 08:20:48 PM »
Ban suspended pending appeal which must be made within 14 days. Full report here:-

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/luis-suarez-20-12-11
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #481 on: December 20, 2011, 08:33:47 PM »
And a very robust statement from LFC. Reading between the lines they are absolutely livid.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/liverpool-fc-statement-8
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #482 on: December 20, 2011, 08:49:53 PM »
Absolute farce, but Taggart must be appeased.

As soon as they decided they actually had some evidence (Evra's word) there was always a great danger he would be found guilty.

The problem with these sort of cases, as in ones where accusations of any sexual nature is involved, is that the authorities are scared not to 'believe' the accuser due to nothing else than the nature of the accusation alone.

Let's see what the FA do with the Ingurland captain.

I just hope this doesn't make Suarez think twice about being in England and look to leave either in January or the Summer.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #483 on: December 20, 2011, 09:29:55 PM »
I find that very surprising given the time it's taken for them to reach a decision. Striker definitely needed in Jan.

How will the owners react to a LFC player found guilty of racism? Would be crazy to sell him but sh*t sticks and all other clubs will always remind us and him of it.

I don't think FSG will be fooled by the Kangaroo Court that is the FA, especially when it has anything that includes the Mancs. David Gill, FA executive............ surely not.

Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #484 on: December 20, 2011, 09:34:21 PM »
I don't think FSG will be fooled by the Kangaroo Court that is the FA, especially when it has anything that includes the Mancs. David Gill, FA executive............ surely not.
I wrote that before reading the club's response. Clearly they're not going to take this lying down. Can the ban be extended for a failed appeal?

Realistically, what chance is there of the ban being reduced? Can you take it to a higher body? UEFA? European Court?
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #485 on: December 20, 2011, 09:51:11 PM »
I wrote that before reading the club's response. Clearly they're not going to take this lying down. Can the ban be extended for a failed appeal?

Realistically, what chance is there of the ban being reduced? Can you take it to a higher body? UEFA? European Court?

I'm not sure whether this falls under the criteria where the ban can be extended. That does apply to bans as a result of cards but I'm not sure in this instance.

I guess it depends on the wording of the ruling and how they've arrived at their 'verdict' as to whether we have grounds to appeal.

What I do know is that we've been shafted twice now by the FA with regards to their initiatives. Mascherano, coincidentally (or not) against the Mancs when 'Respect' version one was introduced and now under their recent 'racism' initiative. How many other players have 'fallen foul' of these? None spring readily to mind.

Watching MOTD2 on Sunday, Rooney showed flagrant dissent to the referree, both with his gestures and what he said (no lip reading expertise needed), and yet what ever becomes of this when it happens on a match by match basis, or is caught quite clearly on camera, exactly, sweet FA. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #486 on: December 20, 2011, 09:52:16 PM »
It's beyond a farce tes, it's a ferkin assult on the player, the club and its fans. I'm shocked and appalled and couldn't believe my eyes when I read it. Through the years I sometimes hear some fans say the establishment has a hidden agenda towards this club. For the first time I think they were right.

The FA just took away whatever chance we had to finish 4th.

If, as you say, this forces Luiz to leave I'll stop watching footy. I'm sad and angry beyond words.
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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #487 on: December 20, 2011, 10:01:13 PM »
I'm not sure whether this falls under the criteria where the ban can be extended. That does apply to bans as a result of cards but I'm not sure in this instance.

I guess it depends on the wording of the ruling and how they've arrived at their 'verdict' as to whether we have grounds to appeal.
The FA statement clearly states an appeal is allowed so you can rest assured LFC will hire the best legal minds available.

Quote
What I do know is that we've been shafted twice now by the FA with regards to their initiatives. Mascherano, coincidentally (or not) against the Mancs when 'Respect' version one was introduced and now under their recent 'racism' initiative. How many other players have 'fallen foul' of these? None spring readily to mind.
Masch got himself sent off for gobbing off to the ref when his team-mates were trying to haul him away.

Rooney got hit with a 3 match ban for swearing into a TV camera a few months ago.

Quote
Watching MOTD2 on Sunday, Rooney showed flagrant dissent to the referree, both with his gestures and what he said (no lip reading expertise needed), and yet what ever becomes of this when it happens on a match by match basis, or is caught quite clearly on camera, exactly, sweet FA.
Missed that both live and on MoTD. None of the pundits mentioned it.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #488 on: December 20, 2011, 10:41:40 PM »
saw this coming.......the long delay in dealing with the issue, was a major clue as to what was coming.

any reasonable investigatory body would have dismissed this inside the first few days - citing insufficient evidence.  He said/she said, is never sufficient - especially not for something of this significance (which racism is in the modern era).

but as usual the club are always way way too nice....thus they always end up being shafted.

my legal advice to the player, on the weekend it happened, would have been to sue Evra for slander.  That way, you immediately put the ball back in their court.

and also, I imagine (I am no expert) any FA investigation would have to take a backseat to any ongoing high court actions.

if evra wants to play hardball, and ruin a person's career, then we can all play that game.

at this point, I'd go after Evra for slander and appeal the FA's decision, and if needs be take the case all the way up to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

the only annoying thing is, that the sh.itstorm will last the entire season and well beyond. 

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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #489 on: December 20, 2011, 11:45:11 PM »
John M. Henry needs to call in the lawyers!

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #490 on: December 20, 2011, 11:50:49 PM »

any reasonable investigatory body would have dismissed this inside the first few days - citing insufficient evidence.  He said/she said, is never sufficient - especially not for something of this significance (which racism is in the modern era).

I actually cant believe it.

If the FA could categorical prove that Suarez racially abused Evra I would say 8 game ban fair enough. But like you say Dude the fact that its Evras word against Suarez and the fact that Evra has priors with regard to making unfounded racial abuse accusations makes this judgement farcical.

I really hope Liverpool go as far as possible with this and as you say Dude even for Suarez to contemplate suing Evra.

Stan Collymore tonight claimed that if the FA have given Suarez an 8 game ban then they must be sure he racially abused Evra. You'd swear that the FA dont consistently make botched decisions. It wont help the fight against racism if you start going down the route of punishing people without clear cut evidence. Whose to say Evra doesnt do this again? Also as KD pointed out why was there no charge brought against Evra when he apparently admitted to insulting Suarez. The FA = joke.

The fact that David Gill and Phil Gartside can have a prominent roles in the FA without every other PL club having representatives of equal standing surely can only be looked upon with raised eyebrows.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #491 on: December 21, 2011, 12:10:45 AM »
The fact that David Gill and Phil Gartside can have a prominent roles in the FA without every other PL club having representatives of equal standing surely can only be looked upon with raised eyebrows.

That sums up the FA perfectly. No sitting member of any FA committee, no matter how trivial, should be allowed to have any current or past (within the last 24 months) association with ANY club.

An accusation in itself is not evidence. An accusation needs to be substantiated by something other than the accusation itself.

10 ten times yet all those cameras and pitchside microphones (and let's not forget this was a live match, not just one recorded to show highlights - so more cameras were there ) didn't pick it up, nor any of the other 20 players on the pitch, any officials, fans or members of the management/coaching staff of either team.

The FA have surpassed themselves now. They have become a parody of a parody of themselves.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #492 on: December 21, 2011, 12:18:38 AM »
The FA statement clearly states an appeal is allowed so you can rest assured LFC will hire the best legal minds available.
Masch got himself sent off for gobbing off to the ref when his team-mates were trying to haul him away.

Rooney got hit with a 3 match ban for swearing into a TV camera a few months ago.
Missed that both live and on MoTD. None of the pundits mentioned it.

Ray, I wasn't on about that Rooney incident, but rather his 'normal behaviour' where he acts overly aggressively in both words and actions towards the referees.

Yes, Mascherano was having a go at the ref, but none more so than what is seen weekly throughout the country and no doubt also on that very same day.

It's no coincidence surely, that a player from our club gets made an example of to promote and 'reinforce' a recently started FA initiative from a live televised match against the Mancs.

What's happening with Terry's case? If it's 8 matches for Suarez under those circumstances ie no witnesses etc, then Terry deserves a season long ban. I won't hold my breath.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #493 on: December 21, 2011, 12:22:01 AM »
At least now the FA or Taggart won't run the risk of the embarrassing scenario of us getting further in the CL than the Mancs next season.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #494 on: December 21, 2011, 12:22:45 AM »
I actually cant believe it.

If the FA could categorical prove that Suarez racially abused Evra I would say 8 game ban fair enough. But like you say Dude the fact that its Evras word against Suarez and the fact that Evra has priors with regard to making unfounded racial abuse accusations makes this judgement farcical.

I really hope Liverpool go as far as possible with this and as you say Dude even for Suarez to contemplate suing Evra.

Stan Collymore tonight claimed that if the FA have given Suarez an 8 game ban then they must be sure he racially abused Evra. You'd swear that the FA dont consistently make botched decisions. It wont help the fight against racism if you start going down the route of punishing people without clear cut evidence. Whose to say Evra doesnt do this again? Also as KD pointed out why was there no charge brought against Evra when he apparently admitted to insulting Suarez. The FA = joke.

The fact that David Gill and Phil Gartside can have a prominent roles in the FA without every other PL club having representatives of equal standing surely can only be looked upon with raised eyebrows.

absolutely, Juan.

this decision, or indeed even the makeup of the FA committee, would never stand up in a court of law.  imho

the punishment is not only flawed, it is also possibly biased.

as well as taking this to the highest court (CAS), and going after Evra for slander,  I'd also contemplate advising Suarez to sue both the FA and FIFA for racism (and restraint of trade).  I'd also take this through the EU courts (the European Court of Justice).   As a mixed coloured player, Suarez should be entitled to get a fear hearing.  And he has quite patently not got a fair hearing.  imho

The klu klux klan days of biased hearings in Alabama should be a thing of the past.

If Suarez is not getting a fair hearing, then we need to confront the problem.   
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.