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Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 354350 times)

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #495 on: December 21, 2011, 12:27:28 AM »
What's happening with Terry's case? If it's 8 matches for Suarez under those circumstances ie no witnesses etc, then Terry deserves a season long ban. I won't hold my breath.

the one positive thing from today's debacle, is that the FA have now made a rod for their own back.

if it's 8 matches for Suarez, then we have to be looking at a far longer ban for Terry.....plus him being not only stripped of the England captaincy, but also thrown out of the team.   He can now not feasably be allowed to play at next summer's Euros.

the FA have scored a massive own goal today.  The repercussions will be wide-ranging and rumble on for a long time.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #496 on: December 21, 2011, 12:29:10 AM »
Can the ban be extended for a failed appeal?

From: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-vent-anger-at-suarezs-eightgame-ban-6279941.html

"There is the possibility that the length of the ban could be increased by the appeals board."
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #497 on: December 21, 2011, 12:32:47 AM »
the one positive thing from today's debacle, is that the FA have now made a rod for their own back.

if it's 8 matches for Suarez, then we have to be looking at a far longer ban for Terry.....plus him being not only stripped of the England captaincy, but also thrown out of the team.   He can now not feasably be allowed to play at next summer's Euros.

the FA have scored a massive own goal today.  The repercussions will be wide-ranging and rumble on for a long time.

Dude, apply the FA's recent actions in appealing the Rooney ban for what was clearly violent conduct (or at least would be under an FA sanctioned match) and ask yourself if they will treat 'JT', Ingurland's captain, the same way as they treated Luis.

 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #498 on: December 21, 2011, 12:40:45 AM »
Dude, apply the FA's recent actions in appealing the Rooney ban for what was clearly violent conduct (or at least would be under an FA sanctioned match) and ask yourself if they will treat 'JT', Ingurland's captain, the same way as they treated Luis.

oh I know, Tes.

The FA have brought themselves into disrepute.

I see this issue rumbling on for a long time and if Liverpool had any guts, they would be taking this to the highest courts.

but as always we are far far too nice.  Nice guys get walked over.

It's 2011.  A mixed race player is entitled to a fair hearing.   If the FA are not prepared to give the lad a fair hearing, then this has to go higher. 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #499 on: December 21, 2011, 12:44:21 AM »
Re: Evra's abuse of Luis. Evra is French, so you to presume French is his first language. He has played for enough years in England and has shown in TV interviews that English is not a language he is unable to speak or that he speaks poorly.

He wasn't born in or has ever played in Spain, yet he made the insults not in his own language, or the language of the country both men earn their living in, but in Suarez's native language. You don't insult someone in their language, especially if it isn't your own unless you want them to know in no uncertain terms exactly what you are doing and saying to them, so they can be left in no doubt whatsoever and it personalises the insult even more my the fact that it was made specifically in their language and not your own or a 'neutral' language.

I guess the FA will conveniently overlook that fact though.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #500 on: December 21, 2011, 12:56:50 AM »
Re: Evra's abuse of Luis. Evra is French, so you to presume French is his first language. He has played for enough years in England and has shown in TV interviews that English is not a language he is unable to speak or that he speaks poorly.

He wasn't born in or has ever played in Spain, yet he made the insults not in his own language, or the language of the country both men earn their living in, but in Suarez's native language. You don't insult someone in their language, especially if it isn't your own unless you want them to know in no uncertain terms exactly what you are doing and saying to them, so they can be left in no doubt whatsoever and it personalises the insult even more my the fact that it was made specifically in their language and not your own or a 'neutral' language.

I guess the FA will conveniently overlook that fact though.
i live in a spanish speaking country and the word negra (spelling?) is common here.    Hombre negra, is a term I hear all the time.  And i bet it is the same down in Uruguay. 

It is not a nasty term, merely a term  local people use to describe others of a different colour.

The same type of way Brits used to use it, years ago. 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 01:02:30 AM by the dude abides »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #501 on: December 21, 2011, 01:01:26 AM »
hey folks, in future,  we gotta chat in skype or even better in oovoo (where we can all chat in a room)

http://www.skype.com

http://www.oovoo.com/Download.aspx
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #502 on: December 21, 2011, 11:19:11 AM »
Re: Evra's abuse of Luis. Evra is French, so you to presume French is his first language. He has played for enough years in England and has shown in TV interviews that English is not a language he is unable to speak or that he speaks poorly.

He wasn't born in or has ever played in Spain, yet he made the insults not in his own language, or the language of the country both men earn their living in, but in Suarez's native language. You don't insult someone in their language, especially if it isn't your own unless you want them to know in no uncertain terms exactly what you are doing and saying to them, so they can be left in no doubt whatsoever and it personalises the insult even more my the fact that it was made specifically in their language and not your own or a 'neutral' language.

I guess the FA will conveniently overlook that fact though.

Very true Tes.

So basically you are allowed to verbally abuse someone but as long as its not mistrued as being racial your are fine. This case stinks and to hear some of the commentary from different reputible sources is barmy. Ive read stuff to the extent, Suarez isnt a racist, its his word against Evras but Im glad to see the FA have finally come down hard on racism. What a load of rubbish. Thats effectively saying he may be innocent but someone needed to be punished to make a stand on racism.

Another point, if Suarez believed what he said was racist then surely he would never have admitted to the FA  that he used any such term. There were no witnesses so it actually took Suarez admitting he used a term to even bring a case against him. Why would Suarez admit to the FA that he used the term if he thought he could be charged with racism.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #503 on: December 21, 2011, 02:50:08 PM »
Terry has been charged with racially abusing Anton Ferdinand.

In fairness Terry case is much different to Suarez for the simple fact that television cameras clearly show him mouthing a racial slur.

However whether or not Terry is cleared in a court of law surely if Suarez has received an 8 game ban Terry should be receiving something far more severe? But I cant see the FA allowing Terry to be banned for the European Championships.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #504 on: December 21, 2011, 03:13:40 PM »
The report into the findings against Suarez will make interesting reading.

There was a sports lawyer on discussing the case. He said that from reading the FA statement most likely what happened was that Suarez was banned for 4 games for using

"insulting words towards Mr Evra during the match contrary to FA Rule E3(1)"

 and that was doubled because

"insulting words used by Mr Suarez included a reference to Mr Evra's colour within the meaning of Rule E3(2)".


So according to the FA's own rules above Evra should also be banned because he admitted to insulting Suarez in Spanish. The FA dont even follow their own precedent.

I hope LFC drag the absolute a*se out of this and take it as far as they possibly can.
 

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #505 on: December 21, 2011, 03:29:51 PM »
Just read a retweet from Phil McNulty.

"The Crown Prosecution Service say that the maximum punishment for John Terry if he's found guilty of this offence is a fine of £2500"

Is it possible the FA are sidestepping the issue of having to punish Terry because they know all he can receive is a petty fine if found guilty in court? It means no heavy ban and no missing England games. Why was Terrys case referred to the Crown Prosecution Service while Suarez's was not?

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #506 on: December 21, 2011, 06:14:52 PM »
there are a number of conclusions arising from this debacle.

  • the FA are now making themselves judge, jury and executioner regarding a player's career (Suarez is now going to be forever stained and will get endless abuse around the grounds).
  • the FA have made a massive rod for their own back, by setting the bar so low, the evidence required so low, and the punishment so high
  • we will now see repercussions - I predict Evra will now have serious ongoing problems in trying to continue his career in England
  • I now foresee the floodgates opening.....and I foresee white players now responding and making complaints about abuse they get from black players

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #507 on: December 21, 2011, 08:48:35 PM »
Looks like same old same old. I get the feeling we'll drop points against mediocre opposition yet again. We need a goalscorer more than ever. It's incredible to see a team dominate so heavily yet failing to score. We were really good the first 25 then we dropped everything and to be honest I feel we're lucky to be level against Wigan after first half. That goes a million lightyears to sweep aside lady luck not being on our side - we're simply not good enough.

It's shocking to see us go from totally dominating the game to be completely disjointed and without ideas. Maybe Suarez suspension won't be that costly after all, we got so much bigger problems than that.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 08:51:49 PM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #508 on: December 21, 2011, 10:14:09 PM »
Not good enough. There's no other way of putting it. Transitional phase = bollocks. Bad luck = bollocks. Injuries = bollocks. After spending nearly 100 m the last 12 months surely you'd expect more quality than this. But the harsh truth there's none to be found. Look at Adam, wasting the ball time and time again. Henderson is so anonymous we were effectively playing the game with a man down. Downing - predictable as the Swedish mid-winter weather. Maxi - never really cut it against poor oppostion and faded extremly in the second half. Beside the back 4 the only players to get away with some pride is Kuijt and Suarez.

Also, Kenny's the wrong man for this club. After 60 minutes it was written all over keeping the same tactics, formation and players on the pitch would see us drop points. What does he do? Nothing, of course. That's his main tactical move. Do nothing to try to change the run of play, do nothing to find new ways when the opponents close us down with increasing ease. After 6 games with Hodgson many LFC fans had it they had empirical evidence he wasn't fit to run a club this size. I don't think he was or is. But what is it in Kenny's managing the team that suggest the opposite? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

As I said at half time, I'd be fukcnig happy if missing out on Surez for a few games was the only thing that stood between us and a realistic shot at 4th. Again, we've got so much bigger troubles than that. One being having spent the bulk of our war chest on pure mediocrity.

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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #509 on: December 21, 2011, 11:23:49 PM »
Martin, I find myself agreeing with some of your points. There is quality there but it's not consistent and that's the key. Being able to perform week in week out at a similar level.

Pepe and the defence were okay but than again they should be against a relegation side. Midfield was poor. Very little movement and passing to men stood still is so annoying.

Why didn't Kuyt take the pen? Surely he's senior to Adam? This is where we miss Gerrard as he would take them and rarely misses. We've missed 4 out of 5 pens this season and when Kenny was quizzed about that stat he just shrugged his shoulders. Hopefully he'll have something more positive to say to those responsible.

Don't see the point of subbing Suarez for Carroll with 4 mins left. Crazy decision. Carroll has to be given 90 mins against Blackburn on Boxing Day. And a few backsides need kicking after tonight. We didn't do the simple things well.
Cheers,
Ray