October 26, 2020, 06:52:19 PM

Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 354184 times)

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #510 on: December 22, 2011, 01:22:53 AM »
Admittedly I didnt see the game so cant comment on how we played or who did what. That said it is a poor result. We have a very good away record this season and every team can expect to drop points away from home but we should still be beating the likes of Wigan.

I dont understand the comparisons to Roy and Kenny because the difference between the way the team played under Roy and the way they play under Kenny is light years apart.  Under Roy we were relegation fodder and chances were every decent player we had would have left. Under Kenny the players clearly enjoy the way we play and believe we are a club going places.

I find it hard to criticise Adams penalty because it wasnt a bad strike, keepers luck against us seems to be in this year.

Poor result, we are still 2 points off fourth. We need to see what quality we can add in January and we need to improve our consistency but questions over the managers position as well as condemning young players like Henderson are premature and irrational to say the least. 

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #511 on: December 22, 2011, 01:47:00 AM »
Nice touch out of the LFC squad and Kenny with the t-shirts in support of Suarez.

Lets just hope we can get the ban overturned on appeal because I genuinely think Luis has been mugged by the FA.

Fergies response when asked about the situation wreaked of kissing the FA's a*s. Why wouldnt he when United have them in their pocket.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #512 on: December 22, 2011, 07:30:28 AM »
I find it hard to criticise Adams penalty because it wasnt a bad strike, keepers luck against us seems to be in this year.

Surely you must be taking the p**s????? That was the worst taken peno I saw in at least 2-3 years. Adam did everything but point which corner he would hit it, and then pretty much hit it 1 meter inside the post. I took no luck or skill to "save" that peno, no more so than saving a pass from the back line, really.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #513 on: December 22, 2011, 07:36:16 AM »
Why didn't Kuyt take the pen? Surely he's senior to Adam? This is where we miss Gerrard as he would take them and rarely misses. We've missed 4 out of 5 pens this season and when Kenny was quizzed about that stat he just shrugged his shoulders. Hopefully he'll have something more positive to say to those responsible.

Don't see the point of subbing Suarez for Carroll with 4 mins left. Crazy decision. Carroll has to be given 90 mins against Blackburn on Boxing Day. And a few backsides need kicking after tonight. We didn't do the simple things well.

Never trusted Adam for a penalty, and especially not in a game where he'd been a complete waste of space. Kuijt for me is numero uno even with Stevie in the side.

That's the question, isn't it? Why take the two performing players off? Smells like Rafa spirit, i.e., we're happy with a point away at Wigan.
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Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #514 on: December 22, 2011, 11:20:16 AM »
Surely you must be taking the p**s????? That was the worst taken peno I saw in at least 2-3 years. Adam did everything but point which corner he would hit it, and then pretty much hit it 1 meter inside the post. I took no luck or skill to "save" that peno, no more so than saving a pass from the back line, really.

Admittedly I didnt see the game and only saw a side angle replay of the penalty. From there it looked looked like a hard well taken kick, maybe at a height that made it easy for the keeper so if it was in fact alot poorer than that I stand corrected. I didnt have the benefit of seeing a replay from behind the penalty taker.

I can understand why Kuyt isnt taking the penalties. Hes clearly not first choice in the team these days so I suppose Kenny wants our penalty taker to be a mainstay player instead of chopping and changing takers depending whose on the pitch.  In theory it sounds fair but in practice it hasnt worked.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #515 on: December 22, 2011, 03:33:06 PM »
Why didn't Kuyt take the pen? Surely he's senior to Adam?

We've said it on more than one occasion on here - if Dirk is on the pitch he takes the penalties. One miss in all the time he's been here and he's taken some very high pressure penalties, including two re-takes, both successfully converted, one of which was against Everton.

It cost us two points and a chance to close the gap right up on Arsenal and Chelsea. Spurs games in hand over us are racking up and if their form continues we could easily end up in at least a three horse race for fourth. At the moment I would be reluctant to bet on us in a donkey derby.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #516 on: December 22, 2011, 04:29:04 PM »
i live in a spanish speaking country and the word negra (spelling?) is common here.    Hombre negra, is a term I hear all the time.  And i bet it is the same down in Uruguay. 

It is not a nasty term, merely a term  local people use to describe others of a different colour.

The same type of way Brits used to use it, years ago.

I'm glad you've heard it where you live , Dude, as this is my understanding of the context and it's meaning.

The FA panel, made up purely of white English men, have seen fit to judge a word from a foreign language, from a foreign culture, used in the context of that foreign language and culture and decided that they are more informed than an individual for whom that language is his natural tongue and the culture one that he is most familiar with and additionally have tried to jemmy it into the English language and culture and judge it on those terms. I've yet to read or heard about that word being able to be used in a racist context. Apparently, it's no insulting than 'mate' or 'pal' when used it a sarcastic or ironic context to someone who obviousy isn't a friend of any sort.

By over sensitising rascism they undermined all the genuine cases of rascism and instead of becoming shocking we will find it becomes almost commonplace that it will eventually lose it's stigma.

Yet again we've had to provide the poster boy for one of the FA's initiatives and their 'intent to enforce it'. Let's see how quickly the enforcement novelty wears off. Probably starting with John Terry, where the FA will hide behind the legal system as a way of avoiding handing out due punishment for an offence that took place during a match under their jurisdiction and for which any criminal censure should only be in addition, not instead off. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #517 on: December 22, 2011, 05:54:47 PM »
Frustrating draw last night...

Feck it, we need Stevie G back, to give us that extra class and
winning mentality.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #518 on: December 22, 2011, 07:29:14 PM »
In evidence for the defence, I offer you this well known bunch of racist thugs:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3QFOXPReec
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 07:31:18 PM by Tes »
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #519 on: December 22, 2011, 07:49:21 PM »
I'm glad you've heard it where you live , Dude, as this is my understanding of the context and it's meaning.

The FA panel, made up purely of white English men, have seen fit to judge a word from a foreign language, from a foreign culture, used in the context of that foreign language and culture and decided that they are more informed than an individual for whom that language is his natural tongue and the culture one that he is most familiar with and additionally have tried to jemmy it into the English language and culture and judge it on those terms. I've yet to read or heard about that word being able to be used in a racist context. Apparently, it's no insulting than 'mate' or 'pal' when used it a sarcastic or ironic context to someone who obviousy isn't a friend of any sort.

By over sensitising rascism they undermined all the genuine cases of rascism and instead of becoming shocking we will find it becomes almost commonplace that it will eventually lose it's stigma.

Yet again we've had to provide the poster boy for one of the FA's initiatives and their 'intent to enforce it'. Let's see how quickly the enforcement novelty wears off. Probably starting with John Terry, where the FA will hide behind the legal system as a way of avoiding handing out due punishment for an offence that took place during a match under their jurisdiction and for which any criminal censure should only be in addition, not instead off.

spot on, in all the above points you make, Tes.

the three man FA committee comes across as pompous, ignorant and almost from another age.  I picture them as not dissimilar to the old style British government officials or ambassadors that oversaw and ruled across Britain's colonies, when it used to have an empire across the world.

we will need to see the final written decision making process, when it is released, on this judgement.

but I have to wonder whether the FA had proper translations of the term, and it's context, when used in south america.

my feeling is that they have simply gone, regardless of advice from translators or not, as judging that any use of the word black is a big NO NO.

But as you say, by over-sententising us to racism, the thing then becomes ridiculous and eventually irrelevant.   In the first world now, it is almost scary to use the word BLACK in any context outside one's own home.

The FA have potentially ruined this lad's career. 

And though he is yet to realise it yet, I suspect Evra has ruined his own career in England too.  I think he will be a marked man now - both from crowds and from other players and managers.  I would not be surprised to see him move this or next summer to a mainland Europe club.

But if I were the club and the players, I'd withdraw all my support and services to the FA.  Liverpool can withdraw any pleasantries/invites to FA officials to Anfield and Melwood.  The players can withdraw their services from England duty - both at full england level, but also at under 21 and youth level.     

The players could make a helluva stand, especially with this being a Euro championship summer.   Withdraw from all england squads for the rest of the season.  That will help focus minds at the FA.

Liverpool as a club are way way too nice these past 20 years.  This type of thing would never have got this far with John Smith or Peter Robinson in charge.

On a different tact.  The Terry thing has yet to come up and it is far more serious than the Suarez incident.  And also, the mockery and ridicule that the London media and others fire at people from the Liverpool area (put-downs of scousers and the stereotyping of them) now has to be addressed in a totally different light.  The bar is now set so low, re abuse, that Liverpool (who have been the victims of this vitriol for decades) have now got very good reason to play the victim and go after their abusers.

The FA have made a rod for their own back.  And I sure as hell would beat them with it.






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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #520 on: December 22, 2011, 08:06:05 PM »
The most balanced and common sense statement I've seen in all this farce:

Viv Anderson, the first black player to represent England, admitted Suarez's case was a complicated one.

"If somebody said something that, in their culture, isn't as bad as we take it to be, you have to allow for that," he told BBC North West Tonight.


From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16291583.stm
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #521 on: December 22, 2011, 08:24:43 PM »
well said Viv Anderson.

and also on that BBC link, this is interesting from Kenny.

Suarez was given a rough ride by sections of the crowd inside the DW Stadium at times, angering Dalglish.
The Scot added: "It's all very well and good to tell players to control themselves, the FA better start controlling crowds."


This is exactly what I mean when I say that the FA have now made a rod for their own back.  They are going to have to start throwing large numbers of fans out of grounds, or close down stadiums (in the worst instances....say Milllwall)
Well, rub it up them.  I can think of no better an organisation, than the FA, to get hoisted upon their own petard.



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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #522 on: December 22, 2011, 08:51:58 PM »
well said Viv Anderson.

and also on that BBC link, this is interesting from Kenny.

Suarez was given a rough ride by sections of the crowd inside the DW Stadium at times, angering Dalglish.
The Scot added: "It's all very well and good to tell players to control themselves, the FA better start controlling crowds."


This is exactly what I mean when I say that the FA have now made a rod for their own back.  They are going to have to start throwing large numbers of fans out of grounds, or close down stadiums (in the worst instances....say Milllwall)
Well, rub it up them.  I can think of no better an organisation, than the FA, to get hoisted upon their own petard.

They've tiptoed around coming out directly and saying that Luis used racist language, however the inference is there, the media have gone to town and painted it in big neon letters and Suarez is being labelled as something there is no proof of that he even remotely is.

Anyone else see this as the FA saying a big F.U to Blatter also? The grapes remain very sour at the FA.

Maybe Luis should have just kicked out at Evra Rooney-style. Then when we appealed they would have had to reduce the ban. Afterall, aren't they the rules?
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #523 on: December 22, 2011, 09:16:54 PM »
oh it's a big can of worms alright.

and there are other political vendettas in this (like you mention re Blatter).

but also, think abou tthe repercussions now, in another light.

not only would I recommend that our players refuse to represent england for the rest of this season.

i would also now suggest that when confronted with a nasty abusive crowd (like Suarez had to face when he have the finger to them at Fulham), that the team walks off the pitch.

Indeed, an entire team walking off, is something  I have long predicted would happen at some point.

well now we have the perfect excuse and the perfect environment.

we have a tinderbox environment, of (in many instances) over sensitivity.

When confronted with nasty crowds, as Suarez now has been condemned to in the future by the FA, Liverpool players should walk off the pitch.

The FA have set a standard.....let's all hold them to it.




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There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #524 on: December 22, 2011, 11:12:08 PM »
So this is how the table looks at Christmas. I think we are still well in there. We dropped alot of points that were there for the taking but if we can start converting some of the chances we are creating we will be there or there abouts for fourth.


                                     Played     Points
1Manchester City              17           44
2Manchester United          17           42
3Tottenham Hotspur          16           35
4Chelsea                         17           33
5Arsenal                          17           32
6Liverpool                        17           30