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Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 344055 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #525 on: December 23, 2011, 12:08:16 AM »
So this is how the table looks at Christmas. I think we are still well in there. We dropped alot of points that were there for the taking but if we can start converting some of the chances we are creating we will be there or there abouts for fourth.


                                     Played     Points
1Manchester City              17           44
2Manchester United          17           42
3Tottenham Hotspur          16           35
4Chelsea                         17           33
5Arsenal                          17           32
6Liverpool                        17           30

We're certainly in a three horse race for fourth, a four horse race for two spots if Spurs hit a patch of bad form.

We've certainly got the defensive foundations to build on, we need to start scoring the odd goal or two, starting with penalties. We still have too few genuine goal threats throughout the team. Adam probably won't repeat the scoring feats he enjoyed last season, Downing has been disappointing on that front and Dirk's not appeared on the scoresheet as often though limited chances in the team don't help either opportunity or the sort of continuity strikers/forwards tend to need to score on anything resembling a regular basis.

Skrtel has surpassed himself at both ends of the field this season - I am so enjoying being wrong about him. 
Agger's due a goal soon, Bellamy's weighed in with a creditworthy contribution considering his relatively limited amount of minutes on the pitch.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #526 on: December 23, 2011, 12:36:12 AM »
we are exactly in the table where we deserve to be, and where I predicted we would be.

after spending 112 million quid this year, we have a fair bit of talent to call upon.

sadly, as much as I love Kenny, he is nowhere near good enough.....he is the weakest link.

when I watch our matches, I see an unbalanced side, with no ryhme or reason to our football...often seeing acres of space where players are out of position, or unsure of where they should be.

even simple issues, like who takes our penalties, seems beyond kenny's organisational abilities.

and given the relative quality of wenger, harry redknapp and even the lad at chelsea, I see kenny failing miserably.  His tactics are pretty non existent.  He is unable to make appropriate changes mid-game.

when with more money than everybody else, he has a chance for occasional success........but with less money than most competitors, he has no chance.




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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #527 on: December 23, 2011, 06:48:47 PM »
we are exactly in the table where we deserve to be, and where I predicted we would be.

after spending 112 million quid this year, we have a fair bit of talent to call upon.

sadly, as much as I love Kenny, he is nowhere near good enough.....he is the weakest link.

when I watch our matches, I see an unbalanced side, with no ryhme or reason to our football...often seeing acres of space where players are out of position, or unsure of where they should be.

even simple issues, like who takes our penalties, seems beyond kenny's organisational abilities.

and given the relative quality of wenger, harry redknapp and even the lad at chelsea, I see kenny failing miserably.  His tactics are pretty non existent.  He is unable to make appropriate changes mid-game.

when with more money than everybody else, he has a chance for occasional success........but with less money than most competitors, he has no chance.

I know I may sound a tad repetitive but there's not one word I disagree with in that post, dude. Very well said.

I know I'l get the stick but I'm entertaining the thought of letting Ancelotti get a fair crack of the whip for a couple of years. At least the man knows what it takes to win titles and I'm confident he'd thrive at a much better run club than Chelsea.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #528 on: December 23, 2011, 07:50:03 PM »
I know I may sound a tad repetitive but there's not one word I disagree with in that post, dude. Very well said.

I know I'l get the stick but I'm entertaining the thought of letting Ancelotti get a fair crack of the whip for a couple of years. At least the man knows what it takes to win titles and I'm confident he'd thrive at a much better run club than Chelsea.

It's strange that, Martin, Dude and I had this conversation once it became clear that Ancelotti would be released by the Russian megalomaniac.

Sturridge, tenth goal this season last night in 16 starts, plus 3 sub appearances. Better than 1 in 2. Makes it 18 in 30 total appearances for this calender year playing first team football for Bolton (on loan) and Chelsea.

How we could have done with / will be needing that sort of extra fire power.

Still can't get my head around what we did and didn't do with the Torres deal last January.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #529 on: December 23, 2011, 09:32:35 PM »
yes funny you mention Ancelllotti, martin.....because Tes and me had this same discussion ages ago.

rafa is available, ancellotti is available, and several others.

the guy I have always wanted, martin oneill, is starting to perform miracles at sunderland (he always excels wherever he goes).

and we are stuck with friggen kenny. 

I have said it for years, til I am blue in the face.  Kenny should be our worldwide club ambassador.....like bobby charlton is at United.    We need to get a real boss in the dugout.
 
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #530 on: December 23, 2011, 09:35:58 PM »
There's a few of points I'd make:

In hindsight (and I said it at the time) selling Meireles was a mistake!
(I just feel he makes a difference to the fine lines that separate success
and failure, though, obviously, it's impossible to speculate how many
points that cost us)

Buying Enrique was a fantastic piece of business though!

To date, the purchase of Carroll hasn't paid off...YET! (He's 22 ffs!!)
Suarez, on the other hand, is an amazing talent!
The two of them account for the Torres money &
selling Torres for the money we did, was in hindsight
a no-brainer!

The purchase of Coates, looks very astute (too early
to judge though) & re-signing Bellamy as a squad player,
again was a good decision.

Adam, Downing & Henderson have all come in and made
contributions, though I hope the best is yet to come from
each of them.

Skrtel & Maxi have both improved under Dalglish, imo. Though
the sidelining and subsequent lack of goals (is it 17 LEAGUE
GAMES??) from Kuyt, seems strange.

To lose Gerrard & Lucas (because of a stupid fixture arrangement)
at the point of team development that we did has been very unfortunate.
To hit the post so many times and miss (how many?) penalties is above
normal.

We're 3 points off 4th, in the semi-final of the Carling cup
& the transfer window is due to open soon. So we have an
opportunity to address any weaknesses in the side (bearing
in mind, the Suarez, suspension).

I wouldn't say i was jumping for joy, but the manager's position
is not up for questioning, imo, 'til the end of the season. Besides,
it's a team, Clarke, Comolli & Dalglish and I presume they're
learning from their mistakes...If we don't get 4th, then questions
should be asked!

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #531 on: December 23, 2011, 10:07:41 PM »
It's strange that, Martin, Dude and I had this conversation once it became clear that Ancelotti would be released by the Russian megalomaniac.

Sturridge, tenth goal this season last night in 16 starts, plus 3 sub appearances. Better than 1 in 2. Makes it 18 in 30 total appearances for this calender year playing first team football for Bolton (on loan) and Chelsea.

How we could have done with / will be needing that sort of extra fire power.

Is so spot on. Though, extra power? Is there any power at all as it is? Please let me know. Funny you mention Sturridge because I kept thinking last nite when I watched the game how is it we always seems miss out on obvious talent? How hard was Parker to spot? Reo-Coker I still think would be a good acquisition. Adam Johnson, Englands finest left winger is rotting on the City bench while we're splashing an incredible 20 million on an extremly mediocre Henderson. The list goes on. As for Carrol, did they never make a qualified guess as to how the carrying of that price tag would effect the mind of a young and, it has to be said, inexperienced player? That's how limited statistical calculations really are when push comes to show. To me it was a given it would be like the rock of Gibraltar on his shoulders. I still think he has the objective features to come good, i.e., good ability in the air and able to use both his feet. But this is the problem, we buy for the future like we're expecting to field a team able to fight for 4th, let alone the title, for the coming years.

We need a manager who understand what his best team and formation is and dude, I never really thought Rafa did just that. His first seasons was very good but then it's like the Istanbul experience got to his head and his subsequently lost the plot. + he never really understood the PL, i.e., playing for a draw against a bottomhalf sides away may be good in Spain but will never be enough in Ingurland. Ancelotti has the experience, tactical astutness and pragmatism needed to get us back to the top again, IMHO. MON as much as like and respect the man was never tested in a big club and I think we need a manager to come in that has a proven track record at the highest level.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 10:12:04 PM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #532 on: December 23, 2011, 10:22:44 PM »
There's a few of points I'd make:

In hindsight (and I said it at the time) selling Meireles was a mistake!
(I just feel he makes a difference to the fine lines that separate success
and failure, though, obviously, it's impossible to speculate how many
points that cost us)

Buying Enrique was a fantastic piece of business though!

To date, the purchase of Carroll hasn't paid off...YET! (He's 22 ffs!!)
Suarez, on the other hand, is an amazing talent!
The two of them account for the Torres money &
selling Torres for the money we did, was in hindsight
a no-brainer!

The purchase of Coates, looks very astute (too early
to judge though) & re-signing Bellamy as a squad player,
again was a good decision.

Adam, Downing & Henderson have all come in and made
contributions, though I hope the best is yet to come from
each of them.

Skrtel & Maxi have both improved under Dalglish, imo. Though
the sidelining and subsequent lack of goals (is it 17 LEAGUE
GAMES??) from Kuyt, seems strange.

To lose Gerrard & Lucas (because of a stupid fixture arrangement)
at the point of team development that we did has been very unfortunate.
To hit the post so many times and miss (how many?) penalties is above
normal.

We're 3 points off 4th, in the semi-final of the Carling cup
& the transfer window is due to open soon. So we have an
opportunity to address any weaknesses in the side (bearing
in mind, the Suarez, suspension).

I wouldn't say i was jumping for joy, but the manager's position
is not up for questioning, imo, 'til the end of the season. Besides,
it's a team, Clarke, Comolli & Dalglish and I presume they're
learning from their mistakes...If we don't get 4th, then questions
should be asked!

Ed, it's true we're not that far off 4th from a numerical point of view. But if we really were that good it would've been 1 point at the most. We knew either or both of Chelsea and Spurs would drop points following our game aganst Wigan. But we threw it away. In fact, we were shockingly bad the last 20 and we never really looked like we could get a winner. Of course we weren't helped by Kenny's decision to take one of our best performers off last 18 minutes. We'll drop points like we did against Wigan at least 10 more games and that will see us finish 6th at best. It's a combination of poor managing and lack of quality in key positions. But it is a crime against footy to play Henderson and Downing ahead of Kuijt. I'm sorry mate but your rose tinted look at life will only leave you disillusioned.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #533 on: December 23, 2011, 10:58:14 PM »
We knew either or both of Chelsea and Spurs would drop points following our game aganst Wigan. But we threw it away.
Ok, Martin, I'll give you that point and it's a good and important one.

This mental weakness (after the peno), lack of clinical finishing (terrible peno)
and WINNING mentality (must score peno, to win!). Sure these are worrying
features of the game against Wigan. If someone wants to go back and analyse
are league performances this season, it may even be a recurring theme. It
could even be argued that it is one of the reasons that we haven't won the title
(or been close to it) for 20 years because we cannot consistently put these ideas
into practice over the course of a season (there are others though, finance,
mis-management of the club etc.)

Old (title-winning) LFC teams used to do these things on auto-pilot, second
nature to them.

However, we're not currently in the relegation zone (or out of the race for 4th)?
So my argument is that in spite of the adversity that we have faced this season
we are sitting 3 points off 4th and it can go either way. More of the same (finish
6th, but hey it was are unluckiest season ever!) or crack on get some silverware
and a Champions league position.

tbh, I'm satisfied with that. 4th and a trophy is fine at our current stage of development.
We can't be man City overnight & United is a well-oiled machine that has been running
non-stop for 20 years!

If we get neither though, I'm crossing over to your side of the fence. Redknapp is an
good average manager, Villas Boas is a complete newbie and Wenger cannot be
taken seriously any more, imo. So if we're outside 4th it's not good enough and the table
will not have lied come the start of May (unless it turns out aliens were secretly diverting
the ball onto the post as some sort of surreal joke).

In the meantime, I back the manager, coaches and team!

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #534 on: December 26, 2011, 10:29:02 AM »
Me too Ed mate, is, believe it or not, behind the manager and the players. It's just that if you'd asked med whether splashing out  +70 millions on Carrol, Downing and Henderson is good business or if I could see a better use of that money I know what I'd have said. That's where my disappointment lie. It's not about unrealistic expectations, it's about how people go about things at this club.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #535 on: December 26, 2011, 02:46:29 PM »
Senn the teamsheet & bench...Very confident of a result!

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #536 on: December 26, 2011, 03:52:32 PM »
Stil confident knowing full well Kenny won't make a change before the 75th minute? Apalling really. Yet again we're good at making ourselves the laughing stock of the PL. No wil, no urge, no initiatives, no nothing. But there you go playing crap like Maxi and Henderson who contributes next to nothing. Also, Suarez needs to sort it out and start hitting goal. It's not just bad luck.

How this is better than us under Roy I don't know. Please Henry, act NOW!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 03:55:21 PM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #537 on: December 26, 2011, 05:00:58 PM »
Again we manage to make a total embarrassment of ourselves at home. This time against rock bottom Blackburn. Way to ficking go Kenny playing the strolling Henderson yet again, well done Kenny keeping the useless Downing on for 90 minutes, well done keeping the I-can't-score-because-I'm-low-on-confidence Carrol. Well ficking done for keeping Kuijt on the bench throughout the game and only calling on Bellers when it was already too late. I never want to see you in the dugout again.

It's not that we'll miss out on 4th for the 3rd year running, it's the fact we're making a larf of ourselves. The lack of pride, the lack of urge, the lack of quality and the lack of initiative is apalling.

Thank God August is just 8 months away. Can't wait for the new season to start. Lets hope Henry et.al. realise what's happening. I could see it early on last season when we lost to Blackpool and WBA under Kenny. Seems those who said he's been out of the game for too long was bang on.
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Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #538 on: December 26, 2011, 06:42:57 PM »
Dire result...has to be said...bottom club to get a draw is pretty pathetic ...
we need to give our subs more time...how kuyt stays on the bench for the whole game is beyond me..
rafa was like clockwork...62 minute one would come on...all introduced within the next 15 minutes..
how can bellamy do anything in 10 minutes?...any player needs time to start to read the game..

desperately need a striker...carroll cannot be sold but that doesn't give him a god given right to play either...he may come good in a few years time...but John Henry isn't interested in that time scale...
if we're way off the pace for fourth at the end of the season, i don't think kenny will start next season tbh...these are business men and they'll want to see improvement...
some of kenny's buys are helping, some are hindering..time to bite the bullet and play our strongest team...

p.s. Where the hell are the younger players? Sosa et al?

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #539 on: December 27, 2011, 02:05:05 AM »
Yet again we dominated the game but didnt come away with the result.

There is clearly something fundamental wrong in the final third because up until that point I can see very little wrong with these performances.

Its clear we need a goalscorer to play up with Suarez because Suarez's contribution isnt necessarily always going to be goals.

Today I felt all of our players were too willing to take longshots. That is one area I think we need to improve. In recent months we have seen Adam go for glory when we have had players in better shooting positions and in a way i think that may be a small part of it, some players are trying to enhance their own careers by going for glory.

What I will say is that this team is not far from being a very good one. Maybe it will be a case of playing our best players like Bellamy every game, maybe (undoubtedly) we need to continue to strengthen but we are playing some good football, our defence is rock solid and we are creating chances.

This team is a work in progress and clearly Kenny is having difficulty in figuring out how to overcome teams at Anfield. That said fans that cant differentiate between the performances under Kennys Liverpool and the performances under Roys clearly dont watch very many of the games closely because they are worlds apart.