October 22, 2020, 07:33:05 AM

Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 352183 times)

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #750 on: January 15, 2012, 10:43:49 PM »
Dude, I see no point taking this discussion any further. Clearly we are diametrically opposed in our views on the running of the club, its management, captain's capabilities and team members.

If I find anything else of interest to discuss with this small group then I will join in. But new members are rare. It seems this is not a place many want to share their thoughts.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #751 on: January 15, 2012, 10:47:07 PM »
I totally disagree with everything you're saying, Ray.

I picked out just one or two aspects above, in the quote.

You're sh.itting on Rafa for disliking Fergie?  Bloddy ell, though we may all respect what he has achieved, Fergie is disliked passionately by many across the football world.  He's a great football man, but as a human being, he's not particularly well liked.  And you blame Rafa for not liking him, and standing up for our club when Fergie has a go at us?  Bizarre.   If only a few more people had the courage to take Fergie on, we might see a lot more fair play among the FA and their officialdom.

And you claim Rafa played football that was too cautious.  Have you ever watched Valencia?  Have you ever watched us take on England and Europe's finest club sides under Rafa?  Have you ever seen Rafa with access to the very finest talents?  No, we never had the money to spend.  We had a net spend each season of around 16 to 17 million quid.     To compete as well as he did, was close on a miracle.  His sides were well-balanced.  Indeed, that is always the trick.   But many fans think  that our dominant era was always one of hammering the opposition 5-nil each week.  FFS It was often hard fought 1-0 wins (not unlike how United grind out title victories every season, during the run-in between February and May).

Well, you won't need to worry about top class European football anytime soon, nor competing for the Premiership.  You got your wish.  Rafa, our finest manager since the great Bob Paisley, was sacked.  Mediocrity was installed in the dugout.  You got what you wanted.  Enjoy your victory for melancholy and the past.  The battle for common sense, and objectivity, has long since been lost.

I respect your loyalty to the man but can't you see he was too cautios, too stubborn in proving the sun is actually spinning around the world, that he drained the team and the squad of whatever passion they ever had? Did you actually feel he realised what it took to win a game in the PL? Wasn't his tinkering ever a problem to you? Or that he time and agains fielded weak sides against "lesser" teams ahead of CL-games with the invevitable outcome we dropped points thereby losing pace in the hunt for no. 19? Didn't he buy and sell som 80 players during his years? Were they all for free? Was it G & H to told him to do the Fergie-rant? Had he no responsibility for the Parry row and how it panned out? Wasn't it obvious he was so authoritarian that when he needed the players to turn up for him noone did? I could go on but will take rejoice from the fact he wasn't allowed to do more damage to this club than he already did. For all the shiite G & H brought on this club that one they got right. That night in Istanbul got to his head, it just took 2 and a half years for it to show.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #752 on: January 15, 2012, 10:48:25 PM »
Dude, I see no point taking this discussion any further. Clearly we are diametrically opposed in our views on the running of the club, its management, captain's capabilities and team members.

If I find anything else of interest to discuss with this small group then I will join in. But new members are rare. It seems this is not a place many want to share their thoughts.

That may be so but that's one of the reasons I keep coming here. I'd rather chat with 7 or 8 sane people than dozens of non-historical fans.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #753 on: January 15, 2012, 10:49:31 PM »
Dude, I see no point taking this discussion any further. Clearly we are diametrically opposed in our views on the running of the club, its management, captain's capabilities and team members.

If I find anything else of interest to discuss with this small group then I will join in. But new members are rare. It seems this is not a place many want to share their thoughts.

Ray, I realise we have the odd spat on here, but take a look for a week or so at somewhere like TLW (The Liverpool Way) or RAWK where you get banned for not following the party line, or TIA (This Is Anfield) where most of them seem to understand less about football than Henry & Co. 

We may be small, but we're as perfectly formed as you'll get on the forums.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #754 on: January 15, 2012, 10:55:22 PM »
Tes / Martin,

I understand where you're coming from but I really don't want to have a discussion with someone who has the opposite opinion to me on so many aspects of the club. I don't need to visit this place for that. I can go into the offfice tomorrow and talk to a load of Manure supporters. I would have hoped for a few more like-minded people here. I don't visit any other LFC-related forums. There's too much to do in life.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #755 on: January 15, 2012, 11:05:47 PM »
Tes / Martin,

I understand where you're coming from but I really don't want to have a discussion with someone who has the opposite opinion to me on so many aspects of the club. I don't need to visit this place for that. I can go into the offfice tomorrow and talk to a load of Manure supporters. I would have hoped for a few more like-minded people here. I don't visit any other LFC-related forums. There's too much to do in life.

But from an outside view it seems your row is more about the perception of a former manager than the club per se, not? I know I come across as a negative SOB but want nothing more than a club to be proud of. It hurts a lot to admit there's not a lot to be proud of at the moment. We're prisoners of our own history thinking we're a topside by some some sort of divine law. I don't demand the title, hell, I don't even demand 4th but I do demand that signings, formations and team selections is made to maximize the clubs probability to pick up full points.  I think our current manager (and the one before him, and the one before him and the one before him) failed on two or more of those critera.

We need to accept we need to do much more than just building a team here. The club need, more than ever I dare say, a new identity that encapsulates the "Liverpool way" of yesteryears with the conditions of contemporary society and footy. It won't be done lightly but nostalgia and romanticism won't help us further that's for sure. Hope you chose to stay, I'd appreciate it a lot.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #756 on: January 15, 2012, 11:15:35 PM »
Hope you chose to stay, I'd appreciate it a lot.

Snap. Ray, you've been outvoted 2-1, you're staying.  :D   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #757 on: January 15, 2012, 11:21:50 PM »
LOL! I'm humbled. Okay, I'll hang around but you have to play nice.  ;D

In the meantime I have a quiz for you. Name a living manager who has won the English league title (in its various guises) with more than one club.

Answer tomorrow. Clue, there's only one.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #758 on: January 15, 2012, 11:38:00 PM »
LOL! I'm humbled. Okay, I'll hang around but you have to play nice.  ;D

In the meantime I have a quiz for you. Name a living manager who has won the English league title (in its various guises) with more than one club.

Answer tomorrow. Clue, there's only one.

The same one who blew £35M on Andy Carroll.  ;D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #759 on: January 15, 2012, 11:42:54 PM »
The same one who blew £35M on Andy Carroll.  ;D
Okay, I'll ignore the obvious wind-up.  :D Doesn't that tell you something? If he can win it with two different teams he must have greater skills than he's getting credit for here. The only other one in the second half of the 20th century was Brian Clough. That's how hard it is.

Here's another question for you. Do you believe we would have offered NUFC £35M for Carroll if we hadn't just been paid £50M for Torres? If you reply yes the men in white coats will be along shortly. I'm off to bed.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #760 on: January 15, 2012, 11:48:52 PM »
Here's another question for you. Do you believe we would have offered NUFC £35M for Carroll if we hadn't just been paid £50M for Torres? If you reply yes the men in white coats will be along shortly. I'm off to bed.

In many ways that makes it worse. We don't see £50M very often so to spend it in that way seems rather negligent.

He's another question. Why, when we didn't have a permanent manager was Comolli or Dalglish allowed to spend so much on one player, and also on the type of player that totally dictates your whole style of play?
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #761 on: January 16, 2012, 12:07:08 AM »
Tes / Martin,

I understand where you're coming from but I really don't want to have a discussion with someone who has the opposite opinion to me on so many aspects of the club. I don't need to visit this place for that. I can go into the offfice tomorrow and talk to a load of Manure supporters. I would have hoped for a few more like-minded people here. I don't visit any other LFC-related forums. There's too much to do in life.

no, you want to impose your views on others.  I let it slide earlier this season.  But I am not letting you off with it this time round.

go visit a few other forums and you'll find a broad range of opinions.  This place is like a monastery compared to the wars going on in other places.

if you don't want to listen/hear the views, and interact, with others, then I suggest you forget about online forums.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #762 on: January 16, 2012, 12:25:17 AM »
Dude, I see no point taking this discussion any further. Clearly we are diametrically opposed in our views on the running of the club, its management, captain's capabilities and team members.

If I find anything else of interest to discuss with this small group then I will join in. But new members are rare. It seems this is not a place many want to share their thoughts.

Ray, believe me, if you don't like it in here, you will absolutely hate it (with a passion) in other forums. 

I have chatted in all the big forums, for 15 plus years.  Heck, if you go back and include usenet, I have been chatting in Liverpool forums for near 20 years.  You ought to see the ferocity in those places.  And over the years, the owners/moderators become Hitlers and ban people for the most frivolous of reasons.  This small forum is heaven in comparison. 

I could tell you some stories, about other places, that would make you wince.

In all the big forums, you eventually (well, a significant majority of regulars) end up getting banned.  A red card will always come your way, sooner or later.

We may not agree on anything about the club.  But you're still welcome to come visit and drink beers in paradise. 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #763 on: January 16, 2012, 01:06:50 AM »
LOL, amid all the talk of him being the greatest player we ever had
last week and (ok, bit cynical here  :D ) him pulling out all the stops turn
of year to secure his lucrative new contract....and then he has no answers
against Stoke!
Did he leave the pitch yesterday feeling he'd done enough, is he beating himself
up about his contribution today, wondering why the f.uck he had to shoot from
40 yards out (he's probably just upset it didn't go in).

 :)

oh I know.

ask yourself, how many times do truly world class players, like Messi or Maradona, come up short against the likes of a Stoke?

because Gerrard is english, the media build him into something that he is not.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #764 on: January 16, 2012, 05:51:12 PM »
no, you want to impose your views on others.  I let it slide earlier this season.  But I am not letting you off with it this time round.
Oooh, I'm scared. On the contrary I think it's you that is imposing your views on us. Your repeated negative opinion of Gerrard, praising Rafa but ignoring his shortcomings and demanding the sacking of our current manager have been made time and time again. We get it. There's no need to hammer the point home.

Quote
go visit a few other forums and you'll find a broad range of opinions.  This place is like a monastery compared to the wars going on in other places. if you don't want to listen/hear the views, and interact, with others, then I suggest you forget about online forums.

I have more important things to do. I don't have a problem listening and responding to others' views but I don't see the point of repeating your opinions when they're well known by all who visit this place.
Cheers,
Ray