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Author Topic: Season 2011 - 2012  (Read 352714 times)

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #765 on: January 16, 2012, 08:07:42 PM »
One of the reasons i like this forum is because there are viewpoints diametrically opposed to each other...
if we all sing from one hymn sheet it would get very dull indeed...
we're all passionate about one thing...Liverpool football club
sometimes we get angry or happy at different results...and when we play well we can glory in it and when we play badly then we can criticize...we have had some good times this season and some very disappointing ones...most of us thought that we were in the mix for fourth at the start of the season and when we beat manure, chelski, arsenal and man city we obviously look at the likes of stoke, norwich et al as there for the taking...that we don't then requires us too look at why we didn't beat them and then that is fair game...

On the positive side we have seen a very solid defense form ...
Enrique and Bellamy were the cheapest players and the best buys...
Adam (also cheap) will always be a good squad player...
Henderson could be an eventual excellent buy, but should not have been played every game as he also has much to learn...
Downing has been pretty lacklustre and for some reason plays nearly every game...
Carroll who couldn't get a game at the start of the season now has a unique chance to show what he can do...why he didn't play against stoke is odd to say the least...carroll should play all the games where suarez is banned and try to make it difficult for kenny to chose when suarez comes back...that he isn't picked doesn't say much for his future...to play kuyt instead after being ignored for much of the season can't be good for confidence for both players (carroll for not being picked and kuyt for not being able to have an effect on the game due to rustiness/lack of confidence etc)...

on the negative side of that Maxi has been criminally underused this season as has Kuyt (which has seriously affected his form - though he can still get in the number 2 rated in the world Holland squad)...
we sold meireles cos he wanted more than 40k wages (fair enough that he wanted more money considering how good he was and that we're paying cole 110k!)...
we're pretty pathetic infront of goal...

We need a better midfield..a creative midfielder at the very least...
We need a goal poacher...how many times have crosses gone in and no one has been even close to sticking it in the net...
We need a serious chunk of luck but luck can be created if you play a balanced team...then luck falls in place...just look at manure and how spawny they are...

We're close to the precipice or glory...there is a very fine divide...and only one person can get that right...if he adapts and learns then any criticism can fall silent...
if however he continues the negatives above then come the end of the season and we haven't made progress then questions will be asked...and more importantly they should be asked..
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 08:11:38 PM by barticus »

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #766 on: January 16, 2012, 08:15:25 PM »
High above the Grand Canyon on a cheese wire, Barticus needs no aids to show perfect balance.

A really enjoyable read, Barticus, that sums things up nicely.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #767 on: January 16, 2012, 08:40:21 PM »
Good post Barticus. I know I'm not perfect but I rarely attract the attention of moderators and I do post on several forums for other personal interests.

I've always tried not to worry about things I have no control over. It's pointless, you just give yourself a coronary. That's why I see no point in bashing the manager or players. No-one who has any influence is listening. You might as well scream at the top of your voice in the middle of a desert. The effect on the club is the same.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #768 on: January 17, 2012, 12:09:59 AM »
On the contrary I think it's you that is imposing your views on us. Your repeated negative opinion of Gerrard, praising Rafa but ignoring his shortcomings and demanding the sacking of our current manager have been made time and time again. We get it. There's no need to hammer the point home.

I have more important things to do. I don't have a problem listening and responding to others' views but I don't see the point of repeating your opinions when they're well known by all who visit this place.

who the hell is this royal WE and the US that you refer to?  Each one of us speaks for ourselves. 

Ironically, I don't see anyone else who holds your perspective in here.   I am not the one who is isolated in here, on all the major issues.  I am not the one who fails to interact/discuss, or is unable to take others views on board.

e.g.  every single regular I see in here (apart from you) is asking serious questions of our manager, and reckons hard questions will have to be asked come the end of the season.   

Only YOU feels that "the £112M (spent) means nothing to me. It's not my money."   What is the point of not wanting to have any view on our transfer activity or budget?   Life in a forum like this would get exceptionally boring, if we ignore all the big issues (like transfer activity) and just spent our time up at the communion table, drinking our wine and scoffing the wafers.

When people reference issues on your Gods, you ignore them (like Ed on Gerrard in the last day or two).  You ignore the aspects referenced (in this case, Gerrard's long dramatic run to keep the ball in play against Stoke, and then the long hollywood ball down the pitch, that as usual went to the opposition).   You'll ignore Ed on the issue, but will typically roll your eyes or target me, if I reference it.   

You'll make up stuff and claim, for example, that I have nothing good to say about Dalglish (or Gerrard).....when all the evidence points to the opposite (e.g. how many times have I said that Dalglish and Souness are my two all-time favourite Liverpool players)  But you always ignore this, when you try and pigeon-hole/taint me.

You'll claim that I worship Rafa and  never acknowledge that he had negatives.  Again, all the evidence points to the opposite.  I often reference Rafa's limitations. 

But then again, I wonder if you truly understand (or appreciate) what forums are about, when you say: "I've always tried not to worry about things I have no control over. It's pointless, you just give yourself a coronary. That's why I see no point in bashing the manager or players. No-one who has any influence is listening. You might as well scream at the top of your voice in the middle of a desert."

Forums are for discussing issues.  They are for the coming together of a wide spectrum of viewpoints.   And yes, YOUR viewpoint is one of those, and it is something that is to be respected.  But just as I respect your view, and your right to say it, you should show some respect for my view. 

And yes, you will always be welcome to come drink beer, and play pool, here in paradise. 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #769 on: January 17, 2012, 02:15:49 AM »
When people reference issues on your Gods, you ignore them (like Ed on Gerrard in the last day or two).  You ignore the aspects referenced (in this case, Gerrard's long dramatic run to keep the ball in play against Stoke, and then the long hollywood ball down the pitch, that as usual went to the opposition).   You'll ignore Ed on the issue, but will typically roll your eyes or target me, if I reference it.   
LOL, well of course I'm going to pick Stevie G up on that!  :D

I don't flow along with the smooth talking commentator backed up by the ex-player
co-commentator that never have a bad word to say about Stephen.

Get real, he's captain of the side and we've drawn against Stoke at home & aside from skewing
one well wide from 40 yards he indulges in that headless chicken Hollywood chicanery from
the touchline....I just explode with contempt for that kind of Ego-driven brainless bullsh.it.

We want 3 points not picture postcard Roy of the rovers whatever. He should be out there
rolling his sleeves up and driving us on to a result (does anyone remember the young Gerrard when
he came on the scene?). Daniel Agger's the man for that kind of stuff & should imo be captain! Period.

But no, you'll hear this that and the other about what a marvellous, wonderful, inspiring captain
he is. Who gives a monkey's WE WANT TO WIN THE LEAGUE & it starts with getting 3 points at
home! No excuses. 

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #770 on: January 17, 2012, 03:28:27 AM »
I don't flow along with the smooth talking commentator backed up by the ex-player
co-commentator that never have a bad word to say about Stephen.

Get real, he's captain of the side and we've drawn against Stoke at home & aside from skewing
one well wide from 40 yards he indulges in that headless chicken Hollywood chicanery from
the touchline....I just explode with contempt for that kind of Ego-driven brainless bullsh.it.

We want 3 points not picture postcard Roy of the rovers whatever.

 :D

yes, there was a player/manager some 20 plus years ago, Bryan Hamilton.  From N Ireland.  He played for Ipswich and managed a few teams after he hung up his boots.  But he was infamous (well I picked up on it anyway) for never rocking the boat and sitting on the fence, when he did occasional radio/tv commentaries in the 80s/90s. 

When someone would miss an open goal, or do something daft, rather than say something normal, he would say "the lad will be disappointed with that"  or "he'll feel that he could have done better"   

FFS  "the lad" has maybe missed an open goal, in the final minute of injury time, to win Notts Forest the European Cup.....and he merely will be "disappointed with himself"?????!!!!!!!

And with Sky taking over in the early 90's, these past 20 years have now seen Hamilton'ism as now the normal mode of commentary/punditry.    Whatever you say, say nothing.  Don't say anything controversial.  Don't say anything against the football industry, or those who ply their trade in it.  Don't talk in first party terms, speak in third party terms.   Speak of others possible feelings/emotions, on an issue,  not your own.  And if you have time to fill, speak endlessly of Motson-type-drivel-data, that no sensible person (beyond trainspotters) will have the remotest bit of interest in.

But if you want to remain in this industry, you risk all if you don't play by their rules.    If you don't run with the herd, you are gonna get targetted, as being controversial (and demoted to radio).    Do not dare hold a view, in this modern consumer-driven world of big-business owned sports. 


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #771 on: January 17, 2012, 03:28:06 PM »
I should probably add that I thought the way he
trapped the ball and fired off a low curler from the
edge of the box against City in the CC was the best
piece of skill I've seen in ages (the speed at which
he did that, incredible!  :o).


Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #772 on: January 17, 2012, 04:36:40 PM »
who the hell is this royal WE and the US that you refer to?  Each one of us speaks for ourselves. 
I'll retract the WE because I don't speak for others but the US stands as you post to everyone, not just me.

Quote
Ironically, I don't see anyone else who holds your perspective in here.   I am not the one who is isolated in here, on all the major issues.  I am not the one who fails to interact/discuss, or is unable to take others views on board.
What perspective would that be? That I won't hammer the manager or players for a poor performance? No, I won't because they're human beings and not machines. We make mistakes or make errors of judgement but we're not subject to public scrutiny. I don't see the fact that their performances are broadcast as reason to castigate them when they make a wrong decision. So yes, if I'm the only person here who feels like that then so be it. I see no reason to apologise for that.

I interact when I 1) have time and 2) feel I want to. You can't castigate someone for not interacting as often as others. I feel I'm contributed plenty to this forum and don't feel I have to answer to you.

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e.g.  every single regular I see in here (apart from you) is asking serious questions of our manager, and reckons hard questions will have to be asked come the end of the season.
I'm prepared to give them time. You clearly are not. That doesn't make you right and me wrong. Some of those players have played well in many games but not all. Every club has players like that.

Quote
What is the point of not wanting to have any view on our transfer activity or budget?   Life in a forum like this would get exceptionally boring, if we ignore all the big issues (like transfer activity) and just spent our time up at the communion table, drinking our wine and scoffing the wafers.
I want quality players in and when they do arrive I may post an opinion on them. Or I may not. That's up to me.

Quote
When people reference issues on your Gods, you ignore them (like Ed on Gerrard in the last day or two).  You ignore the aspects referenced (in this case, Gerrard's long dramatic run to keep the ball in play against Stoke, and then the long hollywood ball down the pitch, that as usual went to the opposition).   You'll ignore Ed on the issue, but will typically roll your eyes or target me, if I reference it.
Because Ed isn't banging on about it time and time again. I can't comment on the Stoke game 'cos I didn't see the incident.
Quote
You'll make up stuff and claim, for example, that I have nothing good to say about Dalglish (or Gerrard).....when all the evidence points to the opposite (e.g. how many times have I said that Dalglish and Souness are my two all-time favourite Liverpool players)  But you always ignore this, when you try and pigeon-hole/taint me.
Dalglish as a player is quite different to Dalglish as a manager. You called him a lemon if my memory serves me correct. Yet you say a club needs stability so shouldn't sack a manager if things don't go well immediately. What's Souness got to do with your criticism of Gerrard???

Quote
You'll claim that I worship Rafa and  never acknowledge that he had negatives.  Again, all the evidence points to the opposite.  I often reference Rafa's limitations.
Then why would you want him back? Or perhaps you just didn't want him sacked. I can understand the latter but the former isn't going to happen.

Quote
But then again, I wonder if you truly understand (or appreciate) what forums are about...
You've got a bloody nerve. Of course I know what they're about. I've posted thousands of messages in other forums not related to football and never received comments like I have from you.

Quote
Forums are for discussing issues.  They are for the coming together of a wide spectrum of viewpoints.   And yes, YOUR viewpoint is one of those, and it is something that is to be respected.  But just as I respect your view, and your right to say it, you should show some respect for my view.

I respect your right to say what you think but I do disagree with the frequency you repeat it. It's almost like if you keep saying often enough I'll eventually agree with you. I won't.

I'm going into lurk mode for a while.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #773 on: January 17, 2012, 08:10:00 PM »
High above the Grand Canyon on a cheese wire, Barticus needs no aids to show perfect balance.

A really enjoyable read, Barticus, that sums things up nicely.

Two sides to each story...view each point but enjoy the opposites...through the conviction of people's passion and through the strength of their argument then we can be swayed. That in itself is a true forum and not one for the useless eater sheep...saying baaaahh in a field is not for me and i enjoy the passion of (sometimes) opposed views such as dude and martinmarx in the RED CORNER and in the BLUE CORNER Asi and Juan...
We all are impassioned when it comes to something we really care about...and that's LFC...
I really wouldn't want anything else...

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #774 on: January 18, 2012, 03:09:34 PM »
Here is an article from Paul Tomkins. I dont subscribe to his site so its only a section of the article but you get the gist;

http://tomkinstimes.com/2012/01/why-dalglish-is-doing-a-good-job/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheTomkinsTimes+%28The+Tomkins+Times%29

By Paul Tomkins.

When arguing that Rafa Benítez was doing a good job (and often a very good job), I often observed how wrong it was to expect Liverpool to automatically return to the glory days. Too much had changed between 1991, when Kenny resigned with the Reds reigning champions, and 2004, when Rafa arrived.

Anyone who thought Kenny was going to work miracles has been reminded of his mortality. However, this doesn’t mean that he isn’t doing a good job.

Equally, he’s not doing a flawless job, but being Kenny, there’s a tension where some fans think him beyond criticism and others want to go too far in the other direction (in trying to break this perceived omertà). Stony silence shouldn’t be the case – his record and signings are there to be assessed, like those of any other manager – but equally, he should be judged on the situation he inherited, not the one he left 20 years ago, or the one where we were regular Champions League qualifiers until last season.

This season, in the Premier League at least, he’s doing roughly the same as last season – and considerably better than the man he replaced. He had the natural boost of his reappointment, where everyone was relieved that Hodgson had gone and the King was back; and when that wore off, he had some money to spend in the summer, albeit not without having to prune the wage bill. The injury to Steven Gerrard – who is still not match-fit, as seen against Stoke – and the suspension of Suarez has meant that, with other absentees, he’s yet to even start his strongest side.

Therefore I believe that, overall, he’s doing a good job, if not yet a ‘great’ one.

Dalglish didn’t do too well in the cups last season; an away tie at Manchester United was (not unexpectedly) lost, not least once suffering an iffy penalty and an early red card to Gerrard. The Uefa Cup exit at the hands of eventual finalists Braga was disappointing, mind. Roy Hodgson’s only relative success at Liverpool was in that competition, albeit against mostly substandard opposition in the easier early rounds.

This season, Dalglish has steered Liverpool to League Cup victories over Stoke (away), Chelsea (away) and Manchester City (away), and even though it’s a devalued cup that would not normally be high on our list of priorities, those are never easy games.

While Liverpool’s league home record has been surprisingly poor (albeit whilst still remaining unbeaten), the overall record is still pretty good. It’s heading in the right direction, albeit not at breakneck speed. Playing good football and creating chances hasn’t been a problem, but finishing them off has.

The rest of this post, which looks at various issues, is for Subscribers only.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #775 on: January 18, 2012, 07:48:14 PM »
Here is an article from Paul Tomkins. I dont subscribe to his site so its only a section of the article but you get the gist;
Cheers Juan!

I don't subscribe to the notion that remaining unbeaten at home is something
to aspire to if it means drawing every game! Tbh, to all intents and purposes, imo,
Stoke beat us last weekend! Anyway it's a long old season yet and we can't judge 'til
we see the full picture.

I would also point out, however, that Chelsea were 'til now missing Essien and lots
of other sides have had worse injury problems than us. Good managers cope with
these things, great managers excel in such situations (it's not a dig at Kenny, just a
silly argument by Tomkins, imo).

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #776 on: January 18, 2012, 08:08:32 PM »
I think we have to re-evaluate the league. There used to be a very obvious top four (of which we were a permanent fixture) but now there is a very definite top six, with Newcastle attempting to extend it to seven this season.

Whilst our historic top four rivals have pretty much stayed at par, Man City have found wealth, Spurs have steadily spent and strengthen whilst we have been dismantling the basis of a very good team (Alonso, Mascherano, Arbeloa, Torres, Meireles) and in addition have not spent our variable available transfer funds as well as we could have.

To break the top four we need to finish ahead of two teams, where previously we could afford to finish the worst of four.

If we can bag the League Cup (and I want it so much because IT'S A TROPHY) it does two, possibly three things.
1) We have a trophy to show for the season (isn't that the whole point of our existance).
2) We secure European football of sorts (better than this season at least)

3) It would take the pressure off us in the league and it may just be the difference maker needed as both 
    Chelsea and Arsenal are still involved in the CL.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #777 on: January 18, 2012, 08:11:14 PM »
I would also point out, however, that Chelsea were 'til now missing Essien and lots
of other sides have had worse injury problems than us. Good managers cope with
these things, great managers excel in such situations (it's not a dig at Kenny, just a
silly argument by Tomkins, imo).

Good point, Ed.  Oranges need to be compared to oranges. It's a perfectly valid point and in no way is a dig at Dalglish. It's merely a fact.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #778 on: January 19, 2012, 03:30:51 PM »
Does anyone really take a word Tomkins say seriously? That man is pathetic beyod belief. If we were to get relegated I've no doubts he'd make it sound like something good. He's a good larf tho, gorra give him that.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2011 - 2012
« Reply #779 on: January 19, 2012, 03:54:19 PM »
Does anyone really take a word Tomkins say seriously? That man is pathetic beyod belief. If we were to get relegated I've no doubts he'd make it sound like something good. He's a good larf tho, gorra give him that.

God loves a tryer, so he must also love an eternal optimist.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.