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Author Topic: Commentary on the games through the season....  (Read 209595 times)

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #750 on: February 27, 2011, 07:16:13 PM »
Bitch Bitch Bitch Moan Moan Moan

Is that all you ever do? Yeah I'm disappointed with the result like everyone else but apart from the recent win at Chelski you've done nothing but criticise, why don't you write to the Liverpool board and tell them exactly where they are going wrong and how you'd fix it on a shoestring budget and the players you'd bring in to replace the mediocrity that you find throughout the squad with your own brand of fantasy football

So fed up with the anti-intellecutal "shoestring budget" argument. What then about Blackpool, Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves and West Ham? They prolly spent a 10th the last 5 years we did the last 2 months. Not that that prevented them from outplaying us. We've let this club been run by continental sci-fi wizards adopting an extremly instrumental perspective on footy for over a decade. True enough, it won us some success but at the sametime slowly drained us on the identity that saw us once claim to be the bestest side in English footy (it's just a matter of months, or weeks, rather til that's history). That's why we time and again turn up a side of 11 individuals totally unable to dig deep when the going gets tough, that's why it's time and again (for the past 3-4 years) been almost impossible to distinguish us from a relegatin side (provided we played one).

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Offline Kopite999

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Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #751 on: February 27, 2011, 08:09:30 PM »
We werent good but they'll be a few more performances like that before the end of the season. We bought a couple in in January but it'll take a lot more to get this squad up to where we think they should be. We just need to be patient. We only won a couple of away matches in 2010 and we've already one 2 this year. Kennys a king not a magician

Offline Tes

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #752 on: February 27, 2011, 08:56:58 PM »
Our unbeaten run was always going to end, as was our recent excellent record of goals conceded.

So now it's gone with a bang, we'll build again. Even if we get every aspect of the re-building process right first time, it's going to take time.

Martin, you're going to need to stock up on patience. Destruction is always a much, much quicker process than construction.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #753 on: February 28, 2011, 08:36:37 AM »
Our unbeaten run was always going to end, as was our recent excellent record of goals conceded.

So now it's gone with a bang, we'll build again. Even if we get every aspect of the re-building process right first time, it's going to take time.

Martin, you're going to need to stock up on patience. Destruction is always a much, much quicker process than construction.

It's wearin thin, tes. It's not that we don't get the results, it's the way we go about things, or don't rather. Here we go - Blackpool x 2, Stoke, Wolves, Blackburn, Newcy, Wigan1-1 x2, narrow and somewhat lucky wins at home against Fulham and WBA, the list goes on.  None of these sides could beat us on quality, none. Yet they do, and quite frequently so. Why? Because they want it so God damn more than we do. I honestly don't think it's more complicated than that. We don't have the will or the ability to bring that will out when needed. The reasons for that is probably many. I'll list a couple below:

* The GH and Rafa years. Both managers firm believers in a perspective where scientific calculation and analysis will ultimately provide the winning equation. A highly instrumental perspective that runs anatema to the more collective approach adopted by Fergie. Over time, our squad has been unable to gel in a natural way leaving players confused and drained of confidence when asked to step forward.

*The players. As a result of having instrumental managers, it's no wonders our players have been short on character. True there's Gerrard, Carra and Kuijt. But other than that  most of our squad for most part of the 00's looked content with things no matter what. Heard this anecdot as a kid back in the early 80's Sir Bob had it, it wasn't diffcult to spot a good player. It was a matter of weeks. Finding out whether he had the social abilities and qualities, howeve, could take up to two years. More of that me thinks.

I don't know. But my feeling is we need to start all over. We need to throw away the idea we're a top side. We need to accept it'll be 4-7 years without European footy where, instead, we're building for the future. Or we can harp on like this falling behind little by little as the seasons goes past. I don't mind spending a few years in the midtable region as long as there's a clear and coherent plan, as long as you can see slow but steady improvement in accordance with that plan. This shine-a-light we tried for over a decade must come to an end that's all that really matters to me right now.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 08:39:47 AM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #754 on: February 28, 2011, 10:09:10 AM »
First off respect goes out to Dean Richards, I was shocked to learn that he had passed away and as always when somebody like that dies young it puts results like yesterday into perspective for importance.

As for yesterdays game I agree with Tes, Kopite, Redman we are going to need patience. Martin I can understand your frustrations, I also understand that many of the players in our squad arent good enough but did we really expect that Kenny would be able to transform everything over night. For the rest of the season its going to be a case of small steps. We all probably got a bit carried away after the Chelsea result and 4th place didnt seem impossible. Any notions of CL football are surely gone. Kennys objective for the rest of the season is going to be finish as high as possible in the league and attempt to win the Europa Cup. Had we been offered a 6th place finish during Roys tenure we would have taken it in a second. Kenny is also going to use the next few months to confirm who is good enough to stay and who doesnt seem to maintain the consistency required to play for the club. 

Had we still been under Hodgsons reign or still owned by Hicks and Gillett results like yesterday would have been very hard to take but now there are too many positives on the horizon to stay downbeat. Any progression between now and the summer will be a bonus but  its only during the summer Id expect to see major changes taking place. The fact tht we signed Suarez and Carroll yet only spent 2 million net means the owners have yet to dig into their own pockets. And with many players most likely heading out of the club chances are Kenny could end up having 50, 60 even 70 million to transform the fortunes of the club. Despite yesterdays loss the future unquestionably looks very very bright.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #755 on: February 28, 2011, 11:17:32 AM »
Agree to disagree then Juan. I hear what you say and I respect your opinion. I do not share your optimism as I find it to be rather unfounded and based on wishful thinking. I'm not saying that in a patronising manner, not at all. More out of jealousy to be honest. I wish I could spot anything that gives me reason to look forward with optimism.

I was a tad sad to read your finishing lines. Haven't this method of trying to buy success proved fatal in the last decade. We can't buy no. 19 mate, we're not that close. Not at all. We need an identity. We need player like Charle Adam, we need players with character and heart rather than high wage demands. We need player who truly hate to lose and especially so when in a red shirt. That's why I say we need to start over from scratch. We need a TEAM, not a group of individuals. We need to replace Stevie lad in a few years. Problem is, he can't be replaced. You won't find a player like him. That's why we need to do the basic homework and build a TEAM where they players rely on themselves just like the next bloke. THEN and only then should we look to buy big.

We agree in as much it'll be time tho. I say we won't make top4 on this side of 2015. Agree?
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Offline Kopite999

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Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #756 on: February 28, 2011, 03:45:24 PM »
I think there's a chance we might see champions league football in 2013/14 season but can't really see us getting it before. But it's football and it's a funny old game. And we need to have faith in the owners. I don't reckon they are here to just make up the numbers. They're here to win things and that's got to be good for us all

Offline Redman

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #757 on: February 28, 2011, 05:05:29 PM »
So fed up with the anti-intellecutal "shoestring budget" argument. What then about Blackpool, Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves and West Ham? They prolly spent a 10th the last 5 years we did the last 2 months. Not that that prevented them from outplaying us. We've let this club been run by continental sci-fi wizards adopting an extremly instrumental perspective on footy for over a decade. True enough, it won us some success but at the sametime slowly drained us on the identity that saw us once claim to be the bestest side in English footy (it's just a matter of months, or weeks, rather til that's history). That's why we time and again turn up a side of 11 individuals totally unable to dig deep when the going gets tough, that's why it's time and again (for the past 3-4 years) been almost impossible to distinguish us from a relegatin side (provided we played one).

What I don't understand is that it's the very same squad you sang their praises for when the beat Chelski 1-0 just a few weeks ago, you can't come back after a defeat and start screaming for every man and his dog to be sacked and saying how useless they all are.
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Offline Kopite999

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Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #758 on: February 28, 2011, 05:32:58 PM »
I agree with you there redman. The problem we've got is that we do have some quality just not enough of it in the squad. At the beginning of last year we played spurs and everyone was highlighting the lack of depth on our bench compared to spurs. Since then we've lost a couple of world class players. This season might not be our best but if Suarez and carrol can bed in it will set them up nicely ready for the next campaign.

Players I'd keep for next season:

Reina
Kelly
carra
Agger
Johnson
Meireles
Gerrard
Kuyt
Carrol
Suarez
Lucas
Shelvey
Cole

As far as I'm concerned the other 11/12 in the squad can go.

If we can get 5 quality players on top of the above ones and supplement that with the young lads then personally I don't think we'd be in bad shape. Don't get me wrong the rebuilding won't all happen this summer. But I'm certain come kick off next season we'll be a much better side

Offline Edward224

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #759 on: February 28, 2011, 10:44:32 PM »
It might be easier to say who I would discard. I put it into 2 categories. 1:- has to go and 2:- should a decent offer come in, wouldn't be adverse to selling. (not including Aquilani and Insua, of which I am assuming both go.)

In the first category:-

Aurelio
Jovanovic
Kyrgiakos
Poulsen
Skrtel

In the second category:-

Johnson
Jones
Cole
Pacheco
Maxi
Kuyt
N'gog


Offline Tes

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #760 on: March 01, 2011, 12:52:31 AM »
I think there's a chance we might see champions league football in 2013/14 season but can't really see us getting it before.

Is that how long it takes to get Sky all connected up nowadays? I'm glad I cancelled it years ago if that's the case.
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Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #761 on: March 01, 2011, 01:06:32 AM »
Agree to disagree then Juan. I hear what you say and I respect your opinion. I do not share your optimism as I find it to be rather unfounded and based on wishful thinking. I'm not saying that in a patronising manner, not at all. More out of jealousy to be honest. I wish I could spot anything that gives me reason to look forward with optimism.

I was a tad sad to read your finishing lines. Haven't this method of trying to buy success proved fatal in the last decade. We can't buy no. 19 mate, we're not that close. Not at all. We need an identity. We need player like Charle Adam, we need players with character and heart rather than high wage demands. We need player who truly hate to lose and especially so when in a red shirt. That's why I say we need to start over from scratch. We need a TEAM, not a group of individuals. We need to replace Stevie lad in a few years. Problem is, he can't be replaced. You won't find a player like him. That's why we need to do the basic homework and build a TEAM where they players rely on themselves just like the next bloke. THEN and only then should we look to buy big.

We agree in as much it'll be time tho. I say we won't make top4 on this side of 2015. Agree?

2015 might not be far off but again I think it could be a little on the glass is half empty side of things. I'm looking at the situation from the glass is half full view so I think we will qualify for the Champions League before 2015. I think in Kennys first two months in charge there has been enough there to suggest that with 4 or 5 quality players the team will be able to go on the type of run that could help us achieve at least 4th.

I also think you confuse the end of my last post with reagrds to transfer spending or buying the league. I would never expect the owners to indulge in a Sheik or Roman style spending spree nor would I like them to. However I dont see the problem in spending 50-70 million if the cash is generated from a) an initial cash injection for transfers from the new owners b) selling players and c) from profits generated by the club. Thats alot different than the owners handing Kenny 70 million and telling him to buy the league. I believe as many as 10 or more players could go, that alone could generate in excess of 30 million.

But as you say it will take time and I really think the parnership of FSG and Kenny could be the combo that finally brings us sustained success.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #762 on: March 01, 2011, 12:54:12 PM »
So fed up with the anti-intellecutal "shoestring budget" argument.
there has never been anything remotely intellectual about your arguments.


What then about Blackpool, Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves and West Ham? They prolly spent a 10th the last 5 years we did the last 2 months. Not that that prevented them from outplaying us.
so what about blackpool, wigan, wolves, blackburn and west ham?  how many league titles, fa cups, and european cups have they won?  Oh yeah, that's right, even if they were all added together, pretty much fr.ig all.

We've let this club been run by continental sci-fi wizards adopting an extremly instrumental perspective on footy for over a decade. True enough, it won us some success but at the sametime slowly drained us on the identity that saw us once claim to be the bestest side in English footy (it's just a matter of months, or weeks, rather til that's history).

sci-fi wizards?  what planet do you call home.

go and support Man Utd, City or Chelsea....and have all your plastic support and spending fetish needs met.

That's why we time and again turn up a side of 11 individuals totally unable to dig deep when the going gets tough, that's why it's time and again (for the past 3-4 years) been almost impossible to distinguish us from a relegatin side (provided we played one).

even blo.ody gaddafi and charlie sheen make more sense than you, martin.

the fact that absolutely no-one in here has ever remotely agreed with you, should alert your *intellectual* powers of reasoning. 

I am fed up making excuses for you; and trying to keep you onside. 

You are utterly depressing to read.  Indeed I keep thinking you are a troll - possibly a Man Utd fan, deliberately trying to cause annoyance in here.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 12:55:16 PM by the dude abides »
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #763 on: March 01, 2011, 02:14:54 PM »
Just because my thoughts aren't kosher, doesn't mean they're not correct. I have the evidence to back up what I'm saying. GH had us play hoofball, Rafa never understood the importance of man management and togetherness hence we had nothing to show last spring while 4th was still in the pot. I can pick at least 15 games last season where you couldn't tell us from a bottom half side. Each club has a couple of those games, not as many as we do.

We have a squad, we have a line-up, but we don't have a TEAM. You can think of me whatever you want, I don't care. Fact of the matter is our record the past 18 months speaks for itself. I have no interest in deluding myself to think we're a topside when there's so little evidence to support such a stance.

Let the namecalling commence.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #764 on: March 01, 2011, 02:31:28 PM »
sci-fi wizards?  what planet do you call home.

go and support Man Utd, City or Chelsea....and have all your plastic support and spending fetish needs met.
 
even blo.ody gaddafi and charlie sheen make more sense than you, martin.

ROFL, Hilarious Dude!

The West Ham result was very disappointing though not entirely unexpected!

FFS, this guy Wilson thrown in at the deep end......Jamie C could hardly focus on his own game having to keep fight fires that Wilson was creating (However, it's a bit scary how easily he was beaten by Cole for the Winner)

Gerrard wasn't at the races.....v. poor (does way more harm than good!)

Great to see Kelly bombing down the wing though and the new system also appears to suit Johnson!

It's funny Suarez needs time to adjust to the physicality of the Prem. (a smart player, with an eye for goal), but during this time defenders will be adjusting to him. Interesting to see who comes out on top!

Anyway, my impression from the game was that we have a team that loves to do the complicated flicks (Cole, Suarez, Meireles, Gerrard).....retaining possession and controlling the game away from home needs to be drilled in to them! GET THE BASICS RIGHT!!

Credit to West Ham, Avram Grant, & Scotty Parker.....They gave us a lesson in winning football games!