Commentary on the games through the season....

[Ageing Stick Insect]

Reina, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Kuyt, Spearing, Lucas, Meireles, Suarez, Carroll

Geez, surely that's by far the weakest side we've fielded against a top side in the last two decades?

We need every player to perform well above their true level while, at the same time, City's having an off nite. Then and only then do we have a chance to avoid getting well and truly trashed.

It's almost heartbreaking to see that starting line-up.

Classic quote from Martin!!  So my cheery friend. What did you think of the performance? I'd agree with you that it was heartbreaking ..... for City!! 

The first 45 minutes was probably our best performance of the season. Top marks all round especially for Flanagan with a performance of poise and maturity. Suarez deserved a goal and Kuyt was everywhere. But I shouldn't single out any one player because they all played brilliantly.

Over to chuckles...

[Tes]

Strange, when people want to see us produce youngsters and then when we play them, moan that the team looks weak.

If Flanagan plays the last few games and performs as well, then we have a second major positive alongside Kelly to come out of the season.

Made up for Andy Carroll getting off the mark.

[Tes]

Reina, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Kuyt, Spearing, Lucas, Meireles, Suarez, Carroll

Geez, surely that's by far the weakest side we've fielded against a top side in the last two decades?

We need every player to perform well above their true level while, at the same time, City's having an off nite. Then and only then do we have a chance to avoid getting well and truly trashed.

It's almost heartbreaking to see that starting line-up.

I prescribe prozac.

Martin, please re-post this before every match. Your negativity produced such positivity tonight.

[Edward224]

Reina, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Kuyt, Spearing, Lucas, Meireles, Suarez, Carroll

Geez, surely that's by far the weakest side we've fielded against a top side in the last two decades?

We need every player to perform well above their true level while, at the same time, City's having an off nite. Then and only then do we have a chance to avoid getting well and truly trashed.

It's almost heartbreaking to see that starting line-up.

Flanagan was awesome, great debut.

Spearing and Lucas Dominated Yaya Toure and Barry.

I really worry for you man. Try not to be too down hearted all the time. You are in a minority of about 10 people I know of, who does not rate Lucas. Even my Barca and Madrid supporting friends rate Lucas a lot. Why? because as a central midfielder - central being the operative word, not defensive, Lucas is very effective and does the simple things well and sets up the direction of our plays. Lucas is our future captain whether you like it or not. Reina is off next season, Carra and Gerrard are almost retired, Kuyt is getting on and therefore Lucas is the natural successor to Gerrard as captain.

We still have LONG way to go, don't get me wrong, but we are on our way up. In the summer if we get 6 or 7 players in certain positions:- Full back, Centre back, Wide man/Winger, Creative midfielder, Central midfielder, Forward. Plus supplement that first team squad with the likes of Flanagan, Coady, Wisdom, Suso, Sterling and we'd definitely challenge for a top 4 place next season and the league the season after.

[Martinmarx]

I prescribe prozac.

Martin, please re-post this before every match. Your negativity produced such positivity tonight.

You also have the option to go back and read my post-game comments from last weekend where I said we'd win this.

Also, in what respect was I wrong? Fact, we did play well above our true level. Fact, City did have a nite off. Fact, it was arguably the best performance this season second only to our defeat of ManU. But in many respects this was the same team that was truly and utterly played off the Hawthorns just 9 days ago. True, we may well repeat this feat at the Emirates against a totally out-of-form Arsenal. But it also remains true that we are more than likely to drop points at home against Brummies, away to Fulham and Villa. If anything, last nite's performance is a leve we're able to reach in a handful of games per season. It remains true that we beat ManU in style just to get equally outplayed against West ham, that WBA totally humiliate us for 80 minutes just to humiliate City 9 days later. This inconsistency means 6th is the best we can and will get for a long time. Reason for that, IMHO, is that there is to many players in our squd content with beating the top teams (like the true underdogs are) while rather indifferent to the proposition a win against the bottomteams earns us the same amount of points.

I maintain that starting line up is heartbreaking to see. Play it for 15 consecutive games and you may start to think of it differently.

[Martinmarx]

We still have LONG way to go, don't get me wrong, but we are on our way up. In the summer if we get 6 or 7 players in certain positions:- Full back, Centre back, Wide man/Winger, Creative midfielder, Central midfielder, Forward. Plus supplement that first team squad with the likes of Flanagan, Coady, Wisdom, Suso, Sterling and we'd definitely challenge for a top 4 place next season and the league the season after.

Ed mate, that's not a LONG way to go. That's exceptionally short and doesn't reflect an honest analysis about where we are today, no pun intended. I don't see us qualify for the CL in the coming 3 years. It's not "just" getting the players in, it's very much about creating a winning mentality built on resilience and compusure. That, my friend, won't happen over night, let alone over the course of the upcoming two seasons.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

MartinMarx,

I despair!! Go and support someone else - please! 

[the dude abides]

Martin, you have been well and truly clobbered this time.  Hung by your own words.  Like they say, for some folks, you just need to give them enough rope.

I almost wish I could have seen your forum posts that night in Istanbul, in 2005, when we came back to beat AC Milan.  Probably something like:

"AC Milan were awful.  They imploded.  3-0 up and threw it away.

John Arne Riise needed two goes, to get a cross in, which Gerrard managed to get a head to. 

Smicer somehow contrived to score.  And Alonso missed a penalty to equalise (scrapped in the rebound from the Milan keeper)

Jerzy Dudek then saved from Andriy Shevchenko - what a miss.  Two sitters and he managed to screw both up.

Dudek was most unsportsmanlike and waved his arms about for the penalties.  Carragher encouraged this.  That is something that we should be frowning upon.  Embarrassing.  And in front of a worldwide audience of billions.

Conclusion, desperately fortunate.  On another night, we would have been hammered by 7 or 8 goals.  We got lucky.   Benitez made an awful selection.  Got lucky at half time when someone realised that he had 12 men picked to go out for the second half.  Man, did he get out of jail. 

We need to dismantle this team in the summer.  It is mediocre.  It will never be competitive. We need an entire new team.  And we need someone who can take penalties."

[Tes]

You also have the option to go back and read my post-game comments from last weekend where I said we'd win this.

So why the change of heart and negativity before a ball was kicked?

[the dude abides]

MartinMarx,

I despair!! Go and support someone else - please! 

I bet every club has their Martin-type *supporters*

Imagine Senor Martin, the Barcelona fan, 2011.

"It was better under Cruyff.  Real Madrid are poor.  I sorta wish they were better.  I take no enjoyment from being top of the league.  It does not feel right.  We are lucky to be in the Champions League.  This team is mediocre."

[Tes]

Ed mate, that's not a LONG way to go. That's exceptionally short and doesn't reflect an honest analysis about where we are today, no pun intended. I don't see us qualify for the CL in the coming 3 years. It's not "just" getting the players in, it's very much about creating a winning mentality built on resilience and compusure. That, my friend, won't happen over night, let alone over the course of the upcoming two seasons.

Yet Spurs have managed it in less than the time frame you give. '07/'08 season (3 seasons ago) Spurs finished 11th on 46 points.

City could still be unstable and on their 5th or 6th manager of the Monsour reign, Taggart could be retired, Wenger could have departed, 'Arry could be England boss and who knows with Chelsea and Abramovich's meddling - three years hence.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

I bet every club has their Martin-type *supporters*

Imagine Senor Martin, the Barcelona fan, 2011.

"It was better under Cruyff.  Real Madrid are poor.  I sorta wish they were better.  I take no enjoyment from being top of the league.  It does not feel right.  We are lucky to be in the Champions League.  This team is mediocre."

How right you are Dude.

What I don't understand is why he always has to look at things in such a negative light. Here we are having beaten Manure and City at home 6-1 and yet we still have a team hardly worthy of the shirt. Yes, we all know we lost to WBA, WHU and Blackpool but to me you're a lot closer to being a good team when you beat the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea away. What happened before Kenny took over is of no interest to me because the manager couldn't manage the team.

Our record since January must put us in the top 6-7 and with more recruits next season a top 4 is quite possible. There's a lot more to a winning team than just buying players as Man City are finding out to their cost.

[Edward224]

Ed mate, that's not a LONG way to go. That's exceptionally short and doesn't reflect an honest analysis about where we are today, no pun intended. I don't see us qualify for the CL in the coming 3 years. It's not "just" getting the players in, it's very much about creating a winning mentality built on resilience and compusure. That, my friend, won't happen over night, let alone over the course of the upcoming two seasons.

23 points in 12 league games. Pro-rate that for 38 games and in theory, we would have competed for the top 4 properly.

Plus that is with a weak squad and injuries.

TRUST ME We will challenge for a CL place next season - I guarantee it. You don't know the things I know in as such as the players we have already spoken with and had agreements with. We will sign top class players in the summer, plus a few squad players too.

I understand your concerns but I do not share them. Under Kenny we will have a totally different mentality and he will ship out the players who aren't up for it.

Also I got to say that I don't see any outstanding team in England right now. Manure, chavski, arsenal, city, spurs all are good, good teams but not outstanding imo and I believe we have a real chance in the summer to catch up.

[Tes]

I maintain that starting line up is heartbreaking to see. Play it for 15 consecutive games and you may start to think of it differently.

Or you can see it for what it was last night. A team that's had it's heart ripped out by a major injury crisis. It happens and you need to accept it. As for your 15 game extension of the original point, it goes without saying that nobody, not even the most optimistic amongst us, would be comfortable with the idea.

What we saw on Monday night was a combination of 3 of our back four (or both 1st and 2nd choice right backs, whichever order you place Kelly and Johnson in) plus our captain being injured, the mistakes in the market by Rafa and the financial shenanigans (which had a contributory effect towards Rafa's transfer policy) of the previous ownership.

[Martinmarx]

23 points in 12 league games. Pro-rate that for 38 games and in theory, we would have competed for the top 4 properly.

Plus that is with a weak squad and injuries.

TRUST ME We will challenge for a CL place next season - I guarantee it. You don't know the things I know in as such as the players we have already spoken with and had agreements with. We will sign top class players in the summer, plus a few squad players too.

I understand your concerns but I do not share them. Under Kenny we will have a totally different mentality and he will ship out the players who aren't up for it.

Also I got to say that I don't see any outstanding team in England right now. Manure, chavski, arsenal, city, spurs all are good, good teams but not outstanding imo and I believe we have a real chance in the summer to catch up.

1) We've lost to Blackpool, West Ham and WBA under Kenny. We also drew Wigan at home. That's 4th lost IMHO.

2) We will not challenge for top 4 next season for the simple reason it doesn't matter what playes we bring in. That has little or nothing to do with it. Or rather, bringing in fancy players with a hefty price tag isn't the answer to our questions. I love to hear we're looking at Adam, Baines and Cahill but don't think we'll get all three. If we did I'd say we're off to a good start.

3) Kenny just prolonged with Lucas. Doesn't seem like he recognise mediocrity even if it jumps up and bit him by his balls. Not slating Lucas, just saying he ain't good enough for a team aspiring higher than 5th.

4) You say you don't see any outstanding team in England. Mate, you can do much better than that. ManU will win the title, they're in the semi's both in the Cup and the CL. What more do they need to do to be considered outstanding?? I hate to admit it but sometimes you got to be honest about it.

5) I admire your optimism but fear you'll be heavily disappointed come late October. If we'd manage to hold on to Alonso and Masch I'd given you a case. As it is we need to completely rebuild our midfield over the next 2-3 seasons. While we do so, our inconsistency will continue and so will our lack of CL footy. It seems it hasn't dawned on you how far behind we slipped under Rafa. 7th last season, 6th this. We know the teams above us won't get any worse (apart from Chelsea perhaps) so forgive me for thinking the guarantee you're on about is as credible as our formes manager's.

6) Injuries are part of the game. Why is it so hard to accept? ManU went without many keyplayers this season yet will walk the title and are on the verge of claiming a 2nd treble (God forbid).