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Author Topic: Commentary on the games through the season....  (Read 210079 times)

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #75 on: September 25, 2010, 12:51:58 PM »
I think it's more a case of people being worried by what they're seeing and that it doesn't bode well. It's only part of the problem and as we've all been put through the mangle repeatedly, I think this has helped magnify things, and we're looking for onfield solace and not finding finding any there either. If it gives the players a wake up call, then maybe Wednesday night could end up having something positive come out of it. (Inserts crossed fingers smillie).
I take your point Tes but it was a one-off game where all those players have never played together. And Stavros as captain? Does he captain his country? As Rory Smith said on Twitter - team talk was burning a lamb and shouting "COME ON!!" We know some of those players are better than Wednesday. They've proved it and come Europa nights they have to be used again so we'd better have some faith in them.

The biggest boost to everyone (including us) is the announcement from RBS that they're assuming control. Soon after that I expect the club to change hands to hopefully, responsible owners.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2010, 06:37:11 PM »
If it gives the players a wake up call, then maybe Wednesday night could end up having something positive come out of it. (Inserts crossed fingers smillie).

Unfortunately the first team didnt seem to pick up where the squad players floundered. I wish I could be coming on here and giving a positive analysis but its very hard to take any positives from what Ive seen again today.

We know some of those players are better than Wednesday. They've proved it and come Europa nights they have to be used again so we'd better have some faith in them.

ASI some of those players should be better than what we saw Wednesday and some should have been better than what we witnessed today but as I said above its hard to take any positives at all from these performances.

You can use the excuse that we have new players in the squad but in general the team looks very poor at the moment no matter who's playing.

On what I've seen so far Poulsen is no better than Lucas (I dont rate Lucas). We made that call when Hodgson was pursuing Poulsen and to date I've seen nothing to change my opinion. So from what we've seen until he proves differently thats money wasted.

We are shipping goals for fun so its starting to bother me that Hodgson doesn't seem to be addressing that issue.

As I keep saying Hodgson will get time but so far on the field he has not offered anything more than we already had under our former manager Benitez and to date he offers less. Our team looks a shambles and i'm not sure how Roy expects the team to go from diabolical to top 4 contenders when we arent improving game by game. This is again just based on todays performance and what we have seen up to now. Its not working at the moment and I hope Roy can change things around especially if he wants to keep his job if and when new owners come in.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #77 on: September 25, 2010, 07:32:18 PM »
The rado commentators reported a significant improvement after Ngog came on and we went 4-4-2. That HAS to be the formation at home for most of our games. Someone on the radio phone-in said Hodgson still has the Fulham mentality where drawing at home to Sunderland is seen as a reasonable result.

I hope he didn't spend the 90 mins sat down again looking at the ground. That attitude worries me. It's almost as though he feels powerless t change what he's seeing and that will filter through to the players.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #78 on: September 25, 2010, 10:07:45 PM »

 We made that call when Hodgson was pursuing Poulsen and to date I've seen nothing to change my opinion. So from what we've seen until he proves differently thats money wasted.


There were a few of us weren't there, Juan, questioning the transfer when it was first mooted.
And I don't suppose a single one of us really wanted to be correct. He was a typical Hodgson player that would have fitted any of the teams, with the exception of Inter.   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #79 on: September 26, 2010, 12:52:40 AM »
The rado commentators reported a significant improvement after Ngog came on and we went 4-4-2. That HAS to be the formation at home for most of our games. Someone on the radio phone-in said Hodgson still has the Fulham mentality where drawing at home to Sunderland is seen as a reasonable result.

There was an improvement ASI but we only seem to improve when we go a goal or two down. It took Sunderland to take the lead today for us to respond. Last week we only went for the game when United were two up.

Regarding the phone ins I'm not sure Hodgson sees a draw at home to Sunderland being a good result, I think he knows what is expected at Liverpool. I just think on the evidence so far this season Roy just hasnt been up to the job. The longer these phase of poor performances and poor results go on the more Roy looks out of his depth. Thats not me having a pop at Roy, thats just fact from what we have seen to date.

I was always very dubious about his appointment and he needs to step up and make the team perform if he has any chance of winning his sceptics over. Lets just say we get taken over in October by somebody with a decent amount of cash to spend. If Roys performances werent to improve between October and January people would no longer have the ownership as a side issue and I would fear for Roys position.

Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #80 on: September 26, 2010, 12:57:11 AM »
There were a few of us weren't there, Juan, questioning the transfer when it was first mooted.
And I don't suppose a single one of us really wanted to be correct. He was a typical Hodgson player that would have fitted any of the teams, with the exception of Inter.

I think at the time Tes we said that if Poulsen wasnt going to improve on what we already had why waste money on him. Again what I've seen of him hes not an improvement on whats already here. Had we kept the 6 million from Poulsen and also used the 10 we were going to splash on a striker we would have been able to look at strikers in the 16 and possibly 20 million bracket instead of shopping for the likes of Carlton Cole on the last day

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #81 on: September 26, 2010, 01:01:44 PM »
There was an improvement ASI but we only seem to improve when we go a goal or two down. It took Sunderland to take the lead today for us to respond. Last week we only went for the game when United were two up.
That's the frustrating thing Juan. We took an early lead both on Wed and yesterday and failed to build on it. The penalty Poulson conceded was stupid and he should be dropped as punishment.

Quote
Regarding the phone ins I'm not sure Hodgson sees a draw at home to Sunderland being a good result, I think he knows what is expected at Liverpool. I just think on the evidence so far this season Roy just hasnt been up to the job. The longer these phase of poor performances and poor results go on the more Roy looks out of his depth. Thats not me having a pop at Roy, thats just fact from what we have seen to date.
It's the manager's responsibility to decide on formation and to give players instructions. After that, it's up to them. Collective responsibility. Both parties are culpable. But the first thing that has to happen is to stop conceding goals.

Quote
I was always very dubious about his appointment and he needs to step up and make the team perform if he has any chance of winning his sceptics over. Lets just say we get taken over in October by somebody with a decent amount of cash to spend. If Roys performances werent to improve between October and January people would no longer have the ownership as a side issue and I would fear for Roys position.
Well, this is a man courted by the FA and has also managed Inter Milan so he's no fool. The problem is, the longer it takes for him to formulate a successful plan to win games the more the players may lose confidence in him. All we can do is give him a chance as there's no possibility of a change until the club is sold.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline barticus

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #82 on: September 26, 2010, 01:44:27 PM »
I have to say...the panic buttons aren't being pressed yet with Roy as of 12 games in...
the northampton result was obviously dire but putting out your reserve team is always going to encourage the opposition...its a one off cup game and the beauty of any cup game is the possibility of a shock result...we got one after extra time and penalties...Sh*t happens...i thought it was a good opportunity to see what our 'reserves' could do...and they didnt do the business...
should we have put out a full strength team against northampton? i think roy got it right on that one...
The league's the important factor...the europe league taking prominence after that....then the carling cup...
if we'd scraped through against northampton then got done by sunderland then there'd be criticism there too...

the game against sunderland finally proved that we need support for torres up front and that our midfield is overcrowded...they're not protecting the defense and they're not creating enough opportunites for up front...
yesterday ngog came on for poulson and the game changed in our favour...i think sunderland are a good side and bent at the moment is absolutely on fire..we knew this before the game...
roy did something about it in the 63 rd minute when bringing ngog on...
maybe roy should have a look at rafa's substitution techniques as he will most definately learn from them...

i think roy will have seen this as he strikes me to be an intelligent man...i also dont think he'll stick with his favourites..

we need to concentrate on defense and maybe konchesky being injured is a blessing in disguise...we need agger on the field...
i have major doubts about johnson...and i think kelly could do a better job defending...

i think torres needs support and ngog should be up there with him...i'm sick to death of seeing torres stranded...and i know damn well torres is sick of it....ngog has been playing well...and it would be nice to see pacheco get a run out...

so what should the midfield be?
out of kuyt, gerrard, cole, poulsen, lucas .meireles, maxi and jovanovic...8 into 4 wont go....so this is the tricky parts...
first place goes to gerrard...nuff said (sorry dude!) att mid...(lucas in his correct position as cover)..

2nd to meireles...looks good so far...def mid...(poulson as cover)..
jovanovic has deeply unimpressed me so far...i dont care if hes free...hell i'm free...and i'd play better! he needs to step it up...

we cant have kuyt and lucas playing together as they're both dogs boy runalots....so kuyt for me...3rd place...
maxi has been woeful...i'd never play him again after seeing him the 3 times i've seen him this season...

4th place: cole (with pacheco as cover)

we are 5 points away from 2nd..with our start? with a new manager? that isnt catastrophic...i'm still optimistic...but not in a titanic 'i see no iceberg, full steam ahead!!!' kind of way...

Offline barticus

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #83 on: September 26, 2010, 01:59:35 PM »
And as for the 'controversial' first goal? I seem to remember Sunderland getting three points from us last season due to a ref unwilling to actually make a decision and ruling it a 'foreign body'
...the refs union has already come out and backed atwell for yesterdays game...so what goes around comes around...

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #84 on: September 26, 2010, 07:03:26 PM »
Hi Barticus,

I agree with your midfield selection and also that we should play Ngog up front with Torres. I also think Kelly should play instead of Johnson. Gerrard has to be in his most dangerous position and Meireles needs to be positioned accordingly.

The trouble with the team that played Northampton is that we'll need those lads during the season but I think playing some of them with more experienced players will help them. Pacheco and Spearing deserve more time. Also, you cannot play Agger at LB. Aurelio could be close to a return and I would play him there even if Konchelski is available. Agger is simply too good to be left out or played out of position.

Roy does need to change things for the Europa game on Thursday and I would play Gerrard and Torres. We seem to play better in Europe and momentum is vital. Blackpool will put up resistance but we should be able to defeat them.

There's no doubt that the ownership problem is having an effect on the pitch. If RBS to the honourable thing on Oct 15th there could well be a bounce in the next game after that date. And the opponents? Everton!

I also think we need to play to our strengths. Torres loves running into space so we should sit back and let teams come on to us and then ... wallop!!! A good forward pass will release him to do what he does best. It sounds so simple but football is a simple game as someone once said. It's made complicated by idiots!
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ed

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #85 on: September 26, 2010, 10:08:21 PM »
I have my doubts about Spearing, been a nearly man for too long IMO, interested in this lad JonJo Shelvey though too early to say until he features a bit more often! The Carling cup result is fair, so we have to move on from that to the next 2 fixtures Utrecht away and Blackpool at home.

Certainly, Johnson should be shot for his defending on the second goal yesterday. Don't care what he offers going forward! Hopefully some of the new additions to the squad can start to take on some of the responsibility for winning games because Stevie G riding over the mountain to salvage a point at home to Sunderland is a very depressing concept (although fair play to him for doing it!). C'mon Cole, Meireles!!

Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #86 on: September 26, 2010, 11:38:28 PM »
I have my doubts about Spearing, been a nearly man for too long IMO, interested in this lad JonJo Shelvey though too early to say until he features a bit more often!

I agree with you on Spearing and to be honest for me it goes past just having reservations, hes simply not Liverpool quality. I think the fact that he is a product of the academy and is flying the flag  as a local Liverpool lad is the reason he is still in the squad. If he is French, Spanish or any other nationality he would have been moved on before now. I can understand the concept of wanting to keep a Liverpool soul at the club but whats the point if the player in question is not up to scratch. Its sad to see we arent producing any new generation Fowlers Gerrards or Owens.

Also in a way I think thats why Carragher is still first choice, hes liverpool through and through and I think Roys afraid to drop him. If Roy is afraid to make those tough decisions like easing Carragher out and we continue performing poorly then I wont have sympathy if new owners were to relieve him as manager. It was the same with Benitez at times, I could never understand why he would chose to rest the likes of Torres in the league or put out a weakened team as he did on numerous occasions against the likes of Reading when they were in the PL. Even though I was a Rafa fan I always thought if we lose this game and you get sacked I wont have sympathy for you. Same goes for Roy if he persists with choosing certain players because its easier to play them than drop them even if its to the detriment of performances and results then if he falls on his own sword it will be entirely his own doing.

Apologies gone off a bit from the Spearing rant but I strongly believe there are other players in that team clearly not performing or not good enough and if Roy is afraid to make the tough calls then its on his head. 

Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2010, 12:27:08 AM »
I pinched this article from someone who posted on the .com site.

Its probably a fair assessment of how things have gone so far and what will probably happen to Roy if we get new owners in the not so distant future.

http://www.qwerty.web.id/roy-hodgsons-job-at-liverpool-is-under-threat-after-a-string-of-poor-results/


Roy Hodgson’s Job at Liverpool is Under Threat After a String of Poor Results
Posted by admin on September 27th, 2010 | No Comments

Roy Hodgson‘s Liverpool career is so fresh that the ink has barely dried on his contract. The popular manager has had to endure a trial by fire in his first weeks on the job. But just as he is getting his feet under the table there is a very real chance that he could be sacked.

Make no mistake about; six points from six games for a club with the stature of Liverpool is just not good enough. However, the most discouraging part of the Reds start to the season has been the manner of their performances; ranging from passable to abject.

This week the club have had to stomach ignominy of being knocked out of the Carling Cup at Anfield by League Two side Northampton, being outplayed by Manchester United at Old Trafford in a 3-2 defeat before another dispiriting draw at home to Sunderland.

From their six league games this season, Liverpool have only managed one three pointer thus far, a 1-0 home win over West Brom in the third game of the season. It is fair to say that the fixture list has not been kind to Hodgson with his team having faced three heavyweights in Arsenal, Manchester City, and Manchester United.

However, as already mentioned it is the manner of Liverpool’s performances that causes concern rather than their point’s total. Not once this season have the Reds even looked liked they were playing well.

Arsenal dictated the opening game of the season and if it were not for a calamitous piece of goalkeeping by the haphazard Manuel Almunia they would have begun this term with a loss rather than a draw.

A truly terrible performance followed at the Eastlands where Liverpool was brushed aside by Manchester City in a 3-0 victory that easily could have been more. A 1-0 win over an improving West Brom side at Anfield settled a number of nerves before an abject display away to Birmingham had everyone wondering what exactly was happening at Liverpool.

If it were not for Pepe Reina producing one of the finest performances of his Liverpool career then Birmingham would have won by a cricket score.

It sent a worrying pulse through the Reds supporters who wondered just how far their team had fallen if it was taking man-of-the-match type performances from their goalkeeper just to eke out a point at Birmingham.

This led us to the last seven days.

Manchester United dominated Liverpool in every area of the pitch at Old Trafford and really should have been home and dry before two Steven Gerrard strikes pegged the Red Devils back. In the end, justice was served as Dimitar Berbatov finished off his hat-trick with another well-taken goal.

Then there was Northampton…

Hodgson changed the set-up of the team completely but still found his side having to score a late equalizer in injury time to draw with the Cobblers, who then won the game on penalties.

And this weekend Liverpool produced yet another below par performance against Sunderland at home.

Hodgson just isn’t producing the kind of changes everyone thought he would. His signings, while restricted by a severely dented budget, have the ring of mid-table about them, especially Poulsen and Konchesky. While Meireles and Cole look like they are struggling to come to terms with the growing pressure they are playing under.

In short, after just six games Roy Hodgson has found himself in an extremely vulnerable position.

Let’s make it clear, he will not be sacked by the current board unless the club goes on a slump of biblical proportions, but he is in grave danger of being sacked by whoever decides to eventually take over the club.

The main reasons that Hodgson was brought in initially are two fold. The first reason being that Roy was the best, cheapest option. Liverpool only had to pay Fulham around £1.5 million in compensation for their manager. The second being that his contract is short, and if new owners take over the compensation they have to pay out will also be minimal.

It is precisely for these two reasons that Liverpool went for Hodgson over other options like Martin O’Neill or Laurent Blanc. While the board also recognised that their new manager was a better option than Kenny Dalglish, who had been away from the game for some years.

Last May it became clear that Liverpool was moving towards administration is something huge did not happen at the club. Now it is known that all potential investors have to do is wait for RBS to take over the debt-ridden club in October and they could make a massive saving of around £300 million.

Currently RBS lawyers are looking into how they could force Kop Holdings in administration but not the club itself. However, Liverpool FC is the only asset on Kop Holdings books and the Premier League would surely investigate such instances should they arise. If they were to find wrong doing then the club could face a larger penalty than the 9pts currently on show.

Just to show what Liverpool fans want, well known Liverpool fan site Anfield Road have just conducted their own opinion poll where the options given were

1) Keep Hicks and Gillett or
2) Enter administration with RBS

So far, fans have voted overwhelmingly for administration, with some 97 percent seeing the unknown as a better option than keeping Hicks or Gillett.

Should the seemingly inevitable happen then it is almost a certain bet, unless results improve dramatically, that Hodgson and Liverpool will part ways as the new owners look to put their stamp on the club.

Early money would suggest that Martin O’Neill is the prime candidate for the job.

Tom Hicks and George Gillett have until the start of October to pay, the government owned bank, RBS the entire amount of some £280 million or face being taken over.

From here it would seem that the countdown for the clubs future is in line with the countdown for Hodgson’s too.

This article was previously featured on Tiger Beer Football, where Willie Gannon is the featured Blogger. Over 18s only.

Bleacher Report – Front Page

Offline Tes

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #88 on: September 28, 2010, 10:22:54 AM »
Hodgson's (and our's) problem is that most of his career has been spent with clubs and countries who are only there to make up the numbers. Copenhagen and Malmo may have had a chance of being domestic champions but within the larger picture of European football would barely create a ripple in the UEFA Cup, nevermind the European Cup. If somehow either had managed to qualify for the latter, that would have been the pinacle of success, simply being there. Likewise Finland and Switzerland.
At Inter he took over a team that had been in the doldrums for years. Blackburn where in rapid descent from where they'd peaked under Dalglish.

You've only got to look at the fuss that surrounds his 'achievements' at Fulham. In the context of who Fulham are and where their place is in domestic and European football, of course it was an achievement, but as O'Neill has proved at Villa, overachievement at an also-ran doesn't neccessarily mean translation will occur at a 'real player'. Let's not forget that Villa for decades were the most successful team in the FA Cup (when it was revered the world over, and were only overtaken by Ferguson's commercially funded United) and are a past European Cup winner, something that clubs like Arsenal with their illustrious history and Chelsea with the Londoncentric 'glamour', and recently cash, can't lay claim to. 

We needed a manager who would make the sort of impact Wenger did when he took over from Rioch, or Ancelotti has done when compared to what Scolari, Hiddink and Grant achieved - leaguewise, as that is where our priority lies and our overall performance has been most lacking for the past two decades and been brought more sharply into focus with a seventh place finish, only scraping into the UEFA Cup thanks to Portsmouth's (fan's) misfortunes and financially is an imperative.
Unfortunately Roy Hodgson's career has not been about that level of impact and achievement. Yes, he's had success within the context of the clubs or countries he's managed but success at Liverpool Football Club is not measured within the narrow range of Liverpool Football Club but rather the much broader context of domestic and European football in it's widest sense.

All we can hope is that Roy bucks the trend and breaks the mould and is therefore able to translate 'success' into success.   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2010, 11:37:20 AM »
Hodgson's (and our's) problem is that most of his career has been spent with clubs and countries who are only there to make up the numbers. Copenhagen and Malmo may have had a chance of being domestic champions but within the larger picture of European football would barely create a ripple in the UEFA Cup, nevermind the European Cup. If somehow either had managed to qualify for the latter, that would have been the pinacle of success, simply being there. Likewise Finland and Switzerland.
At Inter he took over a team that had been in the doldrums for years. Blackburn where in rapid descent from where they'd peaked under Dalglish.

You've only got to look at the fuss that surrounds his 'achievements' at Fulham. In the context of who Fulham are and where their place is in domestic and European football, of course it was an achievement, but as O'Neill has proved at Villa, overachievement at an also-ran doesn't neccessarily mean translation will occur at a 'real player'. Let's not forget that Villa for decades were the most successful team in the FA Cup (when it was revered the world over, and were only overtaken by Ferguson's commercially funded United) and are a past European Cup winner, something that clubs like a*senal with their illustrious history and Chelsea with the Londoncentric 'glamour', and recently cash, can't lay claim to. 

We needed a manager who would make the sort of impact Wenger did when he took over from Rioch, or Ancelotti has done when compared to what Scolari, Hiddink and Grant achieved - leaguewise, as that is where our priority lies and our overall performance has been most lacking for the past two decades and been brought more sharply into focus with a seventh place finish, only scraping into the UEFA Cup thanks to Portsmouth's (fan's) misfortunes and financially is an imperative.
Unfortunately Roy Hodgson's career has not been about that level of impact and achievement. Yes, he's had success within the context of the clubs or countries he's managed but success at Liverpool Football Club is not measured within the narrow range of Liverpool Football Club but rather the much broader context of domestic and European football in it's widest sense.

All we can hope is that Roy bucks the trend and breaks the mould and is therefore able to translate 'success' into success.

All excellent points Tes.

I said it a few weeks ago that in the short term I would like to see Roy tinker with the team until he finds his best balance and his best personnel.

If we consistently drop points after points playing the same players in the same positions using the same system then Roy is shooting himself in the foot.

Many of us have called for Johnson to be pushed on to the wing. No matter how well hes doing at right back in training hes not doing it on the pitch. Some want to see Agger and Skrtel get a chance to strike a defensive partnership. Likewise some have said to draft Kelly in at right back.

People will be even happier to give Roy time if they see that he is attempting to shore up our defence while attempting to find the balance that give us the best platform for attack.

Today John Aldridge echos some of what we have said and I wonder if Roy will adopt any of his thinking. Why not use this weeks Europa Cup to give the Kelly Johnson partnership down the right a try or as Aldo says pair Kuyt with Torres for 45.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/debate-johnson-on-the-wing


Debate: Johnson on the wing?
28th Sep 2010 - Latest News

John Aldridge would like to see young defender Martin Kelly selected at right-back in the coming weeks - with Glen Johnson moved up field to play on the wing. But what do you think?

The former Kop favourite said: "Personally I'd like to see Johnson pushed forward with Kelly behind him at right-back, as I think that would improve us as an attacking force and bolster the defence.

"We have conceded too many goals from wide areas in the last couple of league games and that is something that needs to be rectified. You have got to stop the ball coming in to the box at all times and a couple of clean sheets would do wonders for the confidence.

"If you had Kelly and Johnson on the right, Dirk Kuyt could slot in behind Fernando Torres and have Joe Cole on the left with Steven Gerrard and Raul Meireles in the middle - a winning combination?"

What do you think of Aldo's idea? Vote below and then explain your decision by commenting on this story.