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Author Topic: Commentary on the games through the season....  (Read 193435 times)

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #495 on: January 10, 2011, 09:23:21 PM »
Kellys got to start against Blackpool. If he's dropped after a performance like yesterday then I think it sends out the wrong signals.I reckon kenny might be the one that finally moves Glen to the right wing.not permanently just until the end of the season when we can strengthen.

yes, he played really well, and has to stay in the team.

that was the way liverpool used to do things.
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Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #496 on: January 10, 2011, 11:13:22 PM »
Agreed Kellys got to keep the right back spot and also that Kenny should try Johnson out on the right wing. I know he cost us 18 million and cant defend to save his life but if pushing him into midfield worked out half as well as Gareth Bale at Spurs it could save us 15 million on a new right winger.

Might be time to play Kuyt up front with Nando. Meireles and Gerrard in midfield, johnson on the right.

Hopefully Kenny can work some magic on Cole too. Maybe Clarke can get the best out of himself and Johnson.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #497 on: January 10, 2011, 11:27:30 PM »
Juan,

Do you not see a place for Lucas? He's a much improved player this season and that's from more than one source.

In any case, for the next 3 games Gerrard is not a consideration so Lucas is deserving a start providing he has the stamina.
Cheers,
Ray



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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #498 on: January 11, 2011, 12:27:28 AM »
Agreed Kellys got to keep the right back spot and also that Kenny should try Johnson out on the right wing. I know he cost us 18 million and cant defend to save his life but if pushing him into midfield worked out half as well as Gareth Bale at Spurs it could save us 15 million on a new right winger.

Might be time to play Kuyt up front with Nando. Meireles and Gerrard in midfield, johnson on the right.

Hopefully Kenny can work some magic on Cole too. Maybe Clarke can get the best out of himself and Johnson.

Not sure that Johnson would be that good as a right winger.

Offline Gurdeep

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Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #499 on: January 11, 2011, 07:31:36 AM »
Not sure that Johnson would be that good as a right winger.

I believe he'd make a far better right winger than a right back.  He has speed and is a decent crosser of the ball.

Wouldn't hurt to try with Kelly playing behind him, who also I might add likes to get up the field as well.  Could see some nice overlaps with those two on the right.
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Offline Kopite999

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Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #500 on: January 11, 2011, 11:57:31 AM »
Not sure that Johnson would be that good as a right winger.

Personally I think he has every attribute to be a good winger. Strong pacey,can cross and shoot. It'll help him with his weakness aswell which is defending. Kelly is a solid defender and should be first choice tomorrow and away games especially

Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #501 on: January 11, 2011, 02:28:59 PM »
Juan,

Do you not see a place for Lucas? He's a much improved player this season and that's from more than one source.

In any case, for the next 3 games Gerrard is not a consideration so Lucas is deserving a start providing he has the stamina.

ASI I agree Lucas has improved this year and gives all in every game. But thats not good enough for a club that has ambitions to challenge for the league.

He will get his game time this season but unless Kenny can get him playing like no other Liverpool manager previously has then I couldnt see him holding down a regular place if we were to sign another quality central midfielder or two.

Put it this way aside from hard work and determination what does Lucas offer the team that no other player offers us. What does he specialise in? Hes not a Masch type midfielder that breaks up play, hes not considered a passer. He doesnt get too many goals. We were led to believe he was a box to box midfielder when he was signed but Ive seen little evidence of that. Hes an honest player and definitely worth having in the squad but unless he improves dramactically I wouldnt consider he offers enough to keep a place in our midfield. This season he will be important for us but once we strengthen I think he will miss out more than not.

Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #502 on: January 11, 2011, 02:33:10 PM »
I believe he'd make a far better right winger than a right back.  He has speed and is a decent crosser of the ball.

Wouldn't hurt to try with Kelly playing behind him, who also I might add likes to get up the field as well.  Could see some nice overlaps with those two on the right.

Johnsons a tricky player too, well capable of beating a man and would be capable of getting us goals too. With Kelly playing so well at right back I think its a no brainer to push Johnson into midfield. And even if we wanted to sell him we would recoup half the money we spent on him as a right back. Take a chance on him in midfield and if it works his transfer value might escalate.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #503 on: January 11, 2011, 05:14:17 PM »
ASI I agree Lucas has improved this year and gives all in every game. But thats not good enough for a club that has ambitions to challenge for the league.
We're a few years away from challenging from the league.  And I think with good coaching he could improve further.

Quote
He will get his game time this season but unless Kenny can get him playing like no other Liverpool manager previously has then I couldnt see him holding down a regular place if we were to sign another quality central midfielder or two.
I'd expect us to strengthen in midfield but not before we have improved defence and added a second quality striker. If Kenny can get no more out of him then yes, we would need to look elsewhere but I don't see it as a priority.

Quote
Put it this way aside from hard work and determination what does Lucas offer the team that no other player offers us. What does he specialise in? Hes not a Masch type midfielder that breaks up play, hes not considered a passer. He doesnt get too many goals. We were led to believe he was a box to box midfielder when he was signed but Ive seen little evidence of that. Hes an honest player and definitely worth having in the squad but unless he improves dramactically I wouldnt consider he offers enough to keep a place in our midfield. This season he will be important for us but once we strengthen I think he will miss out more than not.
He has shown glimpses of what he can do when let off the leash. Unfortunately we haven't been in that position too much this season but with some better quality players in the team he can still make a contribution. I'd just like to see him go forward more often.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ed

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #504 on: January 11, 2011, 07:42:53 PM »
I agree ASI, certainly out of Meireles & Gerrard, I thought Lucas was head and shoulders above them on Sunday. I'm not trying to disrespect either of the two, just saying that Lucas is under-rated IMO, where the deficiencies of more flashy players gets overlooked (e.g. it is really, really, really, stupid to get sent off against United at Old Trafford, cost us a cup and misses 3 games, should know better!).

He had the look of a senior player about him against United (did Babel??) and that's mad given that he's only just turned 24.

There is definitely still room for improvement but he gets it right in a lot of areas, attitude, courage, stamina, intelligence, technique. Perhaps the combo of Clarke and Dalglish will offer him more freedom to express himself going forward (e.g. Danny Agger)?

Anyway, to totally just disregard his progress at the club and replace him with whoever would be a touch rash I think. I'd prefer more patience!


Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #505 on: January 11, 2011, 07:54:26 PM »
Good points Ed. Although I don't like talking about the shower along the East Lancs Road Nani is one player who has improved because the coaches were of the required standard. I honestly believe that someone like Steve Clarke will be able to get more performance out of a lot of the players and that's before Kenny works his magic.

When someone is only 24 they can still improve their game. With the right coaching Lucas could become even better. We should give him, and all but the usual suspects a chance to improve before parting company with any.

Kenny said today he doesn't want any new recruits in as he wants to get the best out of what he already has. That to me sends a real message to the players that he has confidence in them that they can improve. Now that's team building!!
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Kopite999

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Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #506 on: January 11, 2011, 08:04:11 PM »
Sorry guys but if we're ever going to challenge for a top 4 position again Lucas cannot be a first team player on a regular basis.He's a good player to come in now and again but we can't harbour mediocrity if we have any ambitions of being great once again. Meireles had a poor game Sunday but has shown plenty of class, probably more in 5 months than Lucas in the whole time he's been at the club

Offline Tes

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #507 on: January 11, 2011, 08:18:34 PM »
If anyone saw Lucas' performances for Gremio before signing for us would have seen a completely different player to the one we've seen here. He's been asked to learn a whole new different role within a very different kind of game. Anyone who hasn't seen his previous performances has only had the chance to judge half the player based on how he's been used here.

I remember Alonso at Sociedad. I'd watch their games simply to watch Alonso. Difference is, he was used in the same way he was at Sociedad. Lucas has never had that chance.
I'm not saying he's an Alonso, that would be daft, but there's another side to his game he's not been allowed to utilise given the way he's been asked to play.

Midfielders have much more specific roles than 20 years ago. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #508 on: January 11, 2011, 08:44:22 PM »
I like the look of Lucas.

And as Steven Gerrard begins to dominate the central midfield, less and less each season, as his krytonite begins to fade, I think other midfielders (like Lucas) will have the chance to shine. 

You just have to look at lads like Kuyt.  Under Hodgson they look like journeymen.  Under a good manager and decent system, they excel.  Lucas is no different.  With the right opportunity, he can make a real difference.
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Offline Juan

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Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #509 on: January 11, 2011, 08:50:07 PM »
If anyone saw Lucas' performances for Gremio before signing for us would have seen a completely different player to the one we've seen here. He's been asked to learn a whole new different role within a very different kind of game. Anyone who hasn't seen his previous performances has only had the chance to judge half the player based on how he's been used here.

I remember Alonso at Sociedad. I'd watch their games simply to watch Alonso. Difference is, he was used in the same way he was at Sociedad. Lucas has never had that chance.
I'm not saying he's an Alonso, that would be daft, but there's another side to his game he's not been allowed to utilise given the way he's been asked to play.

Midfielders have much more specific roles than 20 years ago.

But Tes its great playing well for your previous club but if Lucas cant replicate the type of form that convinced Rafa to pay 8 million for him then thats no good to us.

I dont think Lucas is a bad player and I would definitely keep him as a squad player but I would just question whether he can replicate his form for Gremio at Liverpool. If he cant then for me hes not good enough to start for a team that has designs on challenging for the league.

For now though until the team is improved he will play an important role for us.