Commentary on the games through the season....

[Ageing Stick Insect]

We didn't do badly in that year either ASI. May of that year was one of the 5 vintage ones!!!

Exactamundo Kopite. Too much can be read into one result. 13/15 points is champions form!

I was disappointed yesterday like everyone but there's been a lot of positives recently so like you say we need to get behind the team. If we can have a real go at fourth place and pick up good results a long the way, whether we get there or not we'll be able to take plenty of good things into next season.

So was I when Wigan's form surely meant 3pts was a given. But it's just a blip. How good this team is (with Carroll and Suarez) will be measured against the likes of Manure, City and Spurs when they come visiting. We may not get 9pts but you can bet your boots Kenny will get as much out of them as is humanly possible.

[Kopite999]

If carroll can match the way Suarez has impressed the fans then the next few years are going to be very enjoyable. Suarez yesterday was really  lively and was so unlucky not to score.  The free kick especially. This guy is capable of scoring more than Torres because he's going to score penalties and free kicks aswell as from open play.

And how nice is is to see a forward fighting and enjoying wearing the shirt?

[Ageing Stick Insect]

Considering it was his first full game in England it was a brilliant performance. He's clearly got a lot of determination not to mention quite a bill of skill too. We need players with fire in their bellies. I'm sure Andy C will be equally determined to do well which bodes well for England too.

For the first time in many years we have owners who can afford to buy quality players. Shanks and Bob can rest easy. Their legacy is in good hands with Kenny and John Henry in charge.

[Martinmarx]

Martinmarx,

You're a really cheerful bloke aren't you? Football has always had surprises and it goes a lot further back that 1990!

I was at Anfield in Jan '81 when we lost at home to Leicester City. And our goal was an OG!! Here's the team that day:-

Clemence, Neal, Cohen, Thompson, R.Kennedy, Irwin, Heighway, Lee, Johnson, McDermott (Case 78), Souness

Presumably most of them were crap too according to you. OTOH, they could have had an off-day like we all do and were outplayed by a team who rose to the occasion. Leicester were applauded off the pitch by the Kop. I was there and did too.

I ignored your tirade yesterday but this one needed responding to. For a Liverpool fan you should know better and have a more positive attitude to the team and the club you support. 

I didn't mean to upset you ASI. But surely you'd agree that team was also capable of beating relegation fodder when they had silver in sight? True, any team can have a day off - just ask Chelsea and ManU last weekend. Dropping points, however, at home to Wigan when we had a genuine chance of closing the gap on Chelsea and Tottenham just isn't acceptable and goes a long way to prove our squad really is mediocre. If we were up there and cruising I could've lived with the result as a one off, but this was more or less a cup-final FFS and we do not show up. Not good enough and why I say this sudden optimism on this forum and others is poorly founded.

[Kopite999]

I think it's hard not to get a little optimistic after having owners like we had and the football we played under hodgson to now under kenny

[Ageing Stick Insect]

I didn't mean to upset you ASI. But surely you'd agree that team was also capable of beating relegation fodder when they had silver in sight? True, any team can have a day off - just ask Chelsea and ManU last weekend. Dropping points, however, at home to Wigan when we had a genuine chance of closing the gap on Chelsea and Tottenham just isn't acceptable and goes a long way to prove our squad really is mediocre. If we were up there and cruising I could've lived with the result as a one off, but this was more or less a cup-final FFS and we do not show up. Not good enough and why I say this sudden optimism on this forum and others is poorly founded.

You haven't upset me Martin. But I wish you would be more balanced with your criticism. You slate Lucas but he played for Brazil midweek. That's the first team Brazil, not the reserves or the veterans or the girls team. So he's good enough for Brazil but you don't rate him. I don't understand your reasoning. He does a lot of things well so give him some credit. All players have off-days. Look at Rooney most of this season. Lucas has been miles better.

Regarding 'that team' were you referring to our team that lost at home to Leicester? If you were then Leicester were relegated that season. But the side that would win a third European Cup lost at home to a side who were relegated. Hmmm, perhaps Bob Paisley should have had a clear out?

There's no magic rule that says you don't drop points at home to lesser opponents. Football just doesn't work that way. But I would agree with you that several of those players who turned out yesterday probably won't be around next season. But Kenny had to field them and at the same time instill some confidence in them. Suarez, with a bit more luck would have netted one of his two chances and that would have been the game won. 3 or 4 inches to the left of the post or the same distance below the bar would have resulted in 2 goals.

So don't kill the players when we could have easily won the game. Wigan got lucky with their equaliser which was offside and had two big slices of luck with Suarez's shots.

Oh, and that 1980-81 season? We finished 5th 9pts behind the champions - Aston Villa. With the current rules we wouldn't even have qualified for that competition the following season.

[the dude abides]

I didn't mean to upset you ASI. But surely you'd agree that team was also capable of beating relegation fodder when they had silver in sight? True, any team can have a day off - just ask Chelsea and ManU last weekend. Dropping points, however, at home to Wigan when we had a genuine chance of closing the gap on Chelsea and Tottenham just isn't acceptable and goes a long way to prove our squad really is mediocre.

Martin, the problem is, that terms like "legend", "world class" and "mediocre" are thrown around these days like confetti.

perhaps one could conclude that Wolves squad is mediocre......perhaps west ham's squad is down there too.

but how in under goodness one could conclude that a squad containing the likes of Kuyt, Reina, Agger, Suarez, Carroll, Kelly, Gerrard, Moreless, etc, is mediocre, is well beyond my levels of understanding.

I know you were deeply unhappy with Rafa.  Two CL finals in 5 seasons, plus a runner up spot in the league, obviously did not content your ambitions.  I really have to wonder if your glass is 90 percent empty.   

I enjoy your posts - but you really got to start enjoying things a tad more. 

Best,

El Dude

[the dude abides]

This guy (Suarez) is capable of scoring more than Torres because he's going to score penalties (and free kicks as well as from open play).

anyone informed Captain Marvel yet, re the penalty taking?

 

[Ed]

I have to admit it was fantastic to see a striker working his socks off for the team yesterday (saying nothing, but it does make one wonder what the hell was going on under Hodgson).

Can't wait for Carroll to get fit....The team is really crying out for a BIG physical presence....I know we were lacking a bit of sharpness & obviously the international friendlies didn't help but I still think Skrtel should have at least hit the target with his header in the 92nd minute.

(btw, Is Chris de Burgh a Red?  )

Shame to be missing both Stevie G & Agger.....

Disappointed with the result but (tbh, I think the hype around Dalglish was about to start becoming crazy, the reality is he's barely been in the job 5 minutes and is doing his best with what he's got and we have to be patient with our expectations).

Agree with the Dude, Meireles is on fire at the moment, (Needs to keep it up though!!....LOL  ).

[Gurdeep]

(btw, Is Chris de Burgh a Red?  )

I believe he is Ed.

[Martinmarx]

Martin, the problem is, that terms like "legend", "world class" and "mediocre" are thrown around these days like confetti.

perhaps one could conclude that Wolves squad is mediocre......perhaps west ham's squad is down there too.

but how in under goodness one could conclude that a squad containing the likes of Kuyt, Reina, Agger, Suarez, Carroll, Kelly, Gerrard, Moreless, etc, is mediocre, is well beyond my levels of understanding.

I know you were deeply unhappy with Rafa.  Two CL finals in 5 seasons, plus a runner up spot in the league, obviously did not content your ambitions.  I really have to wonder if your glass is 90 percent empty.   

I enjoy your posts - but you really got to start enjoying things a tad more. 

Best,

El Dude

In response to both you and ASI. As I said the sign of a quality squad is, at least where I come from, ability to rise to the ocassion when it is expected. You see that's the most profound syndrom of the "Liverpool disease" - never be up for it when it matters, always upset expectations when it wasn't on the cards. I am the first to admit any team have their days off. Again, just take a look at both ManU and Chelsea last weekend (from their perspective it was a day off). Again, if we were up there, or if we had another 8-9 points to our current toll I could've lived with it. It's not the result in itself that makes me desillusioned, it's the timing and manner in which it happened. To me the Wigan game was really a cup final. Here we are, having a genuine possibility to close the gap on both Spurs and Chelsea with a two week break coming up before we face West Ham away (where we generally produce good results). What do we do? We plonk it big MF time!!! We were outplayed, not up for it, disjointed, what have you for large parts of the game. You NEVER see  any of the other top teams (bar Spurs) perform like that at home against relegation fodder. Why? Because their squads are so much better than ours it doesn't matter if they're "there" mentally. Their sheer class will be enough to secure the points against the Wigan's of this world.

I say again, the fact we failed massively, hugely, enormously to rise to the ocassion speaks volume as to how mediocre our squad really is. And by mediocre I mean anything below top 4. Might be too narrow a definition for your liking, but that's how I see it.

You say Lucas is good. True, when surrounded by Gerrard, Meireles and the always available Kuijt he can have his moments, or even games. Who wouldn't perform well under those circumstances? I know I wouldn't make a tit of myself 15 years ago. Take these three out and his nothing, which he showed pretty clearly against Wigan. He dind't step forward, he didn't offer leadership, he didn't do nothing to merit the praise people always heap on him for some quite spurious reason.

It's not a question of whether the glass if half full or empty. It's about being honest and realistic about things. The Wigan game was per firking se a cup final and we didn't show up.

[the dude abides]

btw, Is Chris de Burgh a Red? 

is the pope a catholic?   

chris de burgh has always been a massive liverpool fan.

[the dude abides]

I say again, the fact we failed massively, hugely, enormously to rise to the ocassion speaks volume as to how mediocre our squad really is. And by mediocre I mean anything below top 4.

no, we had our lads playing for their countries midweek, which meant them flying all across the world. 

thus, IMHO, that is why wigan were not being properly closed down at times.....that is why soft free-kicks were being conceded, that is why some legs look tired.

You NEVER see  any of the other top teams (bar Spurs) perform like that at home against relegation fodder. Why? Because their squads are so much better than ours

are you serious?  Have you not been watching chelsea implode this season?  United also had a very dodgy first few months as well, by their high standards.  Arsenal have had several poor results (look at the 4-4 draw last week at newcastle)

You say Lucas is good. True, when surrounded by Gerrard, Meireles and the always available Kuijt he can have his moments, or even games. Who wouldn't perform well under those circumstances? I know I wouldn't make a tit of myself 15 years ago. Take these three out and he's nothing

well, if I recall you didn't rate (in the past) lads like Kuyt either. 

I know, with my own eyes, that Lucas is a good player.  And he starts for Brazil - so his fellow countrymen must rate him highly as well.  Rafa Benitez always sings the lad's praises.  And King Kenny rates him highly - he came out last week and praised the lad's abilities. 

So who should I believe?  You or them?

[Ed]

I know, with my own eyes, that Lucas is a good player.  And he starts for Brazil - so his fellow countrymen must rate him highly as well.  Rafa Benitez always sings the lad's praises.  And King Kenny rates him highly - he came out last week and praised the lad's abilities. 

AGREED, Personally, I don't think Lucas is quite the finished article yet!
BUT, he's being asked to do a job and he does it!

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/07/30/central-midfield-role/

As Perez once said (referred to in that article) of Makelele:
“We will not miss Makelele. His technique is average, he lacks the speed and skill to take the ball past opponents, and ninety percent of his distribution either goes backwards or sideways. He wasn’t a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres.”

As I see it Lucas is a work in progress, he's been around to all the grounds in England for two seasons now, adapting to this strange football we play, gaining experience and growing in confidence. A good example of this progress is the game at the Bridge the other week where he's getting in there and mixing it away from home against the champions.

One of the areas perhaps where he could do a little better is occasionally opt to take the ball forward himself and beat a player or two (means we're less predictable) and maybe get on the end of things in or outside the box more often. These are kind of extras that would make him the complete midfielder. At the moment though we have got attacking options so it is not as big a deal and if he keeps plugging away honing his play (improve his tackling, positioning, distribution even more) he has the potential to step up and be a very important player for us.

Surprisingly, imo, it is one of the things that he is often criticised for i.e. week in week out, home & away, consistently doing the simple things well..... that is the bread and butter of winning titles.

Give the lad a break!

[the dude abides]

As I see it Lucas is a work in progress, he's been around to all the grounds in England for two seasons now, adapting to this strange football we play, gaining experience and growing in confidence. A good example of this progress is the game at the Bridge the other week where he's getting in there and mixing it away from home against the champions.

One of the areas perhaps where he could do a little better is occasionally opt to take the ball forward himself and beat a player or two (means we're less predictable)

Surprisingly, imo, it is one of the things that he is often criticised for i.e. week in week out, home & away, consistently doing the simple things well..... that is the bread and butter of winning titles.

Give the lad a break!

exactly, Ed.

btw good article, thanks for the link.  That quote tells you why Real Madrid's Chairman (Perez) would never be a decent football manager.   He didn't understand the game, or the necessary contributions to a team.

I cringe at some of the stuff I read from football fans on forums (I never could listen to the phone-in shows.....even the very sound of the voices, of those who phoned in, gave away their total ignorance).

Lucas has been asked to do a specific job.  And he is doing it well. 

I actually enjoy watching the team when Gerrard is not dominating the middle.  I see more people start to be able to grow in confidence and develop their own game.  Lucas is one of those lads. 

With time, and development, I have long since seen Lucas as being our Paul Scholes.