December 05, 2020, 06:00:40 PM

Author Topic: Commentary on the games through the season....  (Read 211091 times)

Offline Kopite999

  • Established
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #705 on: February 18, 2011, 12:22:09 AM »
Not sure if Pacheco, spearing, or cole and skrtel will go but I expect the rest to. Its intriguing wondering what our team will look like at the start of next season

Offline barticus

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1078
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #706 on: February 18, 2011, 06:39:35 AM »
What players do you think Kenny may possibly let go in the summer? These arent necessarily players i want to see go but i think they are major candidates;

Skrtel, Soto, Maxi, Cole, Aurelio, Ngog, Poulsen, Konchesky, Jovanovic, Pacheco, Spearing, Aquilani. I'm sure theres probably more players with insecure futures but thats all that comes to mind for now.

I can't see Aquilani coming back now...and would not be surprised to see all of the above leave apart from Skrtel and Ngog....the rest are either old and past it or just not good enough...

Offline Juan

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 2366
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #707 on: February 18, 2011, 09:21:56 AM »
I dont necessarily think these players will go but I do feel Pacheco may ask to leave in the summer. The rest then will possibly be on Kennys undecided list, as in does Kenny consider them dead wood or if an offer came in would he find it hard to turn down. I'd say what concerns them about Cole is the number of games hes been fit for compared to the huge wages hes collecting.

It is definitely going to be very interesting to see what the team is for the start of next season, all change realistically. I think Kenny will attempt to bring in players that are comfortable on the ball and can play the pass and move game. I have a sneaky feeling they may go for Ryan shawcross in defence. After that as Kopite suggested it could be Adam and young. Im sure Comolli is lining up a number of French players also.

Offline Kopite999

  • Established
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #708 on: February 18, 2011, 04:49:52 PM »
Just seen Jose Enrique will cost £12 million. He's still got 16 months on his contract so that's very steep. If we can get him for between 6-8 million then that would be more realistic.

Possible team for the 11/12 season

Reina (hopefully)
Johnson
Agger
Carra
Enrique
Adam
Gerrard
Meireles
Young
Suarez
Carrol

Subs
Kelly
Kuyt
Gervinho
Cahill
Cole
Marveaux
Gk: jones( probably leaving in the summer)

That's not a bad squad IF we were to pull them off. But the good thing in our favour is that most of the them, that could possibly come in, would only have 12 months on their contract this summer. It could cost the price of Torres to get them in but with jovanovic and aquillani money and a few others going out we could raise 20 plus million. With a net spend of 25 million it could be very possible. If you consider what the man city have spent to put their squad together it's minimal.

I definately think that teams capable of challenging for a top 4 place next year.with a few alterations in the summer of 2012, by the time the olympics come around we could have a team that's capable of challenging for the league!! Well that's what I dreamt last night anyway


Offline Kopite999

  • Established
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #709 on: February 18, 2011, 05:23:00 PM »
Forgot about Lucas in that squad. It wasn't intentional!!

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #710 on: February 18, 2011, 06:49:03 PM »
Add Degen to the exit list as he's only out on loan. Likewise El Zahr.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #711 on: February 18, 2011, 10:26:05 PM »
One final attempt. Yes, our form, if you chose to look at our last 5 games, is great, if not the best in the PL. That wasn't my point, however. Neither was it my point good teams doesn't lose the ocassional game at home. My point was that, with the possible exception of Spurs, you won't see either of ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal or City drop points if winning at home against Wigan is what stands between them and 1st or 4th.

If you read a few posts back you see I don't say at all anything less than 1st is mediocrity. I am just saying only a mediocre side drop points against Wigan at home given the  fact it had a  chance to claw back a couple of points in the struggle for 4th. Now, exit Gerrard, Agger and Meireles and we did nothing really (as a team) to claim the points. Is that good enough for you, mate?

One fine and beautiful day when we celebrate no 19 and reflect on the many years that passed between it and no. 18 we're gonna ask ourselves: "what were we thinking we could win the title with players like Lucas, Maxi, Skrtel ... (Continue to add the names of the more than 200 mediocre players that has come and gone for the past 12 years.)"

Can you now see my point?  I know my Swenglish sometimes makes it difficult for you lot but this is prolly the best I can do to put it the way I see it. I'm old enough to have seen us win it 8 times and nothing tells me we're even close to have a squad good enough to repeat that feat anytime soon. Hope I'm wrong, tho.

your english is fine, martin.

and your perspective is an interesting one.

I don't agree with it in the slightest, I have to add.

I have been around long enough to have seen all the great Liverpool teams (of the past 40 years).  And despite what some may like to think,  our dominant years were not all 9-0 victories against Spurs.  There were losses and many drawn games.  There were games where we failed to find a pattern.  There were seasons when we made bad starts and were mid-table.....until finally kicking into action, and going on a long run of unbeaten games in the second half of the season. 

Our present squad is a top squad.  It was enhanced in January.  And it will be further enhanced in the summer.

If you think our squad is mediocre merely because we cannot win home games against the likes of Wigan, and you think chelsea, man utd and arsenal always do win such games, then you are mistaken.  Chelsea have been miserable this season, after sacking Wilkins.  They couldn't, at times, win a game of ping-pong against an elephant.  Arsenal have had indifferent home form at times, these past 2 or 3 seasons, since moving to their new ground.

You need to get behind the team, rather than shouting them down.  Otherwise people will begin to think you are a plastic fan.  Remember those lyrics, "through the wind and the rain."  Well, the sun is starting to raise it's head once again.  You should have a smile on your face.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #712 on: February 18, 2011, 11:14:50 PM »
Brilliant post, Dude. Very poetic in places.

One of the characteristics that we had and the Mancs have had since Ferguson's winning run began was that we could win or achieve the required result without necessarily playing well.

Also they've had seasons where they've started poorly just like we did, only then the mass media didn't write us out of the Championship race as we had a knack of coming good and stringing a run together that saw us finish top. We very rarely led from the front for the whole season.

We have much more cause for optimism going forward than we did on Jan 1st.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #713 on: February 18, 2011, 11:27:15 PM »
Brilliant post, Dude. Very poetic in places.

One of the characteristics that we had and the Mancs have had since Ferguson's winning run began was that we could win or achieve the required result without necessarily playing well.

Also they've had seasons where they've started poorly just like we did, only then the mass media didn't write us out of the Championship race as we had a knack of coming good and stringing a run together that saw us finish top. We very rarely led from the front for the whole season.

We have much more cause for optimism going forward than we did on Jan 1st.

agreed, Tes.  We have great reason to be optimistic about the future.  e.g. I was amazed the other night, watching that young Jaseem lad score five.  And it was the way that he calmly slotted his shots into the corners of the net.   That sight alone, should wet the future taste-buds of any Liverpool fan.

And absolutely spot on re Man Utd. Their dominant era matches our own, in many ways.  Both sides, in their eras of dominance, would often get off to bad starts and then go on a long run of great results after Christmas.  It was just a matter of the side clicking - which would happen at some point.

And titles were won often by hard fought late 1-0 victories, with a scrambled goal off the rain-soaked laces, or a dodgy enough penalty.

Success (despite how weakly it might begin) breeds confidence.  And with confidence one then sees an occasional awesome performance - like the 9-0 against Spurs....or the 5-0 against Forest.  But those results are not the norm.

League titles are a marathon, not a sprint.  They are about hard graft, as opposed to one-off show-boating.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Juan

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 2366
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #714 on: February 19, 2011, 12:06:04 AM »
Just seen Jose Enrique will cost £12 million. He's still got 16 months on his contract so that's very steep. If we can get him for between 6-8 million then that would be more realistic.

Possible team for the 11/12 season

Reina (hopefully)
Johnson
Agger
Carra
Enrique
Adam
Gerrard
Meireles
Young
Suarez
Carrol

Subs
Kelly
Kuyt
Gervinho
Cahill
Cole
Marveaux
Gk: jones( probably leaving in the summer)

That's not a bad squad IF we were to pull them off. But the good thing in our favour is that most of the them, that could possibly come in, would only have 12 months on their contract this summer. It could cost the price of Torres to get them in but with jovanovic and aquillani money and a few others going out we could raise 20 plus million. With a net spend of 25 million it could be very possible. If you consider what the man city have spent to put their squad together it's minimal.

I definately think that teams capable of challenging for a top 4 place next year.with a few alterations in the summer of 2012, by the time the olympics come around we could have a team that's capable of challenging for the league!! Well that's what I dreamt last night anyway

An optimistic team but also realistic. The sqaud would look alot stronger than what we have at the moment. With reagrd your starting 11 I dont think Johnson has much chance of getting that right back position if Kelly keeps holding his own.

I also agree that we are definitely capable of challenging for at least 4th next year. After the disastrous season we've had to be only 6 points behind Chelsea is testament to Kenny and god knows how much higher we'd be in the league had he been given the job in the summer.

Offline Juan

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 2366
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #715 on: February 19, 2011, 12:33:35 AM »
Dude all very valid points and i very much agree that the future is bright.

For the first time in a long while we have owners who seem to actually care more about the success of the club on the pitch than the value of it off it. We have a manager who is not only tactically astute, wants to play attractive football , has the personality of a winner and who loves the club like a fan. Its impossible not to be optimistic.

I wouldnt agree with with you on the squad. On paper we look fine but when it comes down to it this squad relies on 5 or 6 players. After that many of the others are average players making up the numbers. We dont need super stars but we do need players who can replace Reina, Kelly, Gerrard, Meireles and do an equally good job and unfortunately I dont think we have a squad of players who can do that job. But although we may not have them now 6 - 18 months down the line this team is going to be very different from the one we saw last night and for that reason alone I think we have huge cause for optimism.

Offline Martinmarx

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1822
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #716 on: February 19, 2011, 10:20:20 AM »
your english is fine, martin.

and your perspective is an interesting one.

I don't agree with it in the slightest, I have to add.

I have been around long enough to have seen all the great Liverpool teams (of the past 40 years).  And despite what some may like to think,  our dominant years were not all 9-0 victories against Spurs.  There were losses and many drawn games.  There were games where we failed to find a pattern.  There were seasons when we made bad starts and were mid-table.....until finally kicking into action, and going on a long run of unbeaten games in the second half of the season.
 

Is true, I remember a season in the early 80's, I think it was, hwhere we were like 14 points behind by Christmas. But I also remember thinking that wasn't too steep a mountain to climb, and if memory serves me correctly, it turned out it wasn't. THAT, my friend, is the difference I'm trying to put focus on here. Then we had the capacity, the ability, to go on long winning streaks, whereas today we can't. Back then we had a collective notion what it means to play in a red shirt, a will to work your socks off for the next lad. Back then, as far as I remember, we had pride. All of that got lost in the 90's and the 00's.


Our present squad is a top squad.  It was enhanced in January.  And it will be further enhanced in the summer.

We will continue to disagree on this until there's empirical evidence to support this claim as far as my opinion goes. There's nothing, in my opinion, to base that claim on. It doesn't mean I don't support the team, because I do. It means I'm honest enough to admit where and what we are, i.e., anything but a top team with a top squad.

If you think our squad is mediocre merely because we cannot win home games against the likes of Wigan, and you think chelsea, man utd and arsenal always do win such games, then you are mistaken.  Chelsea have been miserable this season, after sacking Wilkins.  They couldn't, at times, win a game of ping-pong against an elephant.  Arsenal have had indifferent home form at times, these past 2 or 3 seasons, since moving to their new ground.

Again, I can't help but feel we're talking past each other. I said time and again above all those team lose the ocassional game. My point is when 1st or 4th is in the pot and they face a team of Wigan's quality at home you will not see them drop points. That, I think, we should take seriously as an indicator we've fallen behind. Mind you this has been the case for a couple of seasons now. People like to point out those marvellous 4 months during the spring of 2009 where we beat pretty much any opposition in front of us. What they do forget tho, is ManU gave us at least 3 chances to run away with it during the autumn only to see us draw at home to West Ham and Fulham and away to Hull. In my honest opinion there is no evidence we have the players to scruff it by the neck when it's needed. We don't have a squad we can rely on against "lesser opposition". If we really were a top team you wouldn't see newly promoted sides or relegation fodder come to Anfield and play us like we were their equals.

You need to get behind the team, rather than shouting them down.  Otherwise people will begin to think you are a plastic fan.  Remember those lyrics, "through the wind and the rain."  Well, the sun is starting to raise it's head once again.  You should have a smile on your face.

I never understood this. Why is it you conclude I'm not behind the team just because I chose to have a critical and nuanced view on the team and the squad. I could just as easily say I'm probably more behind the team than most other as I don't blindly see us as a top team just because our club name is spelled Liverpool. I can only say this season and last has hurt me physically. It hurts so much to see us humiliated time and again, to not be taken seriously. Just because I can see the likes of Skrtel, Kyrgiakos, Carragher, Maxi, Lucas, Aurelio, Ngog and what have you doesn't belong in a top team doesn't mean I love the club any less than you.

I think Kenny will get it right, but I also think it will take quite some time. Rant over.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #717 on: February 21, 2011, 05:36:23 PM »
Is true, I remember a season in the early 80's, I think it was, hwhere we were like 14 points behind by Christmas. But I also remember thinking that wasn't too steep a mountain to climb, and if memory serves me correctly, it turned out it wasn't. THAT, my friend, is the difference I'm trying to put focus on here. Then we had the capacity, the ability, to go on long winning streaks, whereas today we can't. Back then we had a collective notion what it means to play in a red shirt, a will to work your socks off for the next lad. Back then, as far as I remember, we had pride. All of that got lost in the 90's and the 00's.

I pretty much agree, Martin.  The word that you are looking for is consistency.

The great sides had the ability, once they clicked, to be consistent.  We had it back then.  United have it under Ferguson.

You talk about working your socks off, back then.  Yes, we were all socialists back then.....a sea of red, everyone working for the team.  No-one above anyone else.  As Bill Shankly famously said: "The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life."

Sadly, in the modern era of endless media hype/analysis and vast rewards......we no longer have a team of socialist endeavour.  Indeed, if you had been around longer, and saw my posts in here (and in other forums) over the years, you'd be well aware of my view on this issue.  I see (sadly) vast accolades being given to supposed stars (like Gerrard and Torres).....much to the detriment of the team/club.   I have no time for ego, hogging of the ball, or laziness. 


We will continue to disagree on this until there's empirical evidence to support this claim as far as my opinion goes. There's nothing, in my opinion, to base that claim on. It doesn't mean I don't support the team, because I do. It means I'm honest enough to admit where and what we are, i.e., anything but a top team with a top squad.

but Martin, you talk of empirical evidence, in a game where you are not in control of all the variables.   We could go out and spend 75 million this summer on three outstanding players - only to find Man Utd and Chelsea have gone out and spent 200 million each, on 5 or 6 top players.   Plus the ball is round, and injuries come along.  These are issues that you cannot control.  You can prepare for success, but you can never guarantee it.  It is a game of numerous variables (many of them outside your control).  It is a game of passion and belief.

Look at Chelsea.  They spent another huge chunk of money in January - and they might well not qualify for next season's Champions League.

BTW I think their 50 million spend on Torres was madness.  Liverpool got by far the best of that deal.  I suspect the lad's best days are behind him.   He is physically, nor mentally, at the races.



Again, I can't help but feel we're talking past each other. I said time and again above all those team lose the ocassional game. My point is when 1st or 4th is in the pot and they face a team of Wigan's quality at home you will not see them drop points.

look at Chelsea this past weekend.  Under your hypothesis, Chelsea would be highly motivated to take perhaps their best chance of a trophy this season, against a struggling Everton side, who are only 3 points above the relegation zone.  It's a home game for the Londoners.  Chelsea just need to turn up and they will win.  Right?


I never understood this. Why is it you conclude I'm not behind the team just because I chose to have a critical and nuanced view on the team and the squad. I could just as easily say I'm probably more behind the team than most other as I don't blindly see us as a top team

the problem is this - I NEVER see you content.

It's one thing being critical of elements of the team, or players.  Look at my much recorded view of Gerrard and Torres.  But you need to be positive once in a while. 

I recall one of my colleagues at work.  And feck, he would find problems or negatives in everything.  Endless negativity. If he found glorious gardens and waterfalls in heaven, he'd be complaining about the cost of maintaining them. 

BTW I often told him that.

We can all analyse things til the cows come home.  But overall one has to be positive about things.  Otherwise what is the point of getting out of bed in the morning. 

BTW a Panamanian friend found me a Liverpool shirt on Saturday (8 dollars new).  He brought it from 200 miles away, just for me.  And I am as happy as a pig in sh.it pretty happy.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #718 on: February 21, 2011, 05:48:00 PM »
Dude all very valid points and i very much agree that the future is bright.

For the first time in a long while we have owners who seem to actually care more about the success of the club on the pitch than the value of it off it. We have a manager who is not only tactically astute, wants to play attractive football , has the personality of a winner and who loves the club like a fan. Its impossible not to be optimistic.

I wouldnt agree with with you on the squad. On paper we look fine but when it comes down to it this squad relies on 5 or 6 players. After that many of the others are average players making up the numbers. We dont need super stars but we do need players who can replace Reina, Kelly, Gerrard, Meireles and do an equally good job and unfortunately I dont think we have a squad of players who can do that job. But although we may not have them now 6 - 18 months down the line this team is going to be very different from the one we saw last night and for that reason alone I think we have huge cause for optimism.

I think we are very close, Juan.

OK lads like Pouslen and Konchesky would never be good enough, in my book.

But look at lads like Mereless and Kelly.  Would you have put them in your key player list, say 6 weeks ago?  And yet look how good they look now, under a different manager/system/role.   ASI spotted Kelly at the start of the season.  And our AnfieldRoad scout was spot-on.  When I finally had a good chance to look at him, I started to see what ASI was talking about.

Agger is another lad who would always be in my team - when fit.  Superb player.

Yes, we need to strengthen our defence, and maybe bring in a natural wide player.  But we are not far away.

The great thing us now, that rather than having to poke around in the cheap sales, we are finally in a position to bring in top class lads.  That will make a helluva difference.

And I have to give thanks to Rafa, for the systems he put in place, that are starting to throw up top class young talent.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Kopite999

  • Established
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Commentary on the games through the season....
« Reply #719 on: February 21, 2011, 09:05:33 PM »
Kenny himself gave rafa a lot of praise for what he did at the academy. It's great to see lads coming through the system. It's also great to see kenny give the likes of coady and sterling a chance to mingle with the first team because they've been playing so well for the u 18's. After given the chance to go to Prague last week, on Saturday they both were outstanding back in with their age group. Coady scored a belter. I think the experience for them can't be underestimated