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Author Topic: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?  (Read 5134 times)

Offline Ed

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Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« on: October 06, 2012, 02:39:56 PM »
Apologies for creating a thread with their name in the title,
but if some of the statements in it are true then it is disturbing
to say the least!

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/a-worrying-investigation-into-the-relationship-between-manchester-united-referees/

Kinda makes you wonder why nobody has ever written on this subject before...

Offline Tes

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2012, 05:22:46 PM »
There's a huge thread on this on TLW, but like a lot of figures on their own, they could say one thing that with further data or placed in a different context it could easily indicate something different.

That figure and other snippets I've read, for example referees being demoted to ref in divisions they haven't appeared in for a number of years, or not getting a Manc game for a long period of time after Taggart's complained publicly about them 'appear' to indicate there's 'something in it'.

However, you would need a whole lot more data to be sure there really is something underhand.
For example with Webb, what percentage of matches has he officiated in for all the other clubs? What is the percentage split for penalties given to other clubs, and in comparison with the number of times he's officiated over a club's matches. For example if he's only had 3 Arsenal games, and they were all against teams where they had much less possession than normal, and had very little possession in the opponents' defensive third of the pitch, and most of that was outside of the penalty area, and they had a weakened team in regards to players that would normally get in and around the penalty, then you would expect the percentage of penalties awarded by him to Arsenal to be very low, if any.

Likewise with a referee 'appearing to be 'demoted'. Was there a shortage of referees available in that league due to illness or work commitments? Did the fixture list fall in such a way that certain refs couldn't officiate certain games because they either have some declared interest in the club (ie support them) or they live too close to the ground to be awarded the game, and all those factors aligned in such a way that the division was short of referees and the said referee happened to be 'spare' because again there wasn't a PL game for him because of the same factors that created a shortage in the other division.

I've read all the articles mentioned both here and on the TLW thread and there does appear to be 'something' in it but without a whole host of other data around the examples and comparisons using the same data to look at other teams, it's hard to say definitively that there's indeed 'something going on'.

Take another example, Mark Halsey. How many times has he reffed a game where he's 'missed' or 'chosen not to give' a more obvious penalty and then given a 'soft one' to the opposition?
Or take a referee that sends off a player with a straight red for a 'dangerous' tackle. How many times has he done that, how many times has he awarded a yellow, or no card at all, and are the tackles of a similar nature consistently punished the same way or is he inconsistent in what punishment he dishes out? Also, what was his position relative to each tackle and is his positioning (good or bad) a factor in what punishment he dishes out or does he get his positioning consistently right or wrong and is there a pattern between position and punishment?

Most of us would say that the Mancs appear to get more soft penalties, fewer soft or 'nailed on' ones seem to be awarded against them, and especially at Old Trafford. They seem to get more favourable treatment all round off certain referees, their players seem to avoid punishment more often and Taggart seems to be able to say what he wants with less punishment handed out to him.
But how much notice do we take of other teams and their all round treatment and behaviour?
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2012, 05:56:31 PM »
However, you would need a whole lot more data to be sure there really is something underhand.
For example with Webb, what percentage of matches has he officiated in for all the other clubs?
Sure you could torture statistics all day or ask the question

Why is he been awarded so many Utd. games if he is giving them so many penos?

Offline Tes

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2012, 06:19:39 PM »
Is one based on the other? Is he being given games because he awards penalties or is it that as they are an attacking team that set up base camp on the edge of their opponents' penalty area that the amount of potential tackles in the penalty area is increased and therefore the chance of a foul in the penalty area increases and so does the possibility of him having to award a penalty?

Ed, I know what you're saying and my 'instinct' is that they get an 'easy ride' and what feels like preferential treatment, both when compared to us overall and when compared to us in head to head matches and therefore a direct comparison.

Scholes has a reputation for his method of tackling which I think is fair and has developed it over many seasons, with many instances to back it up, whereas Luis is condemned as 'diver' and is wrongly being deprived of some penalties, basically on the sayso of Taggart after last season's match at Anfield. Before that game there was barely a murmur about it and then because he was 'foreign' and 'foreigners all do it' and because he was an attacker.

So in one case, a deserved and factually correct reputation is not having a negative effect, in fact it probably  helps as 'light' is made of his 'inability' to tackle, whereas the other has an 'unfair' reputation that is being compounded by wrong decisions that may or may not be being made with that 'reputation' in mind.

Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2012, 08:12:18 PM »
18%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd say 18% is fairly damning...it's also interesting that Webb is widely regarded amongst the Manure biased press that he's the best as well...


Offline Tes

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2012, 08:33:00 PM »
.......but can you prove he was on the grassy knoll? 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2012, 09:17:51 PM »
18%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd say 18% is fairly damning...it's also interesting that Webb is widely regarded amongst the Manure biased press that he's the best as well...

.......but can you prove he was on the grassy knoll? 

"Howard Webb has issued 10 of his 54 penalties to Man Utd. More than 18% and remarkably 10 penalties in 16 games."


http://footballspeak.com/post/2012/02/26/Howard-Webb-Manchester-United-Love-Affiar.aspx

Probably would have awarded a penalty to Oswald and sent Jackie Kennedy off  ;D

Offline Tes

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2012, 09:33:55 PM »

Probably would have awarded a penalty to Oswald and sent Jackie Kennedy off  ;D

Kennedy would have been off for violent conduct - "you can't go losing your head like that, young man".
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2012, 03:10:59 AM »
Kennedy would have been off for violent conduct - "you can't go losing your head like that, young man".
;D

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 03:06:14 PM »
 :D
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Howard Webb 18% of his Penos to United?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 03:09:35 PM »
re the original issue, I have hinted at it previously, but in the general context of overall premiership refereeing, I have noticed many baffling decisions by refs over the years.  Decisions, that I personally cannot discount as being mere differences of opinion about an incident.

if we were speaking in private, I would air my fears. 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.