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Author Topic: Summer Transfer Window  (Read 122570 times)

Offline Ed

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #180 on: June 29, 2012, 12:37:46 AM »
He's certainly got ambition and guts. It would have been easy to stay at Swansea, look to repeat this season past, accepted the plaudits for making them no one season wonder and done 'a Moyes', staying at Swansea without the pressure and expectation of actually having to win anything whilst becoming a Freeman of Swansea.
Maybe and tbh i don't expect anything other than hard work and commitment from him. It's just the scale of the task that he
has ahead of him.

We can compete, sort of, even win it, but it all counts for nothing if we don't qualify for a competition. Not for the kudos or the chance to test youself against the cream of the continent or the chance to see top players playing against us at Anfield or experiencing some of football's other temples, but we have to qualify because of the money.
Winning, having your name inscribed in real time seconds before receiving the trophy, having your name recorded in history, none of that is as important as finishing second, third or fourth anymore.
Yeah, that's why Ayre is a complete idiot because he said in effect Kenny would have gotten the bullet even if he'd
won the FA cup. Makes no sense to me what message that sends out to the players competing in the CC & FA cup
next season. Winning trophies is why the club exists, so if the Managing Director has no time for it, then there's a problem.
I mean forget Rodgers with his philosophy of how the game should be played, winning trophies IS the philosophy at
our club (sorry, used to be  :( )

His two other big tests, one should be this Summer and the other next Summer, will be Carra and Gerrard. Also to a much lesser degree but it could still cause some ripples is if he sells Spearing this Summer.
They aint the future of the club, that's for sure  :D (Suprised Stevie is continuing with the international gig. Actually, I'm not because
he's a glory hunter (caps) and I don't have a problem with it because he's been loyal to the club. I do have a problem with him being
as influential as he is, talisman etc., and expecting to be first eleven when fit because while recognising his quality, i don't see his
influence on the pitch anymore).

Offline Juan

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #181 on: June 29, 2012, 11:00:32 AM »
Agree, I think though that we need to focus on the areas where a relatively low net spend can give
us a competitive edge i.e. since we can't realistically fork out £20 million on a player, then areas such
as the academy, scouting and sports science should be a priority.

Let's start with we have the best academy set up in the country, or the best scouting network or the top
sports science people.

Agreed we do need to be looking at players who can bring us bring us some quality without necessarily commanding a huge transfer fee. Thats why Im very surprised we arent going for Luuk De Jong from Twente. Newcastle are probably going to pay around 10 million for the guy. Hes 21 and already a dutch International striker. According to any of the the ex dutch internationals hes going to be a huge player for them in the future. These were the sort of deals I thought FSG were looking to make happen.

Newcastle are looking at another shrewd piece of business by targeting the French right back. Again they dont seem to be offering huge money. This sounds crazy for a club like Liverpool but at the moment we could do worse than looking to the players Newcastle are trying to sign.

Sky Sports sources are also reporting that Sigurdsson has agreed terms with Spurs, completed his medical and will sign next week. Im not sure what that say about the cash we have, the wages we are willing to offer or what type of players we will be able to bring in the summer.

Offline Juan

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #182 on: June 29, 2012, 11:12:42 AM »
It'll be a start if it's the manager that's held firm over the wages issue if we don't sign Sigurdsson. It lays down a marker early on. His two other big tests, one should be this Summer and the other next Summer, will be Carra and Gerrard. Also to a much lesser degree but it could still cause some ripples is if he sells Spearing this Summer.

That is the optimistic way to look at it alright Tes, Rodgers isnt willing to give Sigurdsson the wages hes after. What I fear though is that its the club refusing to sanction the wages. That would be a different story. I dont know I am getting a different vibe about how the owners intend to go about their business. Im starting to think that the manager will only have as much net spend as he would have under the previous owners. Thats fine if the club do significantly improve the academy and the scouting network. But if they dont we are going to struggle to get near the top 5 for the foreseeable future.

Offline Tes

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #183 on: June 29, 2012, 12:13:28 PM »
That is the optimistic way to look at it alright Tes, Rodgers isnt willing to give Sigurdsson the wages hes after. What I fear though is that its the club refusing to sanction the wages. That would be a different story. I dont know I am getting a different vibe about how the owners intend to go about their business. Im starting to think that the manager will only have as much net spend as he would have under the previous owners. Thats fine if the club do significantly improve the academy and the scouting network. But if they dont we are going to struggle to get near the top 5 for the foreseeable future.

I think to a certain degree we are being hamstrung by the size of the contracts that have previously been handed out. Kuyt's gone, but there's still Maxi, Aquilani, Cole and Carra, all of which don't contribute enough (if anything) to warrent the salaries they are on.
We need to rid ourselves of these and of all the excess amount of players in the first and reserve team squads that are 'simply there', again offering nothing.

Without CL football our income is down. We therefore have to reduce the percentage of both income and turnover that goes out in wages. There is some major financial housekeeping to do before we can start adding more to the payroll.

We have to live within our means and FSG are trying to re-balance and re-distribute the outgoings we have so we can gain maximum return on our outgoings.

As far as Siggi goes, I'd imagine that we were offering more than he'd agreed to accept from Swansea to play under Rodgers. He would have the chance to play under Rodgers and earn more, however if Spurs have offered 50% again to what we offered, likely bringing his package to twice or even three times what he had originally been offered at Swansea, he has a major decision to make.
Spurs have previously been paying out less than we have. Levy has run a tight ship for several years and can now offer more it seems because we have got ourselves in a mess with our payroll level.
Also, he is still a young, unproven player. 1.5 seasons in the Bundesliga, 0.5 a season in the PL, and let's not forget he was playing for a permanent move. Will he reproduce the form of 6 months over the term of a 3 or 4 year contract?
He's a player with a certain amount of potential, he's not proven and he's not a player being chased by a group of the biggest names, therefore we shouldn't be looking at paying him more than circa £40k a week until he's proven himself for 2 seasons. Then we can re-evaluate his contract and he will have 'earned' it.
 
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #184 on: June 29, 2012, 03:09:10 PM »
For the first time for as long as I can remember I'm not that worried about our lack of activity in the transfer market. It's not saying I don't think we need to strenghten our squad. I simply think Brendan is right to thouroughly evaluate the squad and how it will travel with his ideas on how footy should be played. For once I think taking things slowly and once at a time would be a wise move.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #185 on: June 29, 2012, 04:37:40 PM »
That is the optimistic way to look at it alright Tes, Rodgers isnt willing to give Sigurdsson the wages hes after. What I fear though is that its the club refusing to sanction the wages. That would be a different story. I dont know I am getting a different vibe about how the owners intend to go about their business. Im starting to think that the manager will only have as much net spend as he would have under the previous owners. Thats fine if the club do significantly improve the academy and the scouting network. But if they dont we are going to struggle to get near the top 5 for the foreseeable future.
Good point Juan, i think that's important. Rodgers appeared to get what he wanted in terms
of no DOF and his mini-bootroom plan. One wonders what the price of such a compromise was
i.e. certain restrictions on recruitment (budget), contracts, wages...

Offline Tes

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #186 on: June 30, 2012, 12:19:59 AM »
Good point Juan, i think that's important. Rodgers appeared to get what he wanted in terms
of no DOF and his mini-bootroom plan. One wonders what the price of such a compromise was
i.e. certain restrictions on recruitment (budget), contracts, wages...

But having compromised on no DOF (something that would have cost an extra salary) and put in what was neccessary in order to get their man (at least interested) why risk him walking away or hamstringing him with a bunch of restrictions? We will have an overall budget but I don't think the name above the manager's door makes any difference.
Past administrations have saddled us with some big contracts to meet whilst getting very little return or value from those who have been gifted those contracts.
Also I think there was an initial priming put in by FSG last Summer in order to secure CL football and hence the revenue it brings. We would then continue to build and stabilise slowly with the revenue, wisely securing (through canny player recruitment and investment) our position each season and giving us the revenue to continue to keep our place in the top four. But Kenny's sort of messed it up.

I'm not sure FSG actually 'want' us to be the best once more. The cost of buying the players to get you to be 1st is far higher than the extra prize money you receive. You may or may not go further in the CL (we didn't need a PL winning squad to reach two finals in three years and neither have Chelsea this season). Whilst you may attract greater sponsorship deals and more worldwide fans (marketing opportunities) the cost of both transfer fees and wages required to win the PL on a 1 in 3 year basis even, would still not be covered by the extra revenue increase.   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ed

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #187 on: June 30, 2012, 01:18:55 AM »
But having compromised on no DOF (something that would have cost an extra salary) and put in what was neccessary in order to get their man (at least interested) why risk him walking away or hamstringing him with a bunch of restrictions?
Dunno, but this story (naturally it may just be bull) doesn't exactly inspire confidence:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-eye-mark-davies-the-bolton-946063

The mind boggles! & then there's Juan's point about de Jong:

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2012/06/29/newcastle-chiefs-head-to-holland-for-de-jong-talks-72703-31287195/#ixzz1zE1fWDYf

Offline Tes

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #188 on: June 30, 2012, 12:27:53 PM »
I think we're going to have to initially accept the 'individuals' the manager selects and wait until we see how the 'collective' functions, more than ever before. None of us would have been excited by any member of the Swansea squad if Dalglish had bought them last Summer.

The worry is always the standard that he chooses to go after. Whether he can set his sights higher than if he were still lokking to buy for Swansea. That's if of course the budget to do so is actually there.

The effects of Dalglish and Comolli's disasterous transfer dealings could continue to be felt until Rodgers proves that he's no Dalglish or Comolli. Until then he will be under Dalglish and Comilli's cloud, which seems harsh as a new man should always be judged favourably until he proves otherwise.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #189 on: June 30, 2012, 01:35:04 PM »
70,000 quid a week for 21 year old Sigurdsson??   A lad that has scored a mere 7 goals in top flight football.

Spurs can have him.  Wonder if they'd be interested in Cole as well.
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Offline Juan

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #190 on: June 30, 2012, 01:53:18 PM »
I think we're going to have to initially accept the 'individuals' the manager selects and wait until we see how the 'collective' functions, more than ever before. None of us would have been excited by any member of the Swansea squad if Dalglish had bought them last Summer.

The worry is always the standard that he chooses to go after. Whether he can set his sights higher than if he were still lokking to buy for Swansea. That's if of course the budget to do so is actually there.

The effects of Dalglish and Comolli's disasterous transfer dealings could continue to be felt until Rodgers proves that he's no Dalglish or Comolli. Until then he will be under Dalglish and Comilli's cloud, which seems harsh as a new man should always be judged favourably until he proves otherwise.

Good points Tes, we dont actually know how much Rodgers has to spend. Maybe we are being linked with what we would consider lesser quality cheaper players for good reason.

I think links to the likes of Davies are fabricated. Like Ed says I wouldnt be inspired if it were true. Players like Davies may have been good enough targets for Swansea but we have to be more ambitious than that. Im not looking for us to splash money on world beaters but Newcastle have shown us there are plenty of quality bargains on the continent.

Im just waiting to see this plan of FSGs to sign young up and coming quality talent take off because so far we have seen little evidence of it. Rodgers first couple of signings will be very interesting and I suppose will give us a better idea of where our finances stand. I cant see us competing with the top teams signing players like Davies though.


Offline Juan

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #191 on: June 30, 2012, 02:01:13 PM »
70,000 quid a week for 21 year old Sigurdsson??   A lad that has scored a mere 7 goals in top flight football.

Spurs can have him.  Wonder if they'd be interested in Cole as well.

Agreed Dude, hes definitely unproven and if they are apparently his wages  then Spurs wont have competition for his signature.

However what Im more interested with this deal is who is calling the shots at the club. Surely the fact Rodgers is a new manager you would expect the owners to back him if he wants Sigurdsson, especially considering hes young and wont command a huge transfer fee. However if the deal is being vetoed I want to know by who. If the owners have stopped it does that mean they are going to start interfering with other future transfers. That could prove very problematic. Just a thought.

Offline Tes

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #192 on: June 30, 2012, 06:52:48 PM »
Agreed Dude, hes definitely unproven and if they are apparently his wages  then Spurs wont have competition for his signature.

However what Im more interested with this deal is who is calling the shots at the club. Surely the fact Rodgers is a new manager you would expect the owners to back him if he wants Sigurdsson, especially considering hes young and wont command a huge transfer fee. However if the deal is being vetoed I want to know by who. If the owners have stopped it does that mean they are going to start interfering with other future transfers. That could prove very problematic. Just a thought.

That's the crux of it. From what we know Siggi agreed a package with Swansea, and a price was agreed with Hoffenheim, the contract just needed signing.

Then Rodgers leaves and comes to us. Siggi is quoted as saying he wants to work with Rodgers.

Here's the speculation: Rodgers will know the 'sort of package' Swansea agreed even though it's doubtful that he would have been the one to negotiate it.
Siggi wants to work with Rodgers so the club make an enquiry. The wage demanded of us appears to be far in excess of the one that Siggi agreed to accept to play for Swansea, even though he apparently wants to work with Rodgers.
If you were Rodgers what would you do? Think 'hang on a minute, you agreed to x at Swansea, now you want 3x because it's Liverpool'.

The fact that it never got to a point where we looked to negotiate a fee seems to point to us being 'strongly' put off by the wage demand. Now we don't know who it was who was put off the most, but Rodgers can't be feeling too good towards Siggi if the wages demanded of us were so much more than what he'd agreed to at Swansea.

Football is littered with players negotiating a move to a 'larger' club and then expecting wages far, far in excess of what they were previously being paid.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 07:00:43 PM by Tes »
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Offline Tes

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #193 on: July 01, 2012, 10:11:18 AM »
From: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/destination-unknown-for-sigurdsson-family-as-indemand-gylfi-plots-his-next-move-7901840.html

"Sigurdsson arrived at Reading on trial in 2005 with a mission to follow in the footsteps of fellow Icelandic stars Ivar Ingimarsson and Brynjar Gunnarsson.

Steve Coppell's scouting team was then headed by none other than Brian McDermott. Four years later, and by coincidence, the now Royals chief had the chance to work with Sigurdsson in the first team after Rodgers was sacked just six months into the job.

Sigurdsson, who had undertaken loan spells at Shrewsbury Town and Crewe Alexandra, took off, scoring 21 goals in 44 games that season as Reading reached the FA Cup quarter-finals and narrowly missed out on the Championship play-offs.

By the end of the season he was voted the club's player of the season, but then Hoffenheim called in August 2010 and offered Reading a fee in the region of £6.5million.

After a good start in Germany, scoring ten goals in just 13 starts, injury curtailed his first season in the Bundesliga. In truth, he found it hard to get back into the starting team until Rodgers called to set up his loan move to Wales in January, where he didn't look back with seven goals in 18 appearances for the Swans.



He seems very 'stop, start'. Scored in a burst initially for Hoffenheim but couldn't replicate that form on his return from injury. New start on loan at Swansea and he does the same.

There seems to be a big gap between his flying start at Hoffenheim and going on loan for the second half of last season, at least half the 2010/11 season and then the first half of the 2011/12 season.

So would Swansea be the burst and then he 'continues' with us having lost the momentum and form or will we get a good half season or season followed by a 'drop off' when he can't achieve a starting place and becomes just another making up the squad numbers.

Maybe he'd maintain his form in a settled enviroment or would we suffer if he picks up an injury of some sort like at Hoffenheim?

Whoever he signs for will be his fourth club in 4 seasons. That and his inconsistent runs of form mean it's sensible not to offer him wages in the 60k-90k bracket but in the 20k-45k bracket and let him prove he's worth more over two seasons.

Apparently, we haven't been able to agree a fee with Hoffenheim for some reason. It's rumoured because they are asking for much more than they had agreed with Swansea.

What is apparent is that clubs and players appear to ask for more when we're involved than for example when Spurs and Arsenal are.
We have a long held reputation of paying out large fees (unlike Arsenal) and top end salaries (unlike Spurs with their sensible salary cap).
Clubs and players appear not to try it on with those two, clubs with fees when Arsenal are involved and players with salaries (especially) when Spurs are involved.

Spurs, under Levy, have reigned in their spending, and now have a reputation for paying mid-level fees and wages. A policy which has still seen them attract some top players and be more successful in the last 3 seasons than us, whilst their policy has been running for longer and becoming more established.
In other words, it hasn't affected them.

We need to become a club that has a reputation for producing it's own like Ajax, Barcelona, West Ham (have done in the past), paying 'value for money' fees like Arsenal, having a lower (than now), unbreakable wage structure (like Spurs) and gaining maximum value when selling (like Arsenal and Barca) - asking absolute top money for players other clubs want (but we don't want to sell), inserting buy back clauses in the better youngsters we sell and inserting sell-on clauses in every player we sell, no matter their age or at least all the under 30s.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #194 on: July 02, 2012, 10:27:15 PM »
I'd be a very very happy man if we could get Adam Johnson. He'd be great for us. Trust me.
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