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Author Topic: Summer Transfer Window  (Read 123947 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #450 on: July 31, 2012, 10:12:33 PM »
Everyone forgets the contribution to our success made by the likes of Geoff Twentyman (The brains
behind a conveyor belt of stellar talent that kept us at the top). Compare & contrast that with the recent
fumblings with loan players and it's clear to me that it's not about 1st 11 or the manager but being
competitive across every area of the club. FSG need to pull the finger out and stop trying to let the LFC
franchise take care of itself and lose the on the cheap attitude, we need a serious and experienced
football person  with strong decision making ability dead centre running the club and it's not in my opinion
Brendan Rodgers (who's merely the coach) or Ian Ayre (get real!).

There's a few of us one here who haven't and long for the day when once again we had a scout or scouts who could actually pick a player.

The thing is Ed, we've made these points over and over on here since Henry, Werner et al arrived, and still nothing changes. We are so lacking in so much infastructure and expertise in too many areas.
Where's the football knowledge in the boardroom? The scouting at every age group from 1st team downwards is failing to find the players that other clubs manage to. Our transfer negotiations are a joke. The media handling and PR is non-existant. Likewise our influence within the FA's corriders of power, and we simply have no-one who knows how to handle the politics side of football.

Henry and Werner are baseball people, brought up with the game and not only have a knowledge of it there's the advantage for the Redsoxs of them having an emotional attachment as well as a business one.
With us, there's nothing approaching that. I'm not sure how far they'd go to 'really' learn about all aspects of football. If they can't summon up the enthusiasm to immerse themselves like they do with baseball, then they need to appoint a board and a CEO and a management structure to do it instead.

Ian Ayre is third division, on a good day. If they invested in the management side then all the money going through the club could bring a far greater reward than it is doing as we would be so much smarter about how we did everything. We would give off an impression of a well run ship, strong, efficient, respected, but we're not and we don't.

Do Henry and Co see it yet, will they ever or have they decided to 'try' to be successful on the cheap. Afterall, we're not a 'franchise' in their beloved baseball. 

This is not a whinge about transfer 'spending' but rather a lack of 'investment' in the whole club structure that is required for a club to stand the chance of ultimately being successful.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #451 on: July 31, 2012, 10:41:19 PM »
There's a few of us one here who haven't and long for the day when once again we had a scout or scouts who could actually pick a player.

The thing is Ed, we've made these points over and over on here since Henry, Werner et al arrived, and still nothing changes. We are so lacking in so much infastructure and expertise in too many areas.
Where's the football knowledge in the boardroom? The scouting at every age group from 1st team downwards is failing to find the players that other clubs manage to. Our transfer negotiations are a joke. The media handling and PR is non-existant. Likewise our influence within the FA's corriders of power, and we simply have no-one who knows how to handle the politics side of football.

Henry and Werner are baseball people, brought up with the game and not only have a knowledge of it there's the advantage for the Redsoxs of them having an emotional attachment as well as a business one.
With us, there's nothing approaching that. I'm not sure how far they'd go to 'really' learn about all aspects of football. If they can't summon up the enthusiasm to immerse themselves like they do with baseball, then they need to appoint a board and a CEO and a management structure to do it instead.

Ian Ayre is third division, on a good day. If they invested in the management side then all the money going through the club could bring a far greater reward than it is doing as we would be so much smarter about how we did everything. We would give off an impression of a well run ship, strong, efficient, respected, but we're not and we don't.

Do Henry and Co see it yet, will they ever or have they decided to 'try' to be successful on the cheap. Afterall, we're not a 'franchise' in their beloved baseball. 

This is not a whinge about transfer 'spending' but rather a lack of 'investment' in the whole club structure that is required for a club to stand the chance of ultimately being successful.
I agree 100%

The crazy thing is that the appointment of Rodgers is a sound one if there's a DoF. He doesn't work out,
1 season is lost, but the club continues and the decisions have been taken with a strong eye on how they
affect the future of the club hence signing Allen, Dempsey and loaning Carroll are properly scrutinised, but
more importantly there's a firewall in place to protect LFC.

It's absolute madness, imo, when a guy is stepping up to the challenge of coaching a top club and then
additionally insists on and is given carte blanche to oversee all these other really important responsibilities
that require serious decision-making experience at the highest level.

What really annoys me though is rather than hearing announcements about appointments of important
people to senior positions this Summer from the FFSG ( :D ) we've been treated to a serious of glib one-liners
and self-eulogising statements from the guy from Swansea FC.

Now we're supposed to enter the new season, full of blind-faith and if it doesn't work out be patient. ::)

I'm rational (sometimes  :) ) and reasonable enough to make the argument that:

a) There's no guarantee (obviously because the coach has no winning pedigree to speak of)
that it will work out.

b) Surely if it doesn't work out, we're in a worse position to that in which we started because all the
important decisions have been tainted by the guy who hasn't worked out.

FFS  :'(

Offline Tes

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #452 on: July 31, 2012, 11:33:30 PM »
I agree 100%

The crazy thing is that the appointment of Rodgers is a sound one if there's a DoF. He doesn't work out,
1 season is lost, but the club continues and the decisions have been taken with a strong eye on how they
affect the future of the club hence signing Allen, Dempsey and loaning Carroll are properly scrutinised, but
more importantly there's a firewall in place to protect LFC.

It's absolute madness, imo, when a guy is stepping up to the challenge of coaching a top club and then
additionally insists on and is given carte blanche to oversee all these other really important responsibilities
that require serious decision-making experience at the highest level.

What really annoys me though is rather than hearing announcements about appointments of important
people to senior positions this Summer from the FFSG ( :D ) we've been treated to a serious of glib one-liners
and self-eulogising statements from the guy from Swansea FC.

Now we're supposed to enter the new season, full of blind-faith and if it doesn't work out be patient. ::)

I'm rational (sometimes  :) ) and reasonable enough to make the argument that:

a) There's no guarantee (obviously because the coach has no winning pedigree to speak of)
that it will work out.

b) Surely if it doesn't work out, we're in a worse position to that in which we started because all the
important decisions have been tainted by the guy who hasn't worked out.

FFS  :'(

Totally agree, Ed. We're at a point where we have to get this right or we could be faced with the best we can achieve is being 'best of the rest', permanently marooned outside of the top four.

It's all well and good having a young coach but there seems to be no experienced team behind him or a set of experienced people above him, as you say to create a 'firewall' and hopefully lessen the risks of mistakes that could prove truly damning. His methods and theories are all in an embryonic state, unproven with time or experience.

Patience is easier to have if there is previous evidence that the manager's methods are successful. It's a massive leap of faith at a time when money is the real difference maker and we don't even have that to fall back on to help get us back on track should we have the odd deviation.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #453 on: August 01, 2012, 12:05:44 AM »
Totally agree, Ed. We're at a point where we have to get this right or we could be faced with the best we can achieve is being 'best of the rest', permanently marooned outside of the top four.
Yeah because essentially at club level we lack strength in depth and it takes time, experience and
astute judgement  to assemble a squad of people to run the show behind the scenes. (plus a finger on the
pulse of the football network to know who's up and coming, top of their game and on the wane
in the different fields of expertise). All we've seen is knee-jerk, chopping and changing of personnel.

It's all well and good having a young coach but there seems to be no experienced team behind him or a set of experienced people above him, as you say to create a 'firewall' and hopefully lessen the risks of mistakes that could prove truly damning. His methods and theories are all in an embryonic state, unproven with time or experience.
Agree, it's unprecedented for a coach to resort to blowing his trumpet ahead of any concrete footballing
achievement (I mean the Special One had won the Champions League) and in particular to do so with
something as paltry as a 180 page report. It reeks of self-promotion and lacks any of the humility befitting
his status in the game.

Even just to have an experienced person to have a quiet word in the ear and tell him in the nicest possible
way to STFU would be a start. I mean it hardly engenders any sort of confidence in the gaffer if on the one
hand he wants to talk about a book he wrote (maybe he could go on Oprah after the Dude to talk about it  :D)
and on the other states that it took Spurs 6 transfer windows to reach top 4...

Patience is easier to have if there is previous evidence that the manager's methods are successful. It's a massive leap of faith at a time when money is the real difference maker and we don't even have that to fall back on to help get us back on track should we have the odd deviation.
I think so, Rafa had major achievement behind him as did Fergie. BR is definitely not in that league and the stakes are higher
than ever.

Offline Tes

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #454 on: August 01, 2012, 12:38:53 AM »
Making that 180 page document public shows a lack of understanding of what is expected at a top club. Why mention it unless it was a spot of self promotion. And therefore, why feel the need for self promotion?
Or is it self justification? The only way he will justify the owners' coice and faith in him is by delivering. We make a fist of a challenge for fourth. We may finish fifth, but that means finishing ahead of one of the two Mancs, Arsenal, Spurs or Chelsea.
That will be progress, and by extension, justification for him being chosen.

If he stops the slide down the league and at the same time avoids embarrassment in the two domestic cups and we put on a strong show in Europe and do ourselves justice, then most people will feel he's made a solid start.

By telling us all how he's this and that, will do this, believes in that etc, he's setting himself up for a fall. He's in the job, he's anounced himself, told the world who and what he thinks he is, now he needs to just get his head down and start putting things in place.

He's had so little time to prepare for the start of our season on Thursday, and with the staggered arrival of his squad for pre-season training, plus the likes of Coates, Suarez and Bellamy absent etc, I'm surprised he's had any time to talk as much as he has.

I hope he realises that excuses or 'reasons' will not suffice on Thursday or next week. We have to go through. We have to be in the competition proper when it kicks off. We are synonymous with European competition. It's not an occassional treat but part of our staple football diet.

Hopefully we'll actually have something worth talking about on Thursday, rather tha have to talk about talk anymore.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #455 on: August 01, 2012, 01:22:27 AM »
Making that 180 page document public shows a lack of understanding of what is expected at a top club. Why mention it unless it was a spot of self promotion. And therefore, why feel the need for self promotion?
Or is it self justification?
Yeah, I can't quite put my finger on why it unnerves me too. I think it has something to do with
the odd motivation behind it....I mean by all means if you're a young confident manager come
in and tell the Mancs that you're going to knock them off our perch etc. but to say that predictions
for next season are garbage? and divulge information about the hiring process that also serves
to tell us some useless information about a 180 page report submitted to people who wouldn't
be able to understand it anyway (almost as if he was dying to tell people....i mean wtf indiscreet
or what).

The only way he will justify the owners' choice and faith in him is by delivering. We make a fist of a
challenge for fourth. We may finish fifth, but that means finishing ahead of one of the two Mancs,
Arsenal, Spurs or Chelsea. That will be progress, and by extension, justification for him being chosen.

If he stops the slide down the league and at the same time avoids embarrassment in the two domestic cups
and we put on a strong show in Europe and do ourselves justice, then most people will feel he's made a solid start.
I'd probably call off the attack dogs  :D can't vouch for the Dude though (sometimes he can be awful stubborn
about things...don't think he liked the second coming of that Dalglish fella   ;D )

I'm surprised he's had any time to talk as much as he has.
Sure seems to have more time to talk to the press then certain players in the squad. Which f**kin' reminds me,
is it my imagination or was Enrique unbelievably poor in pre-season to date??

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #456 on: August 01, 2012, 05:32:35 AM »
The crazy thing is that the appointment of Rodgers is a sound one if there's a DoF.

great posts above, from you and Tes.

pretty much agree with all the points made.

the one thing I didn't agree on, was the above point, Ed.

I would never have a director of football about the place.    They never work in British football. 

And if we had brought in Van Gaal, this summer as DoF,  the writing would have been on the wall from day one.  Van Gaal, one imagines, would have been angling for a job in the dugout.     The politics would have been fierce and divisive for the club.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #457 on: August 01, 2012, 05:50:43 AM »
I'd probably call off the attack dogs  :D can't vouch for the Dude though (sometimes he can be awful stubborn
about things...don't think he liked the second coming of that Dalglish fella   ;D )

 :D     I called Dalglish out before his appointment (as did a few others here).  And after 5 or 6 games of the season, I knew for sure that we were done for.   A bloke hopelessly out of his depth.  If it had been a boxing match, his trainer would have thrown in the towel after the first round.

Making that 180 page document public shows a lack of understanding of what is expected at a top club. Why mention it unless it was a spot of self promotion. And therefore, why feel the need for self promotion?
Or is it self justification?

By telling us all how he's this and that, will do this, believes in that etc, he's setting himself up for a fall.

He's had so little time to prepare for the start of our season on Thursday.........I'm surprised he's had any time to talk as much as he has.

I will go on the record and say that I think Rodgers is nowhere near good enough, to manage at a top club. 

He has won the grand total of 13 games in the premiership. 

Those involved in his appointment are rank amateurs.  They have nothing to offer the club, on the pitch.

The club, overall, is being down-sized.  Perhaps it is being fattened up for market, I have no idea.  Or perhaps our american owners believe that success is template-driven and they have some master plan for achieving it on the cheap. 

I have never known the club to be so weak across it's entire management, coaching, scouting or player resources.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Gurdeep

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Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #458 on: August 01, 2012, 09:07:11 AM »
:D     I called Dalglish out before his appointment (as did a few others here).  And after 5 or 6 games of the season, I knew for sure that we were done for.   A bloke hopelessly out of his depth.  If it had been a boxing match, his trainer would have thrown in the towel after the first round.

Yep, I remember that like it was yesterday. 

At the time I felt Dalglish was the right appointment, but that line of thought was based on previous glories when I was a wee whipper snapper and viewed football through the eyes of a kid.  You were 100% spot on Dude with your analysis and I fear you will be correct again in regards to Brenda. 

It's only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realize that there is always a way to solve a problem without using violence.!

Offline barticus

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #459 on: August 01, 2012, 11:52:20 AM »
Or perhaps our american owners believe that success is template-driven and they have some master plan for achieving it on the cheap. 


Yup...i think it's fairly obvious now that they want to do it on the cheap. If that brings down the debt and makes us more attractive to investors then maybe that's the reason...it's early days with Rodgers and thursday will see if actions back up his many words...
if they don't then there is an obvious candidate waiting in the wings who can do things on the cheap and can bring in tactical guile and as long as he's free from a job then we have at least have a plan b...

the coming months are some of the most important in the clubs history...thursday will show us if there is light at the end of the tunnel or not...

Offline Ed

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #460 on: August 01, 2012, 12:40:23 PM »
I will go on the record and say that I think Rodgers is nowhere near good enough, to manage at a top club. 
Lol, to quote Al Capone in the Untouchables imo he's:

"A lot of talk and a coaching badge"  :D


Offline Juan

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #461 on: August 01, 2012, 04:54:28 PM »
I see Pacheco has been left out of the Europa league squad.

Its great to see that Rodgers has given every player a fresh start at the club, that players wont be judged on where they are from but more so on what they offer and how good they play. What a load of b*llocks.

Its already the same old sh*t as last year. If Rodgers were picking players based on performance then Pacheco would have been in that squad. He was one of the few attacking positives from the North American tour. We're back to the same old politics, leave a technically good player out so we can bring rubbish like Spearing who will never be good enough.

Im so sick of being conned into believing that this club is moving forward. Its the same sh*t with just somebody else in charge. At least Kenny had the balls to move Carragher towards the door. Rodgers is already integrating him back in as an integral part of the squad. We will never compete for fourth (never mind speak of title challenges) with technically poor players like Spearing playing or over the hill players like Carragher still being considered integral.

This was the first opportunity for Rodgers to back up his claim that he wasnt just after short term results and he was patiently building for the future. We're playing FC f**king Gomel. With Suarez and Bellamy out, with Kuyt and Maxi gone, with Downing showing no form whatsoever if I were the likes of Pacheco Id realise the writings on the wall and that it would probably be best to move on to a club that would choose you based on performance and ability over where your from.

Sick to death at the way this club is run.

Apologies rant over.

By the way heres Pachecos tweet at being left out, model professional as always;

"unfortunately I'm not involved for the match on Thursday. I will keep working. Always. One day it will come"

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #462 on: August 01, 2012, 05:09:56 PM »
Lol, to quote Al Capone in the Untouchables imo he's:

"A lot of talk and a coaching badge"  :D

 :D

when someone mentions badges, I keep thinking of the non-requirement for displaying any stinking badges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=VI6KvXmytUs
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #463 on: August 01, 2012, 05:14:05 PM »
Yup...i think it's fairly obvious now that they want to do it on the cheap. If that brings down the debt and makes us more attractive to investors then maybe that's the reason...it's early days with Rodgers and thursday will see if actions back up his many words...
if they don't then there is an obvious candidate waiting in the wings who can do things on the cheap and can bring in tactical guile and as long as he's free from a job then we have at least have a plan b...

the coming months are some of the most important in the clubs history...thursday will show us if there is light at the end of the tunnel or not...

yes, barticus, Thursday is where all the talk has to stop and the walk begins.

we have shipped out our best technical players, in the past 18 months, and replaced them with much lesser quality.

the golden days are over.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #464 on: August 01, 2012, 05:56:13 PM »
:D

when someone mentions badges, I keep thinking of the non-requirement for displaying any stinking badges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=VI6KvXmytUs
The great Alfonso Bedoya   ;D

Always reminds me of that time Masch got sent off against United  ;D:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=abYVMftzTjE#t=1m50s