December 07, 2019, 06:20:40 AM

Author Topic: Summer Transfer Window  (Read 122829 times)

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #525 on: August 08, 2012, 03:58:05 PM »
Plus it invites serious pressure unless it's complemented by serious ball playing skills
(not just launching it upfield) to get the ball out of danger areas quickly and with
precision.

 agreed, Ed.  It does invite danger.  The ball has to make it's way forward.  Unless one is windoing down the clock, there is no great advantage to endlessly knocking it around the back four.
 
 
I don't think Rodgers will see out his contract at Anfield Dude.  This ship is too big for him to steer, we need/needed an experienced hand at the wheel!
 

 totally agree, Gurdeep.
 
 rodgers and the owners foolishly believe that they have 2 or 3 years to make their experiment work.  I have news for them.  If by Christmas we are mid-table, then the calls for Rodgers to go by March/April will be deafening.
 
 to be honest, by this point, I want the yanks to leave.  It has been one bad decision after another. 
 
 We deserve much better, than their arrogant half-hearted part-time pursuit of their overseas pet-project. 
 
 Liverpool Football Club is far bigger than that and deserves much more focus and specialised people.
 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Juan

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 2366
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #526 on: August 08, 2012, 04:09:04 PM »
That's similar to what I've noted from the bits and pieces I've seen and as an LFC
supporter it drives me nuts. I simply can't watch it, the ball going back to the keeper
all the time (it's anathema to Hansen of old) and just winding down the clock.

Plus it invites serious pressure unless it's complemented by serious ball playing skills
(not just launching it upfield) to get the ball out of danger areas quickly and with
precision.

Last week in europe we played it back and forth across the back. The opposition pressed, especially on carragher, the ball was forced back to jones who launched it and we had relinquished possession. Now thats very different than the football played by barca and spain who are supposedly the blueprint for where we are trying to go. They look to pass it passed players and go forward. Theres none of this keeping possession for possessions sake.

Dont get me wrong it was our first game, we cant expect miracles but im surprised by some of the players who are already heavily involved since rodgers took over because they dont seem to be capable of playing the type of football rodgers want yet hes letting go our technically better stars. To lose bellamy,maxi and kuyt for next to nothing is daft when you cant afford to sign anyone technically as good.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #527 on: August 08, 2012, 04:37:45 PM »
Now thats very different than the football played by barca and spain who are supposedly the blueprint for where we are trying to go.

The pass is played in such a way that the receiving player's first touch is the next pass in the sequence.

The ball is not played to or into feet but for feet. It's played so that the recipient moves onto the pass. It's harder to tackle a moving player than a stationary one.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #528 on: August 08, 2012, 04:42:45 PM »

 agreed, Ed.  It does invite danger.  The ball has to make it's way forward.  Unless one is windoing down the clock, there is no great advantage to endlessly knocking it around the back four.
 
 
 totally agree, Gurdeep.
 
 rodgers and the owners foolishly believe that they have 2 or 3 years to make their experiment work.  I have news for them.  If by Christmas we are mid-table, then the calls for Rodgers to go by March/April will be deafening.
 
 to be honest, by this point, I want the yanks to leave.  It has been one bad decision after another. 
 
 We deserve much better, than their arrogant half-hearted part-time pursuit of their overseas pet-project. 
 
 Liverpool Football Club is far bigger than that and deserves much more focus and specialised people.

Isn't sad? We all looked at our situation, factored in the dawning of FFP, and realised time is short and experience (more than ever) is now needed. We've all been able to make that call, so why haven't FSG? Have they taken advice? Then ignored it? Or made the judgement themselves?

I can't believe a Parry or a Dein or any experienced football administrator would have advised the route we've taken, or with who we've taken it.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #529 on: August 08, 2012, 05:08:39 PM »
Last week in europe we played it back and forth across the back. The opposition pressed, especially on carragher, the ball was forced back to jones who launched it and we had relinquished possession. Now thats very different than the football played by barca and spain who are supposedly the blueprint for where we are trying to go. They look to pass it passed players and go forward. Theres none of this keeping possession for possessions sake.

Dont get me wrong it was our first game, we cant expect miracles but im surprised by some of the players who are already heavily involved since rodgers took over because they dont seem to be capable of playing the type of football rodgers want yet hes letting go our technically better stars. To lose bellamy,maxi and kuyt for next to nothing is daft when you cant afford to sign anyone technically as good.
I missed the Europa league game (wasn't up for it), in fact i stopped watching us at half-time against Spurs, although
i intend to catch the Anfield game vs Gomel.

Worse still, imo, is if you take Lucas out of the equation and stick Spearing in there the whole system breaks down
because Spearing is a single point of failure guaranteed almost every game to send a stray pass in a dangerous
area and that's without the opposition deliberately targeting what'll be the focal point of the system.

Additionally, i have grave reservations about cashing in on one of our experienced centre halves this season if they're
going to be much more active in terms of possession than is the norm.

Midfield was the problem last season and I'm very open to us exerting far more control in that area this season with a
physical and energetic approach to winning back possession and drawing all the pretty triangles that God created to
retaining it.

However again alarm bells begin to ring when a manager and his system is so inflexible that we have to shell out an
exorbitant fee for a player (Allen) who may be promising but has achieved nowt in the game to date. Granted we paid too
much for Henderson last Summer but at least in his defence he has an incredible engine that is difficult to come by whereas
pretty passers in midfield are a dime a dozen on the continent. Besides, just like Ramsey and Wilshere these fly-weight
midfielders can easily get injured so i'd question the wisdom of shelling out the guts of our transfer spend on them.

Certainly, I'm in favour of us getting the midfield right and would prefer a more phased introduction of any defensive
system. Build on the progress there from last season and coach the bejaysus out of that Enrique lad because he's
a headless chicken when he gets past the midfield line and ventures forward too much with little end product leaving
gaps at the back.


Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #530 on: August 08, 2012, 05:25:09 PM »
Isn't sad? We all looked at our situation, factored in the dawning of FFP, and realised time is short and experience (more than ever) is now needed. We've all been able to make that call, so why haven't FSG? Have they taken advice? Then ignored it? Or made the judgement themselves?

I can't believe a Parry or a Dein or any experienced football administrator would have advised the route we've taken, or with who we've taken it.

nor me either.  I cannot believe that a dein or a parry type has been advising them.  I am unsure how much Ayre's input is asked for, or listened to (not that it has much value anyway imho).

can you imagine, if it emerges (at some later date in an interview or book), that they had no advice, but acted on their own gut instincts.     

my best bet is that it is arrogance - the other possibility is stupidity....but these are top business people, they are not stupid.

it has to be arrogance and a carefree approach to a distant overseas pet project.



In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #531 on: August 08, 2012, 05:31:10 PM »
it was our first game, we cant expect miracles but im surprised by some of the players who are already heavily involved since rodgers took over because they dont seem to be capable of playing the type of football rodgers want yet hes letting go our technically better stars. To lose bellamy,maxi and kuyt for next to nothing is daft when you cant afford to sign anyone technically as good.

absolutely, Juan.

it makes no sense at all.......if you are going to play pass and move football, you need the most highly technical players that you can get your hands on.

but we are selling all those types of players.

the whole thing is barmy.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #532 on: August 08, 2012, 06:58:33 PM »
Bad news, Jovanovic is back: http://www.espn.co.uk/espn/sport/video_audio/164277.html?CMP=OTC-RSS;genre=1;sport=3

0:24 AND 1:44 of the video.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #533 on: August 08, 2012, 08:38:54 PM »
If we do sacrifice Agger then we should look at Papadopoulos or Howedes, both of Schalke. Afterall, we still need to find Carragher's replacement, or whether Coates can cut it.

I'll cry if our plan is to trust Wilson or Kelly (who hasn't played a single first team game as a centre half).
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #534 on: August 08, 2012, 10:44:29 PM »
If we do sacrifice Agger then we should look at Papadopoulos or Howedes, both of Schalke. Afterall, we still need to find Carragher's replacement, or whether Coates can cut it.

I'll cry if our plan is to trust Wilson or Kelly (who hasn't played a single first team game as a centre half).
Dunno, I mean Alonso, Macsherano, Torres...Agger.

Are we entitled to speak about top 4, if that's our attitude. What's our secret weapon? Why weaken
ourselves? It's not just losing Agger, it's breaking up a solid defensive partnership with Skrtel, starting
from scratch in terms of building an understanding.

Our big weakness last season was midfield, surely to move forward the priority is strengthening our
midfield options so that we can control games (my personal theory is that we need physicality (speed
and strength) in that area to control games away from home against crap opposition). Adam, Spearing,
Cole aren't the sort of player we can rely on to be consistent for a 38 game season.

There is a possibility, given time (and a set of weights  :) ), that this lad Allen could complete a nice triangle in
the centre with Lucas & Henderson. That's only a possibility though. Tbh, we're still waiting to see if Henderson
can make the grade in the centre this season. In the meantime, I see no reason whatsoever that he should just
waltz into the Liverpool first 11. None!

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #535 on: August 08, 2012, 10:57:12 PM »
The midfield is definately a case of quantity over quality.

How we address that without a clearing of the decks, I don't know. How we do it before the window shuts, I've no idea. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #536 on: August 09, 2012, 12:17:18 AM »
maybe this time next year, we will be trying to clear the decks of allen (and dempsey, and borini).

just in the same way, we need to be looking to move adam on.....and maybe even henderson (if he does not make the grade this season)

in the past, you just knew people like torres, alonso, mascherano etc would be good signings for the club.

but in modern times, we are signing fluff.    Like I mean, are City, United, or Barca interested in allen, dempsey or borini?
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #537 on: August 09, 2012, 12:42:47 AM »
Like I mean, are City, United, or Barca interested in allen, dempsey or borini?
I just see them as squad players. Is the bar that low at LFC that players of that ilk
can now walk into the first 11.

It reminds me of Benayoun (was it £5 million we paid for him?) for arguments sake, he's our
Dempsey, who i think was a great signing and always did his best, but was shy of having
enough quality to be 1st 11 at a club with ambitions of top 4 and ultimately i think that was
one of the factors behind him leaving. Then there's Borini (Ngog? £1.5 million).

Obviously the manager has to make his own decisions with regard to personnel but we appear
to be spending more than £30 million on squad players...wtf?

It's precisely as you say dude, what happens next Summer? Is there resale value in any of these
players? Do they see out their 4 year contracts at LFC?

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #538 on: August 09, 2012, 12:53:50 AM »
exactly, Ed.

and remember, rodgers has zero knowledge of competing at the very top........he has no idea of the type of player needed to compete at the highest level.

we cannot afford more fluff at the club........we are up to our ears in expensive mediocre players.

but look at  what our gobsh.ite is saying today about Agger.

Quote
Daniel and I have had a number of conversations so he knows where I am at, he knows where the club are at and he doesn’t want to leave, which is great. In my first conversation with him at the Euros he made that quite clear.   He loves the club, loves the fans, so that was music to my ears — but we’ll see.”

agger is one of our top players.....agger does not want to leave anfield....indeed, agger does not want to join another english club.......and yet our moron wants to sell him, in order to have cash to bring in tripe like dempsey, allen and borini.  And he also wants city's adam johnson on loan......for johnson, think downing.......I wouldn;t have him about the place.  Moronic.  Truly moronic.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Summer Transfer Window
« Reply #539 on: August 09, 2012, 12:59:19 AM »
Look at the fees Arsenal paid for their trio, Chelsea for Marin, Bayern for Shaqiri etc.

Why Joe Allen for £15M? Surely there is better value out there that isn't British and doesn't come from an overcharging British club.

We've known all Summer how to get Allen but we've not cleared out space in the squad for another central midfielder. Spearing, Adam and Cole should have left in addition to Aquilani.

We need at least another striker and at least two, if not three wide forward players.

Kuyt, Bellamy, Maxi. Two strikers, three wide forward players - a minimum of two need replacing and not downgrading in the process.

I hope we've started scouting centre halves. If either of Agger or Skrtel leave or either don't sign a new contract this Summer, we have to start scouting their replacements in addition to Cara's. If either one doesn't play in a league match then Coates must be played, likewise given the EL games also.
Try Kelly or Wilson (though I have serious doubts about him) in the FA and League Cup. Kelly needs first class football at centre half as he's never played there for the first team. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.