Season 2012-2013

[Martinmarx]

Also, I think it's beneath the dignity of Liverpool fans to use condescending and belittling names for our manager. I really don't see the point in it, unless you want to hurt and damage the club.

[Ed]

Thought Dowd was generous to West Brom (most of it was to the letter
of the law though, interpreted perhaps in a somewhat strict fashion but
generally correct). Anyway, away from home I expect the team to get on
with it and not fall apart in such shocking fashion. No fight whatsoever for
the 3 points after the sending off. Worse still no re-organisation or regrouping.
Just terrible!

I think West Brom were a credit to their new manager, full of spirit and
an honesty of effort in the final third (sure there was some cynical stuff from
the centre halves but it's a game for men).

I could lay into the team but we could be in deep doo doo given the next 4 fixtures
so I'm keeping schtum...

[the dude abides]

I hope that fat cad Dowd dies in cancer. Two non penos and a non-existant sending-off won it for cad-Clarke. You could also say they had two men off-side in the first situation on their third, whereas we were wrongfully called off-side in open play in the first half. They'll get relegated, we won't so fork you Clarke you worthless cad.

Other than that we were weak (as per usual) in the last third. It's early days for the team but until the wrongful sending off we were the only footballing team on the pitch. They got a very very flattering scoreline.

How you naive Rafa lovers dare to make this bold and negative reactions based on one game is beyond me. You just won't rest til you get your  Spanish bitch back, will you?

think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHXK2t50S-8

[barticus]

Not many positives but considering we have Citeh, Arsenal and Manure in the next 4 we'll have to up our game considerably...in many ways they're the perfect introduction for Rodgers which will test him to the utmost...we'll know in the next 4 if he can turn the team around... especially as we'll have no agger...

On the positive side we were showing signs of promise until Agger got sent off...perhaps this game highlights the absolute need to keep Agger and that it finally stops any more nonsense about selling him...
if anything this game with the pace (or lack of it) of the carra/skrtel partnertship shows that we desperately need another centre back as cover...

I thought Joe Allen played pretty well considering it was his first game and only just signed, Glen Johnson and Suarez were also pretty sound...

Pretty sure taking off Lucas for Joe Cole will never be repeated...

Agree with the panel that Suarez should not be played as the main striker...but just behind...what that means for Gerrard, who was pretty woeful today, is anyone's guess...on the right maybe...

Raheem Sterling not on the bench? Bet he will be for the next game...should be playing..

You could say we were unlucky with the decisions...but confidence makes your own luck...or bad decisions should bring extra effort at the injustice of it all...

The next 4 games will be fascinating and will be a microcosm of our season...always interesting...and will no doubt be frustrating in equal measure...

[Martinmarx]

think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHXK2t50S-8

My apologies, Dude. If I was able to edit my post I'd do it. Harsh words on Dowd which I regret but it seems as tho he and Atkinson deffo have this Liverpool issue. Had a crayfish party on the street outside so wasn't able to see the game until it was late and I was really pissed. So again, my apologies to anyone who got offended by my post. I'll hang in shame.

As I said above  I really think we were poor in the final third and Suarez is struggling to get easy goals. I really thought we were the only team on the pitch until sending-off. I'm not surprised at all we collapsed with 10 men. Here we are with 2-3 new players settling into a side which is settling in to a new way of playing footy with 11 men on the field. No wonder they didn't come through doing it with 10.

I think there were a lot of positives to take from this game. It's obvious we'll come good sooner or later. We look to play a mobile passing game. We struggle to win the ball back quickly but that will come in time.

It was good to see Lucas get his first competetive game in almost 10 months. Gerrard I think was quite poor whereas Allen was Sublime. What a debut! I like that fella.

Other than that I think Agger proved once and for all why selling him would be a very stupid idea. It's hard to lose him for 3 games but that's Dowd the horrible cad for you. Calling a peno being that far from the situation is bad enough, going for a professional ... Worst of all I don't think we stand a chance of winning an appeal. So it'll be an extremly unlucky start to the season for Brendan.

 



 

[Tes]

How you naive Rafa lovers dare to make this bold and negative reactions based on one game is beyond me. You just won't rest til you get your  Spanish bitch back, will you?

Plural? Who's asking for Rafa back, Martin?

[Tes]

Agger's out for 1 game. A straight red for violent conduct is 3, but Agger was sent off for preventing a goalscoring opportunity which is only 1 despite it being a straight red.

Still it's one game too many when we're facing Tevez, Aguero and Balotelli.

[Tes]

Also, I think it's beneath the dignity of Liverpool fans to use condescending and belittling names for our manager. I really don't see the point in it, unless you want to hurt and damage the club.

Martin, it comes from the same place as your tirade against Dowd, frustration.

[Martinmarx]

Martin, it comes from the same place as your tirade against Dowd, frustration.

After one (1) game? As Brendan said, there will be highs and lows throughout the season. What's important for me tho, is that for the first time in many years I really thought we looked like a side wanting something with its footy. Under Rafa it wasn't as much what the players wanted as his robot-like regime demanded which eventually drained the players of confidence, weness, composure and ability to win games. I don't know how it'll pan out. I still have the feeling it won't take that long for the team to overtake Brendan's ideas altho results may not come as quickly, and more so, consistently as many of us would hope for. I'm frustrated the first defeat came this soon but now that it's overwith with, let's move on and take on City. It's probably better to play them now than in 3 months time.

Thanks for the info re. Agger's sending off. Thought a straight red always rendered a 3 game ban.

[Tes]

Also, I think it's beneath the dignity of Liverpool fans to use condescending and belittling names for our manager. I really don't see the point in it, unless you want to hurt and damage the club.

Martin, Dude and I are of very similar ages and grew up in a time before the eighties changed everything. We're not interested in image but substance. We judge the book once we've read it.
Words are of little interest, it's actions that count. We're not the sort to be easily impressed and it's the club we're interested in, not any individual within the structure. Again, we didn't grow up in a time of celebrity, where that label gets applied far too easily and too losely.

Our club has been in a period of rapid decline and therefore we look at experience not potential as the way to halt that decline. We look for for someone with a proven record of success as it shows they have the knowledge required, and whilst any appointment carries a degree of risk, we see appointing an experience man as a way of minimising the risk. The time to appoint a younger man with potential is when the club has re-established itself in the top four and their is a solid base already in place for the novice to build on.

Rodgers may have been coaching in various capacities for 20 years, but being part of a coaching structure where you have limit responsibilities and are responsible for one part within the club as opposed to the whole thing is very different.
Football is littered with coaches and assistants who were revered for their ability as a coach or assistant but when they became the top man it all went wrong - Peter Taylor (Clough), Brian Kidd (Taggart, and now Mancini), Ray Harford (Dalglish at Blackburn) and to a lesser extent Roy Evans (manager of our all conquering reserves).

Rodgers longest managerial post is the two years at Swansea, Watford and Reading not working out too well for him. The irony is that Swansea may just have appointed a step up in Laudrup, who has a much longer managerial career than Rodgers. Also, Rodgers had good foundations to build on at Swansea, he didn't start from scratch and build them into the team we saw last season.

So not only is he starting from scratch with us, it is one of the toughest jobs their is in British football, maybe second only to the England job and in the context of our last three seasons and the less than stella running of the club over the last 20 years, it's become  even harder.

It would be a tough job for the most experienced of managers, the likes of Wenger and Taggart (from 10 years ago) would find it difficult, even with the experience they have to draw on. Insight and intelligence can get you so far, but experience and the knowledge gained through it, both good and bad, can not be beaten or worked around.

Rodgers is obviously a deep thinker, he's immersed himself in the game to a level a lot of other younger coaches haven't, but the thing he lacks over the likes of Ancelotti, is that he has no track record to prove that his theories actually translate in practice, and have been proven to work over a number of years.

[Tes]

After one (1) game? As Brendan said, there will be highs and lows throughout the season. What's important for me tho, is that for the first time in many years I really thought we looked like a side wanting something with its footy. Under Rafa it wasn't as much what the players wanted as his robot-like regime demanded which eventually drained the players of confidence, weness, composure and ability to win games. I don't know how it'll pan out. I still have the feeling it won't take that long for the team to overtake Brendan's ideas altho results may not come as quickly, and more so, consistently as many of us would hope for. I'm frustrated the first defeat came this soon but now that it's overwith with, let's move on and take on City. It's probably better to play them now than in 3 months time.

Thanks for the info re. Agger's sending off. Thought a straight red always rendered a 3 game ban.

Rafa's methods work well in Spain, but didn't translate as well over here. I also think he lost something when he lost Pako, but he also had to spend too much time fighting against the owners and the likes of Purslow. Rafa's a good example of the fact that methods working well in one enviroment don't always translate well into another.

Nobody (I'm certain) actively wants Rodgers to fail. He fails, we fail and we simply can't afford to fall any further behind the likes of Chelsea, the Manchester clubs, Arsenal and Spurs. Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs, may actually end up coming backwards towards us for differing reasons, but we need to take advantage of that if/when it happens.

All we have is hope, and hope based on nothing that gives us solid reasons for hope. We're now out over the canyon with no safety net of proven experience and track record.
All we can do is hope that yesterday is a blip, an occassional happening that does take place when you attempt to make seismic changes (I agree with Rodgers on the theory that those things happen in that situation) and hope we can bounce back against City and before that against Hearts, and the Hearts game being very similar to the WBA one, in the fact that we are away against a team (that on paper) are a lower quality opposition than ourselves.

The biggest disappointment about yesterday was the mental side, the way we just fell apart after Agger's sending off. We've gone down to 10 men before, it happens, but to implode like that shows a worrying side to the team we've not really seen before. And the substitutions and re-organisation was worrying.

Look at the back three that were left. We could have gone to a back three, moved Downing over to the left and Gerrard to the right, fortifying the midfield as much as possible, not weakening it by replacing  Lucas with Joe Cole (what he was even doing on the bench is an argument for another day) and played Suarez off Borini, utilising Suarez's work rate to almost make a fifth midfielder when we didn't have the ball.

Hopefully, and I really am hoping, as is everyone (I'd imagine) that yesterday were justing teething troubles and a day where everything just went against us, all rolled into one and we won't see the like of again very often this season and that we build on the second leg against Gomel and the bulk of the performance against Leverkusen and take things forward starting with a good performance and a couple of goals against Hearts. 

[the dude abides]

My apologies, Dude. If I was able to edit my post I'd do it. Harsh words on Dowd which I regret but it seems as tho he and Atkinson deffo have this Liverpool issue. Had a crayfish party on the street outside so wasn't able to see the game until it was late and I was really pissed. So again, my apologies to anyone who got offended by my post. I'll hang in shame.

As I said above  I really think we were poor in the final third and Suarez is struggling to get easy goals. I really thought we were the only team on the pitch until sending-off. I'm not surprised at all we collapsed with 10 men. Here we are with 2-3 new players settling into a side which is settling in to a new way of playing footy with 11 men on the field. No wonder they didn't come through doing it with 10.

I think there were a lot of positives to take from this game. It's obvious we'll come good sooner or later. We look to play a mobile passing game. We struggle to win the ball back quickly but that will come in time.

It was good to see Lucas get his first competetive game in almost 10 months. Gerrard I think was quite poor whereas Allen was Sublime. What a debut! I like that fella.

Other than that I think Agger proved once and for all why selling him would be a very stupid idea. It's hard to lose him for 3 games but that's Dowd the horrible cad for you. Calling a peno being that far from the situation is bad enough, going for a professional ... Worst of all I don't think we stand a chance of winning an appeal. So it'll be an extremly unlucky start to the season for Brendan.

no worries, Martin.  I knew (from your post) that you had had a few beers and had posted very late.  I have done the same thing myself plenty of times, over the past 20 years.  You should see some of my wine inspired posts in usenet!   

our manager now faces a massive three months.  I fear for the club.  I hope this (yesterday) was early teething troubles and not a sign of what lies ahead. 

even when down to 10 men, WBA should not be ripping us apart.  They were slicing us open at will.  Very bad organisation after the sending off.

[the dude abides]

two very good posts above, Tes.

I am on the way out here, so do not have much time to offer detailed replies.

We hope yesterday was mere teething problems.

Our next run of games is going to be a major test.  I hope our manager can sort things out.   We will quickly find out.  The best way to assess an individual, is to watch how they perform when under the cosh.  Our boss didn;t impress yesterday, in a second half, where he had to react to falling behind (and then losing a player).

 

[Ed]

They have arrogantly treated their UK-based investment as a pet-project....

I noted in the commentary a reference to how Steve Clarke was sacked,
apparently "The girl from Human Resources rang him". Geeesus!

I also wonder about how the Pep Segura situation was handled. Those eve of
new season departures are generally bitter. Surprised the Beeb didn't ask the
gaffer about it i.e. "Can you tell us anything about the departure of Segura?"
Whatever about the merits of Mike Marsh (?), Segura leaving strips away another
piece of continuity for the club. Judging from this he was heavily involved with the
strategic end of things:

http://www.aliverpoolthing.com/2011/07/pep-segura-explains-strategy-behind.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ALiverpoolThing+%28A+Liverpool+Thing

Our owners love that word stability, I'm seriously beginning to wonder...

[Juan]

Can we afford to be looking for yet another manager after one season? It's only the first game but if this is a taste to come we'll have little choice, especially if we miss out on any type of European football. But then we'd still have the same people choosing the next man as chose Dalglish and Rodgers.

Rodgers has to be given seasons to see if he can do anything with the club. Yesterday was much more to do with the decline and mismanagement of the club than it was necessarily about tactics and poor managerial decisions.

As a group of players this teams time together looks passed its best. There is a stale feel about the squad. We have underperformed for seasons now yet the make up of the team is still the same all be it with average players being added every window. Thats not to criticise the new players, they need to bed in and attempt to hit the ground running but it would be unfair to judge them on yesterday.

Its sad to watch but the decline has accelerated right in front of our eyes. Records are being broken at Liverpool each year but all of the wrong ones. Its being 70 years since we suffered an opening day result as bad as yesterday. Poor player purchasing doesnt help. Last years transfers have officially failed to deliver and in spectacular fashion so we are back to relying on what was already there plus our two new additions this summer.

Too many continually under-performing players have survived when managers have been culled.