August 06, 2020, 02:29:18 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 372399 times)

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2340 on: April 12, 2013, 01:26:49 AM »
It's hard to believe he actually went and said it, isn't it?

He makes us sound like Bolton or Stoke, just happy to have a 'European adventure for the season'.

So we've gone from 2nd, top four, finishing as high as possible, to now missing out on Europe is no big deal.

Big clubs juggle multiple competitions, including European football, and relish it.

It seems since Bendan Martin left this forum, unable to convince us of his worthiness to be LFC manager, he's just given up the ghost.

I realise Vicarage Road, the Majeski, The Vetch Field/Liberty Stadium aren't used to it, but this is Anfield, where big nights are woven into the fabric and history of European competition.

Get your money on us for next season's Liverpool Senior Cup and an open top minibus parade up and down Anfield Road.
Agree,

this is precisely the type of BS that gets bandied about by knowledgeable
bloggers and ex-pros.

I take a different view and it's precisely as you say Tes. Effectively we're indulging
a lack of European football so that, let's face it, we can attempt to qualify for the
same frickin' tournament (Europa League) next season?? Where all of a sudden
such an achievement, mark my words, will be hailed as success and a step forward.

The focus should be on this season and the 5 points recently and inexplicably dropped
against West Ham & Southampton, but no, we seem to inhabit a strange world... it's as
if we're sitting stationary in a mocked up train carraige on a film set with a projection screen
of the world going by substituting for a window to give the illusion of movement. Rodgers is
there saying, "see we're on a journey", but the reality is we're going nowhere except
back to where we started (two cup finals and qualification for Europa league)  ::)

Who's this Martin guy you mention?  ;D

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2341 on: April 12, 2013, 06:53:26 AM »
our 39 year old boss, think's he is so smart, in writing the narrative - whether it be for what the club is about, his expectations for what the club can achieve, the new direction he claims the owners took by not rehiring Rafa, the personal politics he displayed re Thatcher.

Rodgers is acting way above his station.

He thinks that he is being smart, instead, he is being extremely naive.

Major business men look at the bottom line, and can be ruthless when they want to be.

This youngster in the dugout seems to have a view on just about everything.  And he is determined, come hell or high water, to share these views with all and sundry.

Like in many cases, come the very end times, such people often talk themselves out of jobs.  Rodgers is talking way too much these days, for his own good.  The talk about being better off not being in Europe next season, will not have gone down well in Boston.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

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Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2342 on: April 12, 2013, 01:30:21 PM »
our 39 year old boss, think's he is so smart, in writing the narrative - whether it be for what the club is about, his expectations for what the club can achieve, the new direction he claims the owners took by not rehiring Rafa, the personal politics he displayed re Thatcher.

Rodgers is acting way above his station.

He thinks that he is being smart, instead, he is being extremely naive.

Major business men look at the bottom line, and can be ruthless when they want to be.

This youngster in the dugout seems to have a view on just about everything.  And he is determined, come hell or high water, to share these views with all and sundry.

Like in many cases, come the very end times, such people often talk themselves out of jobs.  Rodgers is talking way too much these days, for his own good.  The talk about being better off not being in Europe next season, will not have gone down well in Boston.

Let's face it...we were linked with two figures last season...martinez and brentan rodgers...if you choose managers who manage mid level teams...then guess what you become in the end?

No aspirations for getting into europe...out of the cups early so we can 'concentrate' on the league...and when that doesn't come up to scratch...then it's everybody elses fault...
I see all these Liverpool players who are happy that they're 'progressing'...
like defender Johnson who can't defend for shine-a-light but is happy in the team...
like Gerrard and Carra enjoying a new friend as manager, one who will never tell them uncomfortable truths, but will always be a pal...
Since when the feck has a manager ever wanted to be a pal?
Rodgers is star struck and can't believe his luck...
Of course he'll spout positive affirmations..cos if we were all in the same situation of a dream job, wouldn't we???

We used to be a top club who was world famous...
We used to have a name that would send shivers througout Europe...

We are not that now...

We are in the Kingdom of the blind, where the one eyed man is king...
We are in Wonderland where going backwards is going forwards and being out of Europe is being able to challenge to get into Europe...
Frankly, under Brentan Rodgers...we are a joke...

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2343 on: April 12, 2013, 02:31:16 PM »
We are in the Kingdom of the blind, where the one eyed man is king...
We are in Wonderland where going backwards is going forwards and being out of Europe is being able to challenge to get into Europe...

well said.

and some journalist worth his salt, needs to ask Brent, why with no distractions from Europe next season, to affect our supposed push for the top four, why it would be any different from this present season (when we were out of all the other competitions early).

yes, Glenda Johnston, and his colleagues, are big mates with Brent and in a comfort zone.  Of course Glenda likes Brent, and vice versa.  It's like a soft teacher, all the kids love him.  And at the other end of the spectrum, they get nervous and have to be on their best behaviour, when they have a hard task master in charge, like Rafa Benitez.    Even when winning on the biggest nights in Europe, Rafa was to be found taking players aside at the end of the game, and instructing them on one or two things that could be improved about their performance.   The small details are exceptionally important.  As is trying to constantly improve.

But Brent, and his colleagues, are in their comfort zone.  Well paid, and under-performing.  But hey, if they all mutually pat each other on the back enough, Joe Public will never be none the wiser.  Right?

As you say, we took a mid table manager (maybe even a mere one-season mid-table wonder) and hey-presto, we now have a mid-table team. 

FSG should leave, along with Rodgers.  They are not good for the club.  And that link that Tes posted above, in the Mail today, for the first time shows the depth of feeling against Rodgers (in the comments section).   That was an eye opener.   So many people have now seen through him.  And the comments about Europe next season, finally seem to have caused many people to have snapped. 

Rodgers needs to be shown the door next month.  And I would not be sad to see FSG leave too.  Pam Ayres is another one, that needs to be moved.  In his case, if he accepts it, a move sideways would suffice.

We need considerable change this summer.  I fear we will see none.  But I do think the notion that Rodgers will *definitely* get a second season, is possibly overplayed.  John Henry sacked Kenny, the King of Anfield.   The kid, Rodgers, will be a lot easier to dismiss. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 02:33:46 PM by the dude abides »
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2344 on: April 14, 2013, 10:46:36 PM »
We need considerable change this summer.  I fear we will see none.  But I do think the notion that Rodgers will *definitely* get a second season, is possibly overplayed.  John Henry sacked Kenny, the King of Anfield.   The kid, Rodgers, will be a lot easier to dismiss.

I think it's really hard to tell which way this is going to go. As I said last week it's not 'cut and dried' that he's 'their man' so is bomb proof in a way Dalglish, who is always written up as not being their man, despite a three year contract. Then again they may see it entirely the opposite way.
They've swung back and forth with a lot of their decision making.

DoF was the way to go, appoint one, sack one, then it was a committee of sorts, now we're back to the manager, the coach/DoF axis seemingly discarded.
Throw money at it for two windows, then no money last January when Dalglish desperately needed a goalscorer, to more cautious in the Summer, slacken the purse strings in January '12 compared to January '11, so which way will it swing this Summer with only a one place improvement, slight improvement in points, no European football and no trophies?
They've tried the old experienced head, ex-manager, club legend, now they've tried the other extreme, the young totally inexperienced man. Will they stick or twist again?

It's very hard to see what they'll do. A trophy, another final and European football was judged not enough to make up for 8th place, will 7th, without the other baubles but with a handful more points and goals scored be sufficient?   

I don't see it as being clear cut either way and they've changed position so many times already it's hard to know what the latest view is.

Whatever happens, we need some experience and in-depth knowledge bringing in during the Summer, be it manager, MD, owners, whoever. We can't continue to drift as we are doing. It feels like everyone's feeling their way in the dark without a clear plan and strong leadership and guidance. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2345 on: April 15, 2013, 01:27:31 AM »
It's very hard to see what they'll do. A trophy, another final and European football was judged not enough to make up for 8th place, will 7th, without the other baubles but with a handful more points and goals scored be sufficient?   
Think last season it was shown that domestic trophies
and finals count for little (didn't seem to be the case today
for the trophy hungry Chelsea & City...what's the matter with
those clubs? can they not see our vision?).

This season Europe was dispensed with...a blessing!

Hand on heart I wouldn't countenance using the word progress
to describe our current predicament (Carra & Stevie still in the side?).

As John Lennon once sang:

"No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of Tricky Dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope "



Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2346 on: April 15, 2013, 12:15:54 PM »
I've wanted to resist from saying that our increased scoring performance has solely been down to Luis' extra goals, and it would be nice to think that we've changed our way of playing to one where more players contribute to the goals, leaving us less reliant on one or two players, but with the bonus that if one or two do score a hatfull, as Luis has done, then it further enhances us.
However, looking at the last two games, West Ham home and Reading away, both the types of games we've done OK in on the whole, games where you would have expected us to get the six points on offer, Luis hasn't scored so neither have we.
Also, whilst a clean sheet is very welcome, has that taken something away from our ability to score?

But it's the failure to score in two games running that is of the most concern. We have a style of play that relies on feeding and creating chances for one person. We need to play in a way that creates chances for multiple players and spreads the goals across a number of players in whatever 11 happen to be on the pitch.

It's one thing we were always good at during our successful times. Whilst we had a main scorer, we also spread goals more evenly throughout the team. It's another chapter Taggart has successfully copied for the teams he's built. Whilst having a chief goalscorer, he's always built teams that spread the goals throughout or rather complement the goals scored by the chief goalscorer and fill in in between so goals are scored irrespective of form of the main goalscorer. Van Persie, for example, yesterday scored for the first time in 10 or something like that (according to the news), yet whilst he hasn't been scoring they've still been picking up the victories.

So comparing this to last season, is it a case that we've scored more simply because Luis' scored more?
Gerrard has played more so that's probably a factor too, but the increased goals haven't come from the 'team' and the increased goals have come at the expense of defensive frailty. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2347 on: April 16, 2013, 07:33:19 PM »
We have a style of play that relies on feeding and creating chances for one person.

looking at the last two games, West Ham home and Reading away, both the types of games we've done OK in on the whole, games where you would have expected us to get the six points on offer, Luis hasn't scored so neither have we.

We need to play in a way that creates chances for multiple players and spreads the goals across a number of players in whatever 11 happen to be on the pitch.

It's one thing we were always good at during our successful times. Whilst we had a main scorer, we also spread goals more evenly throughout the team.

So comparing this to last season, is it a case that we've scored more simply because Luis' scored more?

I have felt the same way all year, Tes.

the way we have built our team around Suarez, reminds me a little of how we did similar things with Owen.

and there is another similarity - I knew when Owen missed a chance near the start of a match, that our luck would be out that day - because Owen was a confidence player.  If he scored, he scored a bagful......but if he missed early on, then forget it that day.

Suarez is the same......a confidence player.  It is a very common trait in forwards.  Whenever I got a goal for the university, it filled me with confidence, and I went on to make and score other chances in the game.

But that is the problem when you base your scoring around one player.  If he is unavailable or has an off-night, the team suffers. 

Now unlike Owen, I do not believe that Suarez is a one trick pony.  I rate him a world class player when it comes to the creation of chances (not so much a world class scorer of chances).  I think other players could excel in and around Suarez's style.  But we need lads of a higher pedigree than Allen, Sturridge, Henderson and even, dare I say it, Gerrard, around him.  We need to bring in quality, not necessarily high priced players, but technical players of quality.  The type that Rafa knew about in Spain, in those early years.....the type that Wenger knew about in France, when he initially came to Arsenal.

But Liverpool are sitting on a cliff-edge.  It merely takes a top club, like Real, Barca, PSG, man City or Bayern, to come in this summer and tempt Suarez to leave, and then Anfield will be in turmoil.  Latin Americans are not known for their loyalty. 

Without Suarez, we are mid-table at best......and more likely looking at fighting bottom of the table battles regularly in the future.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 07:34:44 PM by the dude abides »
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2348 on: April 16, 2013, 11:08:04 PM »
I wouldn't blame Luis if he went. Unlike Torres, Luis gives his all every game, but a player of that quality deserves to be playing against the best in the CL, and unfortunately we don't seem like we're going to be the team to give him that platform. As you say, without Luis (shudders) we would be in grave danger.
We simply don't get the level of performance that you would expect from the sum of the parts.
As we're not going to have the financial muscle to buy great individuals, then any manager of ours has to put together a true 'team', a unit that delivers as a unit, and with the goals spread amongst the squad so we don't rely on any one individual, and that goes for all aspects of our game, apart from goalkeeper for the obvious reason.

Totally agree with you about Owen. It's a dangerous game to pin all your hopes on one striker getting the majority of goals. Goalscoring midfielders don't just get judged on goals. The simple fact that they are a midfielder and not a forward means the pressure's off to a large degree and even if they don't do much else than score goals they don't get the criticism if they have 'droughts'.
And as you say, goalscorers, as opposed to forwards, are confidence creatures. It's all about the goals and if they're not feeling quite right and the chances don't go in, the confidence drops and so do the hopes of the entire team.

If we're to play 4-3-3, then it's important that all front three weigh in with goals and also one of our midfielders. Also as our fullbacks are offensive firstly and defensive secondly, then they should be weighing in with three or four apiece.
We don't have the threat from our central defenders that other clubs do either, though Skrtel's got one or two this season, we could always do with our central defenders (however many play in the league games) weighing in with half a dozen a season between them.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2349 on: April 17, 2013, 11:34:55 AM »
Liverpool rule out Suarez sale

Liverpool managing director Ian Ayre has again insisted that the Premier League club have no interest in selling star striker Luis Suarez.

Suarez currently tops the Premier League scoring charts with 22 goals this term, but the Reds are currently seventh in the standings and eight points adrift of the top four.

A further season without Champions League football has led to suggestions that the Uruguay international could be lured away to pastures new, despite only signing a new long-term contract in the summer.

But Ayre told Sports Illustrated: "To play at the highest level in the Premier League and European soccer, you need players like Luis and Steven Gerrard on your team.

"So the last thing in our mind is selling Luis Suarez. He's not for sale. It's not something we're interested in.

"I remember when they (Fenway Sports Group) bought the team, John (Henry) made a comment in the media: We don't want to just build a team to win but to keep winning. To do that you have to have a number of world-class players on your team."

Ayre also explained how the Premier League club's transfer policy now operates since they were bought out by their American owners, with manager Brendan Rodgers working as part of an extensive team to identify and acquire the right players.

He added: "We were very pleased with the most recent window in January with Philippe Coutinho and Daniel Sturridge. It's a combination of skills and people and processes that bring us to what we're trying to achieve.

"I think the fundamental shift particularly around player acquisitions and disposals was that we took the view that it needs to be more of a science. Your biggest expenditure line can't be the whim of any individual.

"What we believe, and we continue to follow, is you need many people involved in the process. That doesn't mean somebody else is picking the team for Brendan. But Brendan needs to set out with his team of people which positions we want to fill and what the key targets would be for that."

Ayre added: "He has a team of people that go out and do an inordinate amount of analysis work to establish who are the best players in that position.

"It's a combination of old-school scouting and watching players - and that's Brendan, his assistants, our scouts - with statistical analysis of players across Europe and the rest of the world.

"By bringing those two processes together, you get a much more educated view of who you should and shouldn't be buying. And perhaps as fundamentally, how much you should be paying and the structure to those contracts.

"I think we've had relatively good success since we deployed that methodology. We're getting better all the time. Just as you think our football is getting better, our transfer activity is getting better."

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8644459/Liverpool-rule-out-Suarez-sale



hmmm....won't have a choice over that one. If Suarez wants to go to a top club playing Champions League football then you can't stop him. One thing we've seen in the last 10 years is that.
If we bring in a top manager who can turn things around, then he might be able to convince Luis to stay another year, but hell, why wouldn't he want to prove himself at the top level? I know i would, Liverpool supporter or not.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2350 on: April 17, 2013, 03:47:12 PM »
hmmm....won't have a choice over that one. If Suarez wants to go to a top club playing Champions League football then you can't stop him. One thing we've seen in the last 10 years is that.
If we bring in a top manager who can turn things around, then he might be able to convince Luis to stay another year, but hell, why wouldn't he want to prove himself at the top level? I know i would, Liverpool supporter or not.
When Luis scored that stunning free kick against Zenit at Anfield,
it was crystal clear to me that his talents belonged in the Champions
League.

Everton, to their credit, mounted a challenge (stayed with the pack) for 4th &
5th this season albeit presumably falling short in the end, unless Spurs or
Chelsea collapse and Everton hold their nerve.

We, on the other hand, lie 6 points behind Everton, having recently dropped
7 points against Southampton, West Ham & Reading.

Our remaining realistic goal is to finish above Everton & hold off any challenge
from West Brom (should one materialise).

Bearing in mind that this state of affairs arose after us failing dismally in Europe
& only beating West Brom in the CC & Mansfield (luckily) in the FA cup.

Them's the facts at the moment  ::), when the talk from our gaffer subsides.

The question that naturally arises is to what degree BRs fortunes this season are tied
to the genius of Suarez e.g. stick Luis in the West Brom, Swansea or Fulham sides
and would their points tallies at this stage exceed 50?

The blessing of not having any European football next season, does that suit
Luis's ambitions should Bayern, Barca, Real or one of the Italian sides come calling?

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2351 on: April 17, 2013, 09:07:03 PM »
When Luis scored that stunning free kick against Zenit at Anfield,
it was crystal clear to me that his talents belonged in the Champions
League.

Everton, to their credit, mounted a challenge (stayed with the pack) for 4th &
5th this season albeit presumably falling short in the end, unless Spurs or
Chelsea collapse and Everton hold their nerve.

We, on the other hand, lie 6 points behind Everton, having recently dropped
7 points against Southampton, West Ham & Reading.

Our remaining realistic goal is to finish above Everton & hold off any challenge
from West Brom (should one materialise).

Bearing in mind that this state of affairs arose after us failing dismally in Europe
& only beating West Brom in the CC & Mansfield (luckily) in the FA cup.

Them's the facts at the moment  ::), when the talk from our gaffer subsides.

The question that naturally arises is to what degree BRs fortunes this season are tied
to the genius of Suarez e.g. stick Luis in the West Brom, Swansea or Fulham sides
and would their points tallies at this stage exceed 50?

The blessing of not having any European football next season, does that suit
Luis's ambitions should Bayern, Barca, Real or one of the Italian sides come calling?

Nice summing up, Ed, and despite the burning desire to want to talk honestly about progress and a realistic chance of challenging to break back into the top four, it feels like a step forward and a pace back this season, with the image being one of the football being more easy on the eye but ultimately no more successful than recent seasons.
Talking in any way positively about a lack of European football, whether it's EL or CL, can't be what players like Luis want to hear. Afterall, he left a team that always had a decent chance of CL football, but never lasted long in the competition, to come to one that had only suffered one season out of the competition and had reached two finals and another semi and quarter in the previous 7 seasons.
European football is an absolute must for a team with 5 European Cups and 3 UEFA Cups to it's name.

It also sends out a message to the players that at LFC you're not expected to perform above the norm, or of the expectation levels of mid and lower table teams. European football may seem like a big adventure to the likes of Swansea, but for us it needs to be part of our staple diet.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2352 on: April 21, 2013, 07:00:05 PM »
Well that was eventful!
Chelsea took the lead, good goal..
Good goal setup by suarez for sturridge..
Stupid penalty caused by Suarez..
Glorious equaliser set up by sturridge for suarez...

supposed biting...i want to see the pictures of his mortal wound..

Woeful midfield...we need at least 4 good midfielders..shelvey, downing,
at times chelsea took us apart...

we need a world class manager....who will BEG suarez to stay...if we don't we're done...
 

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2353 on: April 21, 2013, 08:29:49 PM »
Dude's worst nightmare  ;D   ;D  ;D


Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2354 on: April 21, 2013, 10:12:24 PM »
Dude's worst nightmare  ;D   ;D  ;D



Prophetic? Get down the bookies now.  ;D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.