November 18, 2019, 08:58:50 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 281853 times)

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2445 on: May 06, 2013, 11:41:04 AM »
once again, when we face a half-decent side, that is well organised, we struggle.

our manager was incapable of changing things with subs, or resorting to a different plan.

everton should have won - there was nothing wrong with their goal.

I predict that we will be in a similar position, in the league, come this time next year.

we are playing keegan type football.  Only I think Keegan was better, with some more tactical abilities.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2446 on: May 07, 2013, 12:20:03 AM »
Totally agree, Dude. It's really hard to see what will change in order to see enough of an improvement to be even challenging (and I don't mean achieving) for a EL place, never mind being in the mix for 4th. I won't got as far as saying top four because 3rd, 2nd or 1st are on another planet and are likely to remain so.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2447 on: May 07, 2013, 01:27:05 AM »
it really is nowhere near good enough, Tes.

I can live with competing with spurs and arsenal for 4th spot.  I cannot live with competing with everton, wba and swansea for 6th to 8th spots.

the danger is that our owners (and a significant number of fans) may begin to accept that this is Liverpool's level. 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2448 on: May 07, 2013, 02:45:11 PM »


I didn;t want to start another thread, on a small issue.

But look at Steve Morgan's Wolves.  Our once would-be new owner is now looking for his 5th manager in only 15 months.  The nutter sacked a good manager, Mick McCarthy, a year ago, and Wolves have been relegated twice since then.  They are in free-fall.

Today, they sacked Dean Saunders (never management material, IMHO).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/wolverhampton-wanderers/10040874/Wolves-sack-manager-Dean-Saunders-after-relegation-from-the-Championship.html
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2449 on: May 07, 2013, 10:59:24 PM »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2450 on: May 08, 2013, 01:25:50 AM »


I didn;t want to start another thread, on a small issue.

But look at Steve Morgan's Wolves.  Our once would-be new owner is now looking for his 5th manager in only 15 months.  The nutter sacked a good manager, Mick McCarthy, a year ago, and Wolves have been relegated twice since then.  They are in free-fall.

Today, they sacked Dean Saunders (never management material, IMHO).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/wolverhampton-wanderers/10040874/Wolves-sack-manager-Dean-Saunders-after-relegation-from-the-Championship.html

Another self made business man who thinks because he stood on the terraces as a boy he knows it all. What he expected Mick McCarthy to achieve, I just don't get.
To keep Wolves in the division on the budget he was given was always going to be tougher than tough. Wolves are the kind of club that have to bounce between the Premier League and Championship and gradually build. WBA are the perfect example of how to do it.

I like Mick McCarthy. He's maybe not the best coach but he's straight and honest and how players can't play for someone like that is a disgrace.

I wonder which no-chancer gets appointed at Wolves next. Morgan needs to understand that he has to build a stable club and be patient whilst they gradually build their way to promotion. Swansea are a great example of that, having gradually built their way up and out of the Championship.

Huw Jenkins is exactly the sort of common sense chairman/MD/CEO we need. I've huge admiration for him (you can probably tell from the amount I've mentioned him previously  ;D ).

Here's a great piece about him. Humble as Hell and twice as talented:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21535027
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2451 on: May 08, 2013, 01:34:18 AM »
major rumours that Fergie is preparing to call it a day.  Talk of retirement announcement before the weekend.
Cue outpourings of sentimentality from all and sundry.

As far as I'm concerned, it should be met with a studied silence from
our end. A studied f*cking silence.

You know I'd almost forgive Rodge a season's worth of Yap if he could get
the response bang on.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2452 on: May 09, 2013, 12:55:59 AM »
Who's first to get sacked next season Moyes or Rodgers?  ;D

Hopefully now we be able to finish above Everton next season.  It'll be interesting to see how they manage without Gill and Taggart next season. I wonder if Moyes gets the 'hairdryer treatment' from the boardroom next season.  ;D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2453 on: May 09, 2013, 11:43:58 PM »
heck, I am disappointed that no wag on one of the Liverpool forums started a rumour that Rodgers was linked to the Old Trafford hotseat.    :)

Moyes fully deserves the job.  Re net budget correlated with performance, I imagine there has not been a better manager in Britain these past 10 years.  If he had not been everton boss, he would have made a good boss at Anfield.

but having said that, is he a winner.  We will have to wait and see.  But the old trafford juggernaut  will roll on regardless, for several years.  Just like we did after 1985, when dalglish got the job.

I suspect moyes will merely be, at best, the equal of the other top managers in the premiership.

Fergie was a one-off.  He broke the celtic/rangers stranglehold in scotland, and then knocked liverpool off their perch in england.  That was a helluva an achievement.  We will not see his likes again. 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2454 on: May 10, 2013, 01:02:28 AM »
Rodgers was linked to the Old Trafford hotseat.
Mystifying!  ;D I wonder has Charlton read the 180 page report!

Moyes fully deserves the job.  Re net budget correlated with performance, I imagine there has not been a better manager in Britain these past 10 years.  If he had not been everton boss, he would have made a good boss at Anfield.
He's served his time but is still young enough. Don't know much about
him, but he speaks well in interviews (full of determination). Agree, would have seen him as a
contender for our gig (politics aside!).

but having said that, is he a winner.  We will have to wait and see.  But the old trafford juggernaut  will roll on regardless, for several years.
Yeah, the lack of silverware...it will be interesting  :) They've been through this before after
Busby. Bobby Charlton is the guy who's seen it all before. What I see is guys like Rafa, Mou
etc. would be too big to work with SAF in the transition period and in that respect Moyes is
perfect to try and extend a legacy/dynasty. The obvious difference is that they have football
men behind the scenes to help & Moyes has 11 years of bread & butter PL experience i.e. it's
not the hopeless mess we're in.

As you say the tension arises short-term (3 years) when the commercial imperatives of glory/trophies
coupled with their fickle fans stoked by a rampant media comes up against old-school football giants
(SAF/Charlton). With Chelsea & City ready to pounce and surely Arsenal re-invigorated.

Fergie was a one-off.  We will not see his likes again. 
Precisely. Moyesie is no Fergie. Sure they are a well run club with structures in place to
maintain their position at the top in the short term. But an era has well and truly finished.

Sadly, oh so sadly, I cannot see Ayres/Rodgers/Pascoe doing anything about it.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2455 on: May 10, 2013, 06:48:22 PM »
Mystifying!  ;D I wonder has Charlton read the 180 page report!

As you say the tension arises short-term (3 years) when the commercial imperatives of glory/trophies
coupled with their fickle fans stoked by a rampant media comes up against old-school football giants
(SAF/Charlton).

Precisely. Moyesie is no Fergie. Sure they are a well run club with structures in place to
maintain their position at the top in the short term. But an era has well and truly finished.

 :D   yes, clearly United did not take the time to read Brent's 180 page report on the way a club should be run.

otherwise, our youngster would have at least got an interview.

Moyes is a good man and a top appointment, especially for long term continuity.

However, Fergie was a one-off.  And regardless of hos successful Moyes will be, he will never be close to what Fergie was about.  I see, at best, Moyes merely being the equal of top bosses at other clubs.

Mourinho must be licking his mental wounds.  He really flashed his eyes and swooned over the folks at Old Trafford.  But they did not as much as even give him the time of day.

If he comes back to england this summer, it would appear to be only to Chelsea.

That leaves Rafa free.  If i were City, I would approach Rafa. 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2456 on: May 10, 2013, 08:49:49 PM »
However, Fergie was a one-off.  And regardless of hos successful Moyes will be, he will never be close to what Fergie was about.   
Yeah, Fergie called us out, got in our face and beat the sh*t out of us!  ;D

Moyes doesn't have that edge or aura. Not to say he doesn't have a chance
to be successful, just lacks that nemesis vibe (the psychological thing).

Least we can focus on ourselves now (and without the distraction of Fergie,
remember that City & Chelsea are big beasts going nowhere anytime soon).

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2457 on: May 10, 2013, 10:32:34 PM »
Moyes has the league calibre no doubt about it. If we'd got our squads performing to the levels Moyes has mostly managed, we wouldn't know what it was like outside the top four.

The problems will come in Europe. Moyes has no experience, apart from a few embarrassing cameos.

Taggart had a Cup Winners Cup at Pittoderie as well as an early one at the Mancs but even he admitted it took him a long time and the appointment of Carlos Queiroz to really understand what was needed in the CL.

Moyes has only a couple of fag and booze runs in comparison.

The momentum and infrastructure should see them tread water for a few seasons but they do need a few players replacing in the very near future and that will be where the problems start, I think.

Will Moyes be able to attract the players of the calibre required? He'll be helped with who he should be looking at but Taggart won't be the same attraction now for players, even though he'll still be there.
And how much influence will he try to exert? He's hardly a shrinking violet and I think he'll miss being out of the spotlight, especially if the results start off a bit iffy.

How will Moyes react when the pressure's on? Will he be able to resist 'settling' for a result, which is what his mindset has been at Everton. Taggart would take off a defender and the most defensive minded midfielder and throw on two more forwards to get the result. You have to win and you win in a certain style. They can also dig out results when they've not played well because they remain relentless in their attacking intent whether it's been working or not. And will all the decisions that have gone for them in the past still go for them?
The dodgy penalty needed to break the deadlock? Will they always keep 11 on the pitch when it's obvious to anyone fairminded that they should be down to 10 or even 9.
Will the FA continue to be quite so lenient towards their onfield activities?

I think we'll see the cycle come to an end like it did with us. Moyes may well be able to bring in players early, but as more need replacing will he still be able to attract what's required or to get it  right with the standard required.
Dalglish did well with Houghton, Aldridge, Barnes and Beardsley, but then it started to slip with David Speedie, Rosenthal, Jimmy Carter, even Gary Ablett.
He's got an ageing defense, 3 of 4 at least, Scholes, Giggs, Valencia and Young haven't proved to be longer term solutions, if Woonie goes, RVP's not young anymore. Taggart got the best out of them because they were his men and his reputation saw to the rest.

The worse thing about the timing of this is that we aren't in any position to take the slightest advantage of any dip. If Arsenal keep Wenger, Spurs keep faith with AVB, City keep their stars and even better get a proper manager and Abramovich gets his next appointment anything but woefully wrong, then that's the new top four. The best we could hope for is to finish not too close behind the Mancs in sixth with the rightful order on Merseyside restored.       
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2458 on: May 13, 2013, 12:15:15 AM »
A Sturridge hatrick. £35M on Carroll instead of Sturridge + £40M looks even worse still. 11 goals in 15, even if we only give him 1 for today, that's 9 in 15, better than 1 in 2.
He's now scored nearly 0.8 goals per game since his arrival.

Let's hope we definately have a repeat of January and not last Summer, in the next window. Coutinho's also looking a better piece of business with every game. Let's hope Rodgers leaves his ex players alone and buys players who can actually improve the first 11 and forgets about squad players. Let the displaced first 11 player become the squad player. First 11 players only.
If that means getting 2 instead of 3 or 4, then that's the way it has to be. Forget the quantity, focus on quality, and if we have to, then pad the squad out with youngsters.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2459 on: May 13, 2013, 01:59:26 AM »
Good result!

Strange game. We got lucky round the 60 minute mark with the
Lucas Handball & Coates' nudge as last defender.

Was really annoyed with the passing round at the back whilst it
was still 2-1.

We still had the much better chances though & could have scored another 2.

So happy enough but wouldn't read an awful lot into an odd game and am
certainly not indulging any sort of hyperbole based on an end of season dead rubber
match.