November 15, 2019, 10:29:49 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 281007 times)

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #405 on: September 23, 2012, 08:39:23 PM »
yes, data has never been your friend, Martin.

Twisting them in to suit your negative agenda with no intellectual intent, however, seems to be a favorite pastime of yours.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #406 on: September 23, 2012, 08:39:31 PM »
Will we finish top 4? NO will we be relegated? NO We will finish either 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th. So in reality it doesn't matter 5th or 8th.
Oh look, you miss the point. It matters where we finish in the league.

A team doesn't progress from one season to the next if it doesn't.
Every game and every point is important. There can be no other attitude.

btw, does it matter if we finish 9th?

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #407 on: September 23, 2012, 08:45:30 PM »
what are you on about.

we did not recruit Rafa based on his first 4 games at Valencia.

in the same way that United did not recruit Ferguson based on his 4 results with Aberdeen.

what point are you trying to make?

I stand to be corrected on this, but is it not the case that Rafa beat
Real Madrid in his first league game in charge at Valencia. A game in
which Zidane was making his debut.

It makes no difference, it's well documented that Rafa had struggles in his
first season in charge. What's your point??

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #408 on: September 23, 2012, 08:46:02 PM »
Oh look, you miss the point. It matters where we finish in the league.

A team doesn't progress from one season to the next if it doesn't.
Every game and every point is important. There can be no other attitude.

btw, does it matter if we finish 9th?

What I think Ed's saying is that the primary aim of this season is to see qualitative improvement rather than finishing 6th or 9th. All in all we were never likely to finish in the top 4 so what's the fuss?

Every point counts indeed but with the performances hitherto I feel for the first time in a decade we could go on a long winning streak. The goals will come - just look at Suarez, Borini and Sterling in the first half. And that after just a handful of games. It is painful to read the table but that will change sooner rather than later. Just look at Spurs. They have nothing about them that suggest they'll win the title any time soon, let alone finishing 4th. Would you really want to swap with them? I know I wouldn't. For the first time in a very long time I'm really really proud of the team and the footy it produces.  :)
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #409 on: September 23, 2012, 08:47:43 PM »
I stand to be corrected on this, but is it not the case that Rafa beat
Real Madrid in his first league game in charge at Valencia. A game in
which Zidane was making his debut.

It makes no difference, it's well documented that Rafa had struggles in his
first season in charge. What's your point??

First of all you're wrong. He lost his first 4 games as manager of Valencia. Secondly, my point is that few probably realised then he'd lead them to their first La Liga win in 31 years. Maybe we should be just a little more patient? No?
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #410 on: September 23, 2012, 08:52:50 PM »
First of all you're wrong. He lost his first 4 games as manager of Valencia. Secondly, my point is that few probably realised then he'd lead them to their first La Liga win in 31 years. Maybe we should be just a little more patient? No?
FFS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%9302_Valencia_CF_season

Fact.  :P

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #411 on: September 23, 2012, 08:54:11 PM »
Oh look, you miss the point. It matters where we finish in the league.

A team doesn't progress from one season to the next if it doesn't.
Every game and every point is important. There can be no other attitude.

btw, does it matter if we finish 9th?

Well you keep missing my point.

You see progress in terms of climbing the league table and whilst in generic terms I see that as progress too, we need to look deeper into things rather than our league placement.

If you and I can see we are trying to implement a new style of play, a new set of ideals that Rodgers wants us to play and a long term vision that he has for us then for me progress is watching that come together and all of that coming to fruition.

Such is life that before any vision can come to light that there will be ups and downs and major inconsistencies. This comes with it and we all have to learn that these inconsistencies comes with it and as such in the short term it will have a negative impact in terms of getting results and in term have a negative effect on where we will finish in the league.

It seems you are either unwilling or unable to accept that and not just you but others also.

I WILL be on the same boat as you complaining about our results and league placement if there are no signs at all of progress - but I do see embryotic stages of progress.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #412 on: September 23, 2012, 09:01:13 PM »
So what is everyone's definition of 'improvement' over first this, and then next season. Take the two seasons as a whole or individually.


As for implementing any style of football (irrespective of who's name is above the manager's door) the only football worth implementing is winning football.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #413 on: September 23, 2012, 09:01:34 PM »
Well you keep missing my point.

You see progress in terms of climbing the league table and whilst in generic terms I see that as progress too, we need to look deeper into things rather than our league placement.

If you and I can see we are trying to implement a new style of play, a new set of ideals that Rodgers wants us to play and a long term vision that he has for us then for me progress is watching that come together and all of that coming to fruition.

Such is life that before any vision can come to light that there will be ups and downs and major inconsistencies. This comes with it and we all have to learn that these inconsistencies comes with it and as such in the short term it will have a negative impact in terms of getting results and in term have a negative effect on where we will finish in the league.

It seems you are either unwilling or unable to accept that and not just you but others also.

I WILL be on the same boat as you complaining about our results and league placement if there are no signs at all of progress - but I do see embryotic stages of progress.
Look, have I called for the manager to be sacked? No.

Have I not said that I wouldn't be surprised if we had a
shine-a-light start? Yes.

Do I particularly like the manager? No, sorry I can't help that.

Would I be more supportive of him if he shut up and stopped
marvelling at the sound of his own voice? Yes.

Now where we appear to differ is that you are optimistic about
this appointment for reasons of your own and I'm deeply suspicious.
There's a long way to go in the season yet, so we'll see.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #414 on: September 23, 2012, 09:11:02 PM »
There's been so much made both in the media and by Rodgers (either refers to or infers) of 'his' style and type of football, but just 'what' is it that apparently makes it both so 'different' and 'stand out'?

I ask, because I really can't see, from everything I've read and heard, what and where these differences are that make it apparently so 'unique' and rarely seen before.

I'm not being sarky, I'm being genuine.     
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #415 on: September 23, 2012, 09:24:16 PM »
FFS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%9302_Valencia_CF_season

Fact.  :P

 :D

  • Valencia-Real Madrid 1-0
  • Valladolid-Valencia 1-1
  • Valencia-Las Palmas 1-0
  • Athletic Bilbao-Valencia 2-2
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #416 on: September 23, 2012, 09:27:20 PM »
There's been so much made both in the media and by Rodgers (either refers to or infers) of 'his' style and type of football, but just 'what' is it that apparently makes it both so 'different' and 'stand out'?

I ask, because I really can't see, from everything I've read and heard, what and where these differences are that make it apparently so 'unique' and rarely seen before.

I'm not being sarky, I'm being genuine.   

I have asked the same question, Tes  (though, unlike you, I was most likely being a tad sarky)

beyond the grand notion of passing the ball to a fellow red, what grandeous new philosophy does Rodgers bring to the table?

nada, nothing, zip, zero, nuthin
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #417 on: September 23, 2012, 10:25:48 PM »
As far as having possession goes, it's not the amount of possession or the mere fact that you have possession, it's what is done with that possession. It would be interesting to see the amount of possession the Mourinho led Chelsea had in their Championship winning seasons in percentage.

I read something the other day where Rodgers claims that teams who win regularly average a 79% possession count.

Now my maths isn't up there with Einstein's but that roughly equates to around 71 minutes per game, leaving approximately 19 minutes when you don't have the ball. That's not too far off a quarter of the match.
Now how do you equate his idea that we defend with the ball, by having the ball.

As we are not going to have the ball for approximately a fifth of the game (once his ideas are fully achieved), how are we to defend for all that time? So far our defending this season has seen us concede more than an average of two goals a game in the league, which would equate to 76+ over a season. Actually that's not true (hopefully) as that average shouldn't be maintained throughout the whole season.

But again, I need help in understanding how we are to defend, as relying on having the ball as a means of defending seems illogical, so how does Rodgers' methods work on the defensive side of the game?   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #418 on: September 24, 2012, 12:16:54 AM »
Twisting data to suit your negative agenda with no intellectual intent, however, seems to be a favorite pastime of yours.

what, like claiming that Rafa had lost his first four games after his appointment at Valencia, when in fact he had won 2, and drawn 2? 

Valencia-Real Madrid 1-0
Valladolid-Valencia 1-1
Valencia-Las Palmas 1-0
Athletic Bilbao-Valencia 2-2

Is that an example of corruptly using data to push a negative agenda, that you had in mind?
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #419 on: September 24, 2012, 09:30:26 AM »
FFS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%9302_Valencia_CF_season

Fact.  :P

I stand corrected. My bad, fault, what have you. I know I read somewhere he didn't get off flying when taking over at Mestalla, it must have been a previous assignment.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.