Season 2012-2013

[the dude abides]

nasty personal abuse, is your answer to everything. 

and like last weekend, YOU bring up the name 'Benitez' (not me).

[Martinmarx]

so what does that say about us.

Quite a lot actually, and good things too at that considering we're building for the future and are some way from where we want to be. Again the ref denied us the points but it's supposed to even out.

[the dude abides]

Quite a lot actually, and good things too at that considering we're building for the future and are some way from where we want to be. Again the ref denied us the points but it's supposed to even out.

yes, very poor decision by the linesman.

but as for luck, Kenny also felt it would even out, and it never did.

[Ed]

Well it says that Everton's best ever team under moyes can't beat one of our most weakest teams and youngest team in premier league history. That's what it tells me.

Em, we've dropped 17 points in our opening 9 fixtures, so perhaps
a sense of perspective is required?

[Tes]

but as for luck, Kenny also felt it would even out, and it never did.

As Gary Player said "The more I practice the luckier I get".

Only saw the last five minutes but can't work out what the linesman thought he saw. If Jagielka chooses not to jump and Coates comes down on him, it's not a foul. I wonder if anyone else would have been flagged offside (if that's what the flag was for).

[the dude abides]

As Gary Player said "The more I practice the luckier I get".

Grate minds.        I had been thinking of using that Gary Player line, when writing the above post.

yes, the bad luck excuse gets old very quickly in professional sport.

Only saw the last five minutes but can't work out what the linesman thought he saw. If Jagielka chooses not to jump and Coates comes down on him, it's not a foul. I wonder if anyone else would have been flagged offside (if that's what the flag was for).

no, clearly nobody was offside.  The reds were not even level, with the blues, farless offside.

I assume that he belatedly disallowed it for the Coates jump.  But as you say, it was never a foul.

Listen, if Man Utd score in this scenario, it always counts.

But I will admit, the everton fans were immense today and the noise they generated put  a lot of pressure on officials.  No excuse though, for a very bad decision.

[Ed]

Thought Everton were the better team but we were unjustly
denied a clear winner. Shocking decision. 

Credit to Joe Allen today, thought he wasup against it with
Felliani and at times the match-up was comical, given
their heights. But he never gave up and that's something that's
great to see.

As I've said before, i just don't understand starting with kids
and in the Merseyside derby (baptism of fire)??

What I saw was lads like Daniel, Martin, Stevie and Luis who
relish the occasion want to be there (even Jones to his credit
looked like he was not phased by it) and then at the other end of
the scale there's players (and this is entirely normal) that didn't
necessarily look comfortable (1 or 2 statues). I never got that
impression with the Everton lads, a well drilled determined outfit.

Imo, the kids are more effective in bursts, last 20 minutes send
Sterling on, he'll win a peno. I thought Henderson with his physicality
and premier league experience (150 games) would've suited the
game and Shelvey and Downing should've figured from the start
(at the expense of Suso, Sterling and Sahin).

Anyway, no problem with the point, but still think there's much work
to do and hope lessons are being learned.

[Tes]

Thought Everton were the better team but we were unjustly
denied a clear winner. Shocking decision. 

Credit to Joe Allen today, thought he wasup against it with
Felliani and at times the match-up was comical, given
their heights. But he never gave up and that's something that's
great to see.

As I've said before, i just don't understand starting with kids
and in the Merseyside derby (baptism of fire)??

What I saw was lads like Daniel, Martin, Stevie and Luis who
relish the occasion want to be there (even Jones to his credit
looked like he was not phased by it) and then at the other end of
the scale there's players (and this is entirely normal) that didn't
necessarily look comfortable (1 or 2 statues). I never got that
impression with the Everton lads, a well drilled determined outfit.

Imo, the kids are more effective in bursts, last 20 minutes send
Sterling on, he'll win a peno. I thought Henderson with his physicality
and premier league experience (150 games) would've suited the
game and Shelvey and Downing should've figured from the start
(at the expense of Suso, Sterling and Sahin).

Anyway, no problem with the point, but still think there's much work
to do and hope lessons are being learned.

Ed, I agree with starting with Shelvey as he looks like he can handle himself. Suso would probably not be first choice for a Derby yet, maybe Assaidi instead due both to his age and the fact that he's not looked phased when he's had a bit of a 'roughing up' against some of the opponents he's played against.
Sterling, I would have had on. He's shown no fear, both in his ability to play his natural game, and against Premiership players literally twice his size, and whilst we match their 'Dogs of War' approach, we then need a bit of 'silk and skill' to be the difference maker.
I watched the full game this evening on a recorded stream, and how Fellaini stayed on is beyond me. There was a point when Sterling was sandwiched between Fellaini and another Everton player, I forget who, but Fellaini kicked out at Sterling twice before the combined efforts of the two brought him down. No card of course.
Fellaini also pulled Agger back when Agger got booked. There were also another couple of occasions were he lead with his studs and another challenge where he went in elbow first.

Neither Henderson or Downing can be relied upon to dig deep if things get a bit physical, though Henderson has look a bit more 'up for it' this season when he's played.

Everton were both the form team and the settled squad/manager etc, so to go 2-0 nil up, considering their form and results this season was no mean feat. Just our defending let us down and for once (in a recent Derby) Everton didn't just accept their fate.

[Ed]

Ed, I agree with starting with Shelvey as he looks like he can handle himself. Suso would probably not be first choice for a Derby yet, maybe Assaidi instead due both to his age and the fact that he's not looked phased when he's had a bit of a 'roughing up' against some of the opponents he's played against.
Sterling, I would have had on. He's shown no fear, both in his ability to play his natural game, and against Premiership players literally twice his size, and whilst we match their 'Dogs of War' approach, we then need a bit of 'silk and skill' to be the difference maker.
I watched the full game this evening on a recorded stream, and how Fellaini stayed on is beyond me. There was a point when Sterling was sandwiched between Fellaini and another Everton player, I forget who, but Fellaini kicked out at Sterling twice before the combined efforts of the two brought him down. No card of course.
Fellaini also pulled Agger back when Agger got booked. There were also another couple of occasions were he lead with his studs and another challenge where he went in elbow first.

Neither Henderson or Downing can be relied upon to dig deep if things get a bit physical, though Henderson has look a bit more 'up for it' this season when he's played.

Everton were both the form team and the settled squad/manager etc, so to go 2-0 nil up, considering their form and results this season was no mean feat. Just our defending let us down and for once (in a recent Derby) Everton didn't just accept their fate.

It's almost as if he said "Hey, I'm going to do it my way" and spent the rest of
the game retreating from that position to "Jesus, throw on the big lads! "
.

I think Henderson could have done a job all game helping Wisdom out and whoever on the left
Downing/Assaidi. Introduce Sterling with 20 minutes to go. Anyway, i don't care because a
draw was fine but lessons should be learned because it's a long season.

[Tes]

I  hope the manager is re-evaluating his way of playing as the defensive aspect has cost us more points than the 'non-scoring' part. I don't mean change it wholesale, but something has to be tweaked.
We're placing for too much pressure on ourselves with the goals we're conceding.

[Tes]

From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/29/liverpool-steven-gerrard-everton-physical

Gerrard did reserve praise for Raheem Sterling, Liverpool's 17-year-old winger, who overcame a difficult start to impress on his Merseyside derby debut. The Liverpool captain added: "Sterling has been a revelation for us. To be 17 years of age away in a derby, in a cauldron of an atmosphere against a big, physical long-ball team, I thought he was outstanding. I don't think the Everton players would have known too much about Raheem Sterling before Sunday. But I think they are going to be seeing an awful lot of him in the future. He is going to be playing in many, many Merseyside derbies. He is going to have a major impact in them.

"He is going to be one of the top players in the league, there's no doubt about it. The way he stands up for himself, wants the ball and doesn't hide. It's a credit to himself. He has some bottle. That's what you look for in young lads. You wonder whether they have the bottle to play away against tough teams in tough situations and he handled it superbly."

Stewart Downing, take note.

[Ed]

From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/29/liverpool-steven-gerrard-everton-physical

Gerrard did reserve praise for Raheem Sterling, Liverpool's 17-year-old winger, who overcame a difficult start to impress on his Merseyside derby debut. The Liverpool captain added: "Sterling has been a revelation for us. To be 17 years of age away in a derby, in a cauldron of an atmosphere against a big, physical long-ball team, I thought he was outstanding. I don't think the Everton players would have known too much about Raheem Sterling before Sunday. But I think they are going to be seeing an awful lot of him in the future. He is going to be playing in many, many Merseyside derbies. He is going to have a major impact in them.

"He is going to be one of the top players in the league, there's no doubt about it. The way he stands up for himself, wants the ball and doesn't hide. It's a credit to himself. He has some bottle. That's what you look for in young lads. You wonder whether they have the bottle to play away against tough teams in tough situations and he handled it superbly."

Stewart Downing, take note.

See the point I'd make is if Raheem is in the first 11 as a starter, then that is
what is expected of him.

There's no point playing the kids if the only point it serves is to say "we're playing
the kids".

We're looking for results is the attitude and the reason this lad is in the first 11 is
because there is a strong belief that he can help us get a result.

[the dude abides]

I think Henderson could have done a job all game helping Wisdom out and whoever on the left
Downing/Assaidi. Introduce Sterling with 20 minutes to go. Anyway, i don't care because a
draw was fine but lessons should be learned because it's a long season.

I thought Henderson was poor.

But then again, Allen, Suso, Wisdom and Sterling were all not at the races.  Ideally, I would bring Sterling on as my game-changing sub, with 20 minutes to go.  But the problem is, with such a limited squad, who do we put on for the first 70 minutes.

There's no point playing the kids if the only point it serves is to say "we're playing
the kids".

We're looking for results is the attitude

exactly.

we have ten points, with almost a quarter of the season gone.

we need to kick on from this point onwards.  Or else, we are looking at a nightmare scenario.

[the dude abides]

I  hope the manager is re-evaluating his way of playing as the defensive aspect has cost us more points than the 'non-scoring' part. I don't mean change it wholesale, but something has to be tweaked.
We're placing for too much pressure on ourselves with the goals we're conceding.

we have got no balance.  And that is where the top managers excel.  They create balanced teams.

And as we have said many many times, one builds from the back. 

[Edward224]

we need to kick on from this point onwards.  Or else, we are looking at a nightmare scenario.

I agree I think we are going down.