October 16, 2019, 06:49:14 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 266844 times)

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #150 on: August 22, 2012, 08:55:21 PM »
He has one of those 'instantly re-filling' glasses. It's to be hoped someone knocks it on the floor, and soon.
Jesus, this is beyond parody...

http://tomkinstimes.com/2012/08/taking-comfort-in-statistics/

"But Liverpool fans have been seeking solace in statistics this week, as the post-mortem on their side’s surprisingly comprehensive defeat at the hands of West Bromwich Albion revealed some mixed results. Alan Hansen’s thinly-veiled criticism of Rodgers implored Liverpool’s defenders to “play the percentages,” but Andrew Beasley has noted some of the ways that the Reds performance was a statistical improvement on many of last season’s performances. For example, there were more than twice as many “final-third regains” vs West Brom in comparison with the 2011/12 average, and final-third passing accuracy was significantly improved.

It is fascinating that upon hearing such statistics our response is often to suggest that Rodgers had made many of the right decisions, and that we were unlucky to lose in this situation; that, on another day, we would’ve been victorious. There aren’t many of us who assume that improved final-third regains and passing accuracy must lead to a reduced chance of victory. In fact, we cling to such statistics as crumbs of comfort, as evidence that if the game was repeated a hundred times we’d win more often than not. Beez even concludes: “If they can manage all of that when losing 3-0, then there’s certainly hope for Liverpool this season yet.”

This is a fascinating idea: that the result isn’t necessarily the bottom line for those who see the bigger picture. Results can fluctuate due to a combination of circumstances and luck, but the search for the most logical and effective system must persist. "


I actually have no problem in just accepting that the opposition we're better motivated and
fearless in their pursuit of a result.

Maybe we should change the anthem to "When you walk through a storm, get out a big calculator..."

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #151 on: August 22, 2012, 11:18:50 PM »
Jesus, this is beyond parody...

Maybe we should change the anthem to "When you walk through a storm, get out a big calculator..."

 ;D

Once they start giving points out for passes completed and winning possession back in the final third we'll be back amongst the Champions League places in no time.

Rodgers "system" is going to take time and Im prepared to afford him that but if we play like we did against West Brom too often we will be lucky to finish in the top half of the table. There were two new players in that starting 11, its not like the players didnt know each other, the performance was abysmal whether we had 10 men or not. It puts big pressure on our first home game against City next Sunday. We dont want to go on a run of defeats so early because they press would be all over Rodgers ramping up the pressure on him ten fold.


Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #152 on: August 23, 2012, 12:57:25 AM »
Exactly, Dalglish should have dealt with the Agger sending off much better, and I thought Hodgson's substitutions just made a bad situation worse.
Hopefully when the new manager gets appointed we'll see an improvement in the play, afterall surely it can't be any worse than what Dalglish's team has been churning out, and surely there has to be more tactical awareness and improvement in the transfer market than we've seen from Hodgson. He certainly won't make the same mistake of just buying players he's worked with before, whether they're suitable or not and overpaying for the privilege.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #153 on: August 23, 2012, 10:08:01 AM »
so you have been banned and barred a fair bit, Martin.

yes, RAWK and YNWA are almost like totalitarian regimes.  Unless you follow the party line and lick the boots of the key people, you will get haranged and bullied out of there.   Meaningful debate is all but impossible. 

As for Brent, one's talking is done ON the pitch.  The lad is easy to see through.  He is a bullsh.itter.  He is promoted way way above his station.

the likes of an aston villa, bolton, west ham or newcastle, would normally be the type of club taking a chance with such a young manager.

the way he is talking, you;d think he had a few league titles under his belt. 

but it goes beyond him.  I think our owners should sell up and leave.

I hear what you say my friend and I can't say there's nothing to it. At the same time, your uncritical and messianic praise of Rafa makes it hard to take in. No offense mate, but you never really came across as open to the fact that Rafa maybe wasn't the right man but rathe was the victim of vicious circumstances. In part he was I'll give you that. But something happened to him and the way I see it (altho I've only followed the game for some 35 years) he has nobody to blame for is failure than himself.

What I am trying to say here is that you may be proven right in time Brenny wasn't the right man. However, your guesses are just that while you make it sound as the objective truth referring to the glory days of Rafa. All this in good old Swenglish.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #154 on: August 23, 2012, 04:18:30 PM »
Here we go again:

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/08/23/3324361/fulham-make-official-complaint-about-rodgers-pursuit-of

I mean whatever about his footballing know how, I just don't feel that BR is
an authoritative enough personality to manage the club at this current time.
He fills the young up and coming coach profile but will lack real authority and
credibility, both among the star players and media, until he actually wins things.

More swept along by the tide instead of parting the Red Sea. :(

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #155 on: August 23, 2012, 04:49:53 PM »
Here we go again:

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/08/23/3324361/fulham-make-official-complaint-about-rodgers-pursuit-of

I mean whatever about his footballing know how, I just don't feel that BR is
an authoritative enough personality to manage the club at this current time.
He fills the young up and coming coach profile but will lack real authority and
credibility, both among the star players and media, until he actually wins things.

More swept along by the tide instead of parting the Red Sea. :(

Then we had the farce of NESN posting the 'article' about us having signed Dempsey. A know nothing American site talking about 'soccer' - a license for a cock-up.

Apparently, either as a result of this or an enquiry early in the window, which has never actually seen us make a bid due to the ridiculous price being asked by Fulham (however, let's not forget he is their star player) Dempsey got it in his head that we were signing him and he was going to play for us. I don't think we've deliberately unsettled or tapped up the player, at least not in the concerted and underhand way Newcastle having been chipping away over Carroll, but again it's down to the naivity of Werner and the ill informed and cluelessness of NESN and their attempt to report 'soccer news'. I doubt there's an informed, experienced, British football man on their editorial staff.
Whether that is enough for it to be regarded as the club as such having transgressed, we'll have to wait and see but it's another embarrassment either way for 'the club'.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #156 on: August 23, 2012, 06:24:32 PM »
it's another embarrassment either way for 'the club'.
Yeah wish we could just stop with the embarrassing cock-ups  (it drains my enthusiasm for
supporting the club. Still, I suppose Newcastle were a laughing stock before they got their
act together in a way nobody would have thought possible).

Dug up an interview with Marshy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaK-KZETRmg

Comes across as a decent guy even makes reference to the idea that he "doesn't see himself
being here as a token Scouser!"


Whether he turns out to be just a mini-me for Rodgers ego or was worth the disruption caused with
Segura remains to be seen. Personally, I'd have arranged the deck chairs differently and promoted the
more experienced Segura and then given Marsh the opportunity to work together with Segura.

Maybe Brendan didn't feel he had anything he could teach Segura

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #157 on: August 23, 2012, 07:34:33 PM »
Here we go again:

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/08/23/3324361/fulham-make-official-complaint-about-rodgers-pursuit-of

I mean whatever about his footballing know how, I just don't feel that BR is
an authoritative enough personality to manage the club at this current time.
He fills the young up and coming coach profile but will lack real authority and
credibility, both among the star players and media, until he actually wins things.

More swept along by the tide instead of parting the Red Sea. :(

Im actually starting to get a bit defensive for BR. In the last day or two Ive taken a look at some of our rivals sites, the likes of Newcastle, Fulham, Everton. They are all laying into Rodgers, some claiming hes definitely going to be the first PL manager to get the bullet. Others were castigating him for the handling of the Carroll deal or the fact that hes upset Fulham.

The Fulham complaint is apparently over comments he made over a month ago. Its actually apparently over the following which was said at a press conference ;

“Clint is a player we've inquired about, it is as simple as that,” Rodgers said. “Ian Ayre, our managing director, has spoken with the club to see what the position is. That is where we're at. He's a very talented player but we don't like to talk about other clubs' players.”

I dont personally see a whole lot wrong with that aside from the fact hes talking business publicly instead of wrapping up deals and then doing the talking. The likes of Fergie has said a whole lot more over the years and Ive never seen United complained to the FA. Likewise Harry used to shoot his mouth off regularly. If Rodgers is to be punished then I hope it sets a precedent. 

I think there is a snowball of abuse starting to build up behind Rodgers. I can understand Liverpool fans voicing their concerns or having their say but its external influences attempting to pour petrol on the flames and attempting to pile pressure on Rodgers that I have issue with.

This isnt at all directed at you Ed just in case it sounds like it is. I agree with alot of your concerns about Rodgers but listening to some of the abuse hes receiving on every other site Ive been on makes me hope he cant kickstart our season soon even more.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #158 on: August 23, 2012, 08:12:29 PM »
Im actually starting to get a bit defensive for BR. In the last day or two Ive taken a look at some of our rivals sites, the likes of Newcastle, Fulham, Everton. They are all laying into Rodgers, some claiming hes definitely going to be the first PL manager to get the bullet. Others were castigating him for the handling of the Carroll deal or the fact that hes upset Fulham.

The Fulham complaint is apparently over comments he made over a month ago. Its actually apparently over the following which was said at a press conference ;

“Clint is a player we've inquired about, it is as simple as that,” Rodgers said. “Ian Ayre, our managing director, has spoken with the club to see what the position is. That is where we're at. He's a very talented player but we don't like to talk about other clubs' players.”

I dont personally see a whole lot wrong with that aside from the fact hes talking business publicly instead of wrapping up deals and then doing the talking. The likes of Fergie has said a whole lot more over the years and Ive never seen United complained to the FA. Likewise Harry used to shoot his mouth off regularly. If Rodgers is to be punished then I hope it sets a precedent. 

I think there is a snowball of abuse starting to build up behind Rodgers. I can understand Liverpool fans voicing their concerns or having their say but its external influences attempting to pour petrol on the flames and attempting to pile pressure on Rodgers that I have issue with.

This isnt at all directed at you Ed just in case it sounds like it is. I agree with alot of your concerns about Rodgers but listening to some of the abuse hes receiving on every other site Ive been on makes me hope he cant kickstart our season soon even more.
Surprised to see that it's any of other fans business who the manager of LFC is? No doubt they
become interested via articles/influences in the media. The grand theatre of the Premier League
orchestrated by Sky, newspapers desperate for circulation and websites hungry for hits. Twitter
is also very good for frenzies and mobs of baying, ill-informed reactionaries :)

From what I've seen and heard, I've yet to warm to the gaffer but wasn't thinking of judging his suitability
for the gig until I'd seen about 50 games (because in reality sacking the manager isn't an option!). Unfortunately,
bitching, moaning and venting about him may continue until he gets the basics right  :)

Transfers and managers aren't even the priority for me it's the other appointments/sackings that I've become
concerned about and a certain prevarication by the owners over the stadium issue. Tbh, my fears would be
allayed if they removed Ayre from his role and gave the captaincy to someone who represents the future of the
club. Then I could just relax and watch the footie  :)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #159 on: August 23, 2012, 10:58:02 PM »
“Clint is a player we've inquired about, it is as simple as that,” Rodgers said. “Ian Ayre, our managing director, has spoken with the club to see what the position is. That is where we're at. He's a very talented player but we don't like to talk about other clubs' players.”


It's why no bid went in - the fee we were quoted was too high.  It's not our fault that we were ask to pay what we thought was a too high a price. That happens all the time. Dempsey has taken it on himself to decide he wants to move to Anfield. Tom Werner's answer was very poorly worded and NESN's article was an embarrassment for them but makes us guilty by association through our owners.

Rodgers' answer was as misguided and unguarded as Werner's. All Rodgers should have said was 'he's a Fulham player, therefore I have no wish to discuss him.

They both did a 'Arry. All that was missing was a wound down car window.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #160 on: August 23, 2012, 11:49:23 PM »
Surprised to see that it's any of other fans business who the manager of LFC is? No doubt they
become interested via articles/influences in the media. The grand theatre of the Premier League
orchestrated by Sky, newspapers desperate for circulation and websites hungry for hits. Twitter
is also very good for frenzies and mobs of baying, ill-informed reactionaries :)

To be honest Im surprised by the anti Liverpool sentiment out there at the moment. There are alot of fans of more neutral clubs that have an opinion on ourselves and our manager now.

From what I've seen and heard, I've yet to warm to the gaffer but wasn't thinking of judging his suitability
for the gig until I'd seen about 50 games (because in reality sacking the manager isn't an option!). Unfortunately,
bitching, moaning and venting about him may continue until he gets the basics right  :)

I cant say I havent warmed to rodgers yet but the jurys out whether hes the real deal or a complete bluffer. Agreed he needs to be given 50 games and more to see if hes up to it. In fairness to him hes got a huge job on his hands, with the current squad Im not sure theres many managers that could do a whole lot of good without a major overhaul. My main gripe about Rodgers so far is that he talks too much. He initially said he wouldnt do any business in public but he hasnt stuck to his word.


Transfers and managers aren't even the priority for me it's the other appointments/sackings that I've become
concerned about and a certain prevarication by the owners over the stadium issue. Tbh, my fears would be
allayed if they removed Ayre from his role and gave the captaincy to someone who represents the future of the
club. Then I could just relax and watch the footie  :)

I said in a post a few days ago Ive started to get the vibe from the owners that I had under Hicks and Gillett. I know its a very different situation considering we are out of debt but after the H&G initial splurge on players along with all the talk of a spade in the ground within 60 days things started to go downhill pretty quickly. It may be not as bleak an outlook but I fear the American owners are starting to realise the scale of the job needed to make us successful again and Im no longer sure they are 100% fully committed if FFP cant be enforced.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #161 on: August 23, 2012, 11:51:25 PM »
It's why no bid went in - the fee we were quoted was too high.  It's not our fault that we were ask to pay what we thought was a too high a price. That happens all the time. Dempsey has taken it on himself to decide he wants to move to Anfield. Tom Werner's answer was very poorly worded and NESN's article was an embarrassment for them but makes us guilty by association through our owners.

Rodgers' answer was as misguided and unguarded as Werner's. All Rodgers should have said was 'he's a Fulham player, therefore I have no wish to discuss him.

They both did a 'Arry. All that was missing was a wound down car window.

The website error was a farce. Someone should have lost their job over that.

Agreed Rodgers should have played the say nothing card but hes easily coaxed into talking.

As for Arry  ;D, he'll be missed on transfer deadline day alright.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #162 on: August 24, 2012, 12:11:22 AM »
Agreed Rodgers should have played the say nothing card but hes easily coaxed into talking.

It's a touch worrying to be honest isn't it Juan. Not sure whether it's naivity, or the curse of modern times where everyone either is or wants to be a celebrity. There's so many things needing rebuilding and one of them is the quiet, respectful way we always carried out transfers.

Rodgers needs to issue a caveat at the beginning of a press conference that no question will be answered about another club's player and these type of questions will be frowned upon and the questioner will be treated in a less than favourable way.
The media can have it's story once there is actually one to write.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #163 on: August 24, 2012, 12:51:19 PM »
To be honest Im surprised by the anti Liverpool sentiment out there at the moment. There are alot of fans of more neutral clubs that have an opinion on ourselves and our manager now.
Yeah, I've noticed that alright, which is precisely why I'd prefer a
quiet season with talking on the pitch. They shut up pretty quickly
when we give them nothing to talk about except are ability to get
results in football matches.

My main gripe about Rodgers so far is that he talks too much.
& he'd better shut up about Sterling too. Play expectations down majorly there imo.

I said in a post a few days ago Ive started to get the vibe from the owners that I had under Hicks and Gillett. I know its a very different situation considering we are out of debt but after the H&G initial splurge on players along with all the talk of a spade in the ground within 60 days things started to go downhill pretty quickly. It may be not as bleak an outlook but I fear the American owners are starting to realise the scale of the job needed to make us successful again and Im no longer sure they are 100% fully committed if FFP cant be enforced.
A cross between H&G and Lerner. They should, imo, have just installed someone with credibility
to run the club. There are to-dos with the vacancies left by Brukner, Comolli and Segura + nada on
the stadium. On the other hand they've scouted the City scouts :) (but they're on gardening leave?)
sorted out the Warrior contract. Maybe I'm impatient but they're not as dynamic and sure-footed as I
expected and when the fall back is just words.

I suppose I'm just waiting for a big statement of intent from them and surely that must be an
announcement on the stadium, in the meantime that yes man Ayre just doesn't inspire confidence. :)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #164 on: August 24, 2012, 04:18:06 PM »
Ed, not too fussed about the amount of time the stadium decision is taking as it's a massive financial risk for a new stadium, and it's no good having a half full new stadium because the team is so poor and there's no cash to change it.
A refurb job is also full of problems. Aquiring the land then satisfying all the planning requirements and residents concerns is an incredibly difficult and complex process, and there's no point in rushing a decision for the sake of it.

It's the lack of any leadership from and the required knowledge on the board and the feeling of us having a budget administration, not fit for purpose is impossible to throw. Whether Comolli gets replaced in an alternative form as Ayre suggested in the immediate aftermath of Rodgers' appointment will be seen over time though I have my doubts we'll see anything.

Inexperience is rife, in both the football management and overall management at the club. That needs addressing but FSG don't seem to have the insight to realise it or the desire to invest in appointing the neccessary people. I hope we see a massive overhaul in all levels of scouting. That is going to be imperative if we are to stand any chance of making up for the lack of financial muscle.
Hopefully once the ex-Man City lot finish attending the flowers and get settled in at the club, they will start the massive changes that are required.
Again, it needs football people to do this and I hope FSG leave those who have been appointed to get on with it and their only involvement is to provide whatever resources are required. Any investment made should be saved many times over if the correct changes are made and the required structures put in place.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.