October 23, 2019, 04:19:46 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 271619 times)

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #285 on: September 02, 2012, 11:11:01 PM »
Dalglish's spending spree is really killing us. It feels like Rodgers is being made to pay a heavier price for it than he should.

FSG seem to refuse to see their part in it. For example, they allowed a caretaker manager to decide how the Torres money was spent AND in the last few hours of the January window.
THEY chose Dalglish and allowed the different sums of money to be spent on the various players. In a normal setup the board will stay decide the value they place on a player and the manager has to work within and accept that valuation.
Their lack of knowledge is no excuse. They didn't suddenly realise in January 2011 they didn't  know enough, they knew from before they bought the club, but didn't equip themselves with the relevant team around them to make up for that lack of knowledge.
They obviously didn't know the criteria required for the CEO/MD position otherwise they wouldn't have 'settled for' Ayre. 

Completely agreed Tes, no matter who has f*cked up at the club FSG can blame nobody but themselves. They own and run the club. If they arent monitoring what is going on closely enough then what can they expect. Why hasnt one of them moved permanently to Liverpool for the first 3 years to ensure not only are they getting an understanding of the club and how football is run but also to iron out any problems and make sure they run a tight ship. How can we blame Damian Comolli for spending 35 million for Andy Carroll when the guy was probably sitting there with a blank cheque being told to bid as much as he wanted.

So back to Rodgers. Carroll didn't suit, that's Rodgers call. Just because the previous manager paid £35M for him is meaningless within the structure of a football team.
They had to ensure that funds were available for him to make some fundamental changes. He can do some wage bill trimming naturally through getting rid of players deemed surplus anyway.
They also chose to get rid of Dalglish after one season, instead of giving him a another season to get his players firing as a team. This Summer could have been Dalglish's penance, clearing out the surplus, getting down the wage bill he helped swell.
Instead, all this has been put on Rodgers' shoulders with little room for him to manoeuvre in terms of shaping the team the way he needed to.
So now we're stuck someway in between Dalglish's team and the basic structure of a team the way Rodgers wants it.

I think what he needs to do is understand that he can't change both the system and the players all in one season over two (possibly) windows.
Aim to get the team back to playing the way they were in Dalglish's half season. They showed they could and whilst some players have changed the bulk are still there. That is an achievable target to start with. Then as other players are sold to be replaced with the type Rodgers wants the transition moves on further.
He should have aimed for a process of evolution in the way we played, the rate of which is determined by the purchases and sales he can make in any given window. 

Hopefully he'll re-evaluate and make the neccessary changes to get the season going and not be too proud to see it is the thing that is necessary. It's not about being right or wrong in principal or theory, but about what's right for the team and club.

I think Rodgers has to take some blame for this transfer window. As I said in a post above Im not calling for his head or the likes. He needs to be given years to get things right. But even if we got the two players he wanted in on transfer deadline day the squad would have still been too thin. The more I think about it the more thats on his head. He was left shouldering the burden of missing Dempsey and Sturridge but even with those two the squad wasnt up to it. How did it take Rodgers up until the last few days to see that?

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #286 on: September 02, 2012, 11:21:32 PM »
Juan, I didn't dare utter the word *relegation* in the close-season, but I danced around it. 

I feared Rodgers might well come unstuck by Christmas (mentioned in many of my previous posts).

If we play to our potential, we are 8th to 12th material.   If we cannot arrest a slump, however, which is often a trait of young inexperienced managers, then a relegation battle could be a reality.

If Rodgers cannot arrest this run of results, have no doubt, the yanks will dispense with him, sooner rather than later.  Remember, they have form when it comes to acting quickly and acting without much compassion.

If we get any run of injuries a dog fight could become a reality.

I dont see any point in changing manager, I believe Rodgers will have alot to offer but unless hes given the resources we will continue to slide as a club.

With four competitions I fear that until we get to another transfer window we can no longer afford to play any of our first teamers in anything but the league. We have to wrap the first team players we do have in cotton wool and save them for the league. We cant risk them for anything else.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #287 on: September 02, 2012, 11:37:55 PM »
But even if we got the two players he wanted in on transfer deadline day the squad would have still been too thin. The more I think about it the more thats on his head. He was left shouldering the burden of missing Dempsey and Sturridge but even with those two the squad wasnt up to it. How did it take Rodgers up until the last few days to see that?

Is right but did we ever think he'd get the squad he wanted in place in one window? I don't think getting both Dempsey and Sturridge in would've guaranteed 4th but it would've guaranteed the start of the transition process which will now be put on hold for a year and this is where I become worried.

That will be my main conclusion from the transfer window debacle. I'm glad everybody, bar one person, in this place both realise and are willing to give him time to turn things around.

 

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Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #288 on: September 03, 2012, 12:10:48 AM »
Is right but did we ever think he'd get the squad he wanted in place in one window? I don't think getting both Dempsey and Sturridge in would've guaranteed 4th but it would've guaranteed the start of the transition process which will now be put on hold for a year and this is where I become worried.

That will be my main conclusion from the transfer window debacle. I'm glad everybody, bar one person, in this place both realise and are willing to give him time to turn things around.

He could never have sorted our team in one transfer window. I think he possibly got carried away on the clear out side of things without replacing many of the players he was getting rid of. He should have realised that for 4 competitions he was leaving the squad threadbare irrespective of a couple of players coming and going in the last week.  Whether the departures were his call or not we dont know and it seems he wasnt given a healthy transfer budget. I just think with a bit of foresight he should have guesstimated that he could land himself in the scenario hes in. Hes had all summer to work out whats required to challenge on four fronts. The fact that hes failed to do that properly for me is his first major error of judgement. As you say it now could cost us our season.

But Rodgers deserves all the time he needs to get things right. For me the ownership is whats wrong with this club. Like Hicks an Gillett did FSG are mis managing the club. It may be in a different way but its mis management none the less and I think the next 10 months will tell alot about whether they plan to stay here long term or sell the club on to someone else.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #289 on: September 03, 2012, 02:32:59 AM »
He could never have sorted our team in one transfer window. I think he possibly got carried away on the clear out side of things without replacing many of the players he was getting rid of. He should have realised that for 4 competitions he was leaving the squad threadbare irrespective of a couple of players coming and going in the last week.  Whether the departures were his call or not we dont know and it seems he wasnt given a healthy transfer budget. I just think with a bit of foresight he should have guesstimated that he could land himself in the scenario hes in. Hes had all summer to work out whats required to challenge on four fronts. The fact that hes failed to do that properly for me is his first major error of judgement. As you say it now could cost us our season.
I think if he'd spent the Summer saying nothing and focusing on his priorities LFC might
have been better served. There's no point in him going blah, blah all the time and then
Ooops there's a major hole in the team!

An experienced DoF would have helped him get the basics right and possibly brought
along a list of alternative options for up front from the continent.

I'm certainly not going down the route that Clint Dempsey was going to be our season's saviour!
(c'mon, we didn't even really want him, did we?). I also don't understand why he was throwing
players away left right and centre in the final few days if we were getting nothing in??

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #290 on: September 03, 2012, 04:12:48 AM »
Maxi, Kuyt, Carroll and Bellamy out; four attacking players gone and only two — the relatively unknown Fabio Borini and the yet to be seen Oussama Assaidi — to replace them.

well played brendan and ian.  Rocket scientists, the pair of ye.   Have ye been in the football industry long?
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #291 on: September 03, 2012, 05:31:08 AM »
Rodgers said: "The goals we conceded had nothing to do with systems or style, or the tactical element. We gave the ball away for the first goal and didn't do well enough to stop the shot. The second goal, we had enough bodies behind the ball to defend the goal. These are the hard yards you have to put in early on but I wouldn't change it for anything."
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #292 on: September 03, 2012, 05:33:10 AM »
Rodgers reckons: "They (the owners) made the change and  made a big commitment to have me here for the longer term."

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #293 on: September 03, 2012, 05:37:10 AM »
"I have a group of people I worked well with and the owners have been very up front and honest with me."

you've only been at the club ten minutes.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Gurdeep

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Season 2012-2013
« Reply #294 on: September 03, 2012, 06:54:09 AM »
I feel sorry for Brendan as he'll never get a fair chance to prove his worth at this club. He must feel badly sodomized.

That's how I felt about Rafa.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #295 on: September 03, 2012, 08:04:28 AM »
That's how I felt about Rafa.

How so? He got 6 seasons and some 80  transfers to build a competetive side. Fair enough the last 2 seasons G & H wasn't much help altho they, for instance, allowed him to splash out 18 million on an injured player who didn't play regurarly for over 12 months before joining us. I would say Rafa got pretty much what he pointed at given the club's financial constraints. He said I don't want Parry, and they got rid of Parry. He said I want sole control over all footy matters, and they gave him sole control. Rafa lost it and I'm glad he's gone. On more than one ocassion he put his own ego before the club's interest and you could argue his Fergie rant cost us our best shot at the titel. Hell yes, I'm glad he's gone. He got more time, money and space to experiment than any manager in the post-Paisley era and he failed big time. This RAWK-myth his shortcomings are all down to the mismanagement of G & H is just that - a myth. His team played static, predictable and one-dimensional football the last 2 years he was in charge. You could tell the players didn't enjoy their footy and I thought were just as far away from anything resembling the "Liverpool way" as we were under Houllier.

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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #296 on: September 03, 2012, 08:09:24 AM »
"I have a group of people I worked well with and the owners have been very up front and honest with me."

you've only been at the club ten minutes.

Not that that fact would have you reflect on how fair, plausible or fruitful it is to assess and evaluate him as manager. Fair enough you don't like him, you will never accept any manager but your phoney king Rafa. Fair enough if you don't support our manager. Fair enough you're not willing to give him a fair chance to prove himself not good enough. But do you really have to actively talk him down and belittle everything he does or say?

Rafa's gone and he's never coming back, thank God for that. You should try to accept that FACT rather than pissing on the current manager of this once great club.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 08:15:08 AM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #297 on: September 03, 2012, 08:30:11 AM »
I think if he'd spent the Summer saying nothing and focusing on his priorities LFC might
have been better served. There's no point in him going blah, blah all the time and then
Ooops there's a major hole in the team!

I get your point Ed mate. You don't like him talking so much. But shouldn't you try to come to terms with the fact that that seems to be part of his personality and no matter what you or anybody else thinks of this it ain't gonna change. I know your sentiments now tho.
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Offline Gurdeep

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #298 on: September 03, 2012, 10:25:31 AM »
How so? He got 6 seasons and some 80  transfers to build a competetive side.

He was not without faults Martin, but he knew what this club was all about.  Didn't need a 180 page dossier to explain himself and his direction. 

Name me one season where Rafa had over £100M to spend in the summer transfer window?  Trust me, if he had that kind of money we wouldn't have bought the kind of $hite Kenny did last year!  Fact.

Funny, but sometimes I think to myself is'nt ironic how one of our greatest ever players ended up being the guy hitting the final nail in our coffin.
It's only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realize that there is always a way to solve a problem without using violence.!

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #299 on: September 03, 2012, 10:48:50 AM »
He was not without faults Martin, but he knew what this club was all about.  Didn't need a 180 page dossier to explain himself and his direction. 

Name me one season where Rafa had over £100M to spend in the summer transfer window?  Trust me, if he had that kind of money we wouldn't have bought the kind of $hite Kenny did last year!  Fact.

Funny, but sometimes I think to myself is'nt ironic how one of our greatest ever players ended up being the guy hitting the final nail in our coffin.

I see where you come from mate but I simply do not agree with you as  I found Rafa mediocre at best in the transer market. Didn't catch you on that final sentence???
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