December 13, 2019, 10:07:04 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 291241 times)

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #420 on: September 24, 2012, 09:39:19 AM »
There's been so much made both in the media and by Rodgers (either refers to or infers) of 'his' style and type of football, but just 'what' is it that apparently makes it both so 'different' and 'stand out'?

I ask, because I really can't see, from everything I've read and heard, what and where these differences are that make it apparently so 'unique' and rarely seen before.

I'm not being sarky, I'm being genuine.   

I can see it in the way we move, in the way the players actually look like they're enjoying their game (which was not the case for years on years during GH and Rafa). I can see it in the tempo with which we move the ball.

I just have this feeling though Tes, that IF Skrtel had not passed that stupid ball, or if we'd enjoyed just a bit of luck with the bounce in the 7th minute yesterday and Halsey hadn't been hellbent on winning the game for United I'm sure you would've seen it too. I seriously and honestly do not understand the reaction among so many fans. The club's been run in a spectacularly poor fashion for over a decade and it needs fixing at every level. The way I see it progress can be seen at a level I didn't expect until December.

I'm not blaming it on bad although it would be fair to say we had our fair share of it thus far. The important thing is that we learn to capitalise on the great footy we're playing.

All in all a team that plays this well is bound to get rewarded sooner rather than later. As I wrote elsewhere, and most probably in contradiction to what most others feel, I have for the first time in over a decade the feeling we could go on a 6-7 game winning streak. That's something we only managed once in Rafas 6 years (easy there Ed I actually checked that one).

As for progress, I think it's about implementing a structure, an identity, an idea that the players understand and are being loyal to. Next season I think we could demand more in terms of where we finish but this season was, in all reality, always about getting the club to pull in one direction at every level not finishing in this or that position. At least that's the way I see it. I know for a fact this will be the best season in a very long time.

Keep the faith!
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #421 on: September 24, 2012, 11:41:08 AM »
I walked after the penalty gift to united...it was obvious we had no chance to win with the ref in that frame of mind...i think he wanted to be the star while hillsborough, evra/suarez gate took second place...his decisions became a joke..

having said that...if suarez spent more time on his feet he might get some more decisions...
the game was crying out for a little bit of experience from creative players...the insanity of letting maxi, kuyt and bellamy was all too relevant yesterday...
seeing suso play was excellent to see..
i saw nice passing yesterday which to be fair to rodgers it beats most of last season when we couldn't pass the ball for toffee...
nice passing but no end result...borini was useless in that position so ffs play him is his preferred strikers role...if he can score 2 against inter milan then he can do it on the big stage...but we have to use him correctly...
there's no way united will win the league...they'll be lucky with 4th...the only thing that may get them higher is referees ...


Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #422 on: September 24, 2012, 11:45:36 AM »
I walked after the penalty gift to united...it was obvious we had no chance to win with the ref in that frame of mind...i think he wanted to be the star while hillsborough, evra/suarez gate took second place...his decisions became a joke..

having said that...if suarez spent more time on his feet he might get some more decisions...
the game was crying out for a little bit of experience from creative players...the insanity of letting maxi, kuyt and bellamy was all too relevant yesterday...
seeing suso play was excellent to see..
i saw nice passing yesterday which to be fair to rodgers it beats most of last season when we couldn't pass the ball for toffee...
nice passing but no end result...borini was useless in that position so ffs play him is his preferred strikers role...if he can score 2 against inter milan then he can do it on the big stage...but we have to use him correctly...
there's no way united will win the league...they'll be lucky with 4th...the only thing that may get them higher is referees ...

Hmm, I actually thought Borini had his best game thus far with nice runs and hard work ethic creating space and help keeping our tempo high. But I can see where you come from suggesting he should be played in the center. Agree, the mancs will never win it tho Webb and Halsey may think differently.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #423 on: September 24, 2012, 04:07:09 PM »
I walked after the penalty gift to united...it was obvious we had no chance to win with the ref in that frame of mind.

if suarez spent more time on his feet he might get some more decisions...

the game was crying out for a little bit of experience from creative players...the insanity of letting maxi, kuyt and bellamy was all too relevant yesterday...

nice passing but no end result...borini was useless in that position so ffs play him in his preferred strikers role..

agreed.

we gave our quality attackers away, and replaced them with bog standard finishers.

unless we can turn possession into goals, we are sunk.

yes, if suarez had not done a swan lake with his head movement, we would have had a penalty. Well i say that, but who knows what Halsey would have done.  I can imagine the odd decision going against us, but when ALL THE DECISIONS go against us, I then start to wonder WTF is going on here.  And I REALLY mean that. 

Borini is wasted out wide.  If he was played more central, we would finally see if he was up to much (or merely another bad buy).  But we need to know, sooner rather than later.

And Suarez needs to be told, in no uncertain terms, that he is a cr.ap finisher and to fecking pass the ball to better placed colleagues, and stop squandering ALL OUR OPPORTUNITIES.



 
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #424 on: September 25, 2012, 12:42:59 AM »
Well said Alan Hansen!

"No matter how you dress it up, two points out of a possible 15 includes no good or positive news."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9561705/Liverpool-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-may-need-to-adapt-as-Manchester-United-show-how-to-grind-out-win.html

It's strange fans appear to be so willing to formulate hypotheses that
everything is going to be alright based on nothing. I recognise that
we've had a poor start and am not particularly surprised by it but think we'd
want to start putting some points on the board and forget about it being
great throwing points away and all the misfortune!

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #425 on: September 25, 2012, 05:38:50 AM »

It's strange fans appear to be so willing to formulate hypotheses that
everything is going to be alright based on nothing. I recognise that
we've had a poor start and am not particularly surprised by it but think we'd
want to start putting some points on the board and forget about it being
great throwing points away and all the misfortune!

The next game against Norwich is a massive one...we usually do well against the top 4 (remember when we were part of that?) and come unstuck against smaller teams...with kelly and agger out for a good while...and our lack of spark up front it should be interesting...
Up until now, we've had the 'transition stage' and the 'tough games against us' routine and so the crowd and fans have been very understanding but if we fail to get a full 3 points and at least 7 in the next 3 games, we'll be firmly rooted in the relegation zone and that in itself will bring murmurs of discontent...

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #426 on: September 25, 2012, 09:13:17 AM »
The next game against Norwich is a massive one...we usually do well against the top 4 (remember when we were part of that?) and come unstuck against smaller teams...with kelly and agger out for a good while...and our lack of spark up front it should be interesting...
Up until now, we've had the 'transition stage' and the 'tough games against us' routine and so the crowd and fans have been very understanding but if we fail to get a full 3 points and at least 7 in the next 3 games, we'll be firmly rooted in the relegation zone and that in itself will bring murmurs of discontent...

While the same applies to Norwich which makes this a tougher task than it may seem on paper. I agree with you tho. The real test, IMHO, will be Stoke at home. If we can break them down in style and seal a win you could argue some deep changes is about to take place as we've struggled against them at home recently. Well in fact, so did Chelsea on Saturday but escaped somewhat luckily with 3 points and no sending off despite Luiz launching a two-foot challenge much worse than Shelvey's.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #427 on: September 26, 2012, 01:01:48 PM »
We're not the only ones who seem to see there is a different way of refereeing where the Mancs are involved:

Martinez hit with FA charge

Roberto Martinez has been charged by the FA for comments made about the referee following Wigan's defeat at Manchester United on September 15.

The Latics lost 4-0 at Old Trafford during which he was unhappy about a penalty awarded to the hosts as well as a Danny Welbeck challenge on Franco di Santo which he felt warranted a red card.

After the match, Martinez said: "I have come to United three times before today and for whatever reason we don't seem to be measured in the same manner as the team at home.

"Today the penalty is as bad a decision as you are going to see in the Premier League.

"In many ways, you feel as though you are fighting against a mountain.

"There were tackles flying around that if they had been the other way round there would have been a couple of red cards."


http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8111566/Martinez-hit-with-FA-charge

He could quite easily be talking about our game on Sunday. In fact it seems disturbingly familiar and repetitive.

Maybe managers should do what Taggart does. Come out in press conferences the week they are due to play the Mancs and 'talk' about how they never a get a penalty but under far lesser challenges the Mancs 'always' do. Also talk about Scholes 'tackling' and the lack of red cards and also how it takes a greater amount of foul play from any Manc player before a card of any sort is produced.

Apart from those like Fat Sham, who hang on Taggart's every word, there should be a concerted campaign by each manager in their press conferences in the days leading up to a game against the Mancs, but don't do it in any way that can be twisted into a 'rant' by the media. Do it as 'throwaway' comments like Taggart does and if it's picked up on it by the reporters in the press conference (which it will be), refuse to discuss it further, but again in a calm, almost dismissive, way.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #428 on: September 26, 2012, 01:09:34 PM »
We've played 5 league games.  In 40% of those games (2/5), Brendan has seen a man get sent off; not only that, but sent off during a time when the outcome was still undecided.  Those two red cards cost us at least two points, if not more.  Brendan has seen his side dominate both Manchester sides and come away with only a single point.  Within all of that, the supporters have seen a team in transition.  Week one against West Brom, Agger was sent off.  The rest of the team hung thier heads and quit on the manager and took a hiding.  One month later against one of the best teams in the league, we went to 10 men, but fought our asses off.  A one-eyed supporter could see the difference in attitude over that month.  We have major problems with the squad right now:  depth (with injuries), youth, lack of scorer, etc.  But one of the problems is not the man in the suit on the touchline.

He has said and done all of the right things.  That is not to say he hasnt made some small errors, every man will.  But his attitude toward the club is right.  His attitude toward the players is right.  His attitude toward the supporters is right.  He uses substitutions as tactical weapons (how many times have we asked for this).  He has placed his trust in his players, young and old.  At times they have let him down, but I feel over the course of the season, his trust in this club will be repaid.

I dont know where we will end up in the table at the end of season.  I do know that there are still some areas that need to be addressed, but the man in the Red and White striped tie is not one of them, at least for me.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #429 on: September 26, 2012, 02:20:12 PM »
We've played 5 league games.  In 40% of those games (2/5), Brendan has seen a man get sent off; not only that, but sent off during a time when the outcome was still undecided.  Those two red cards cost us at least two points, if not more.  Brendan has seen his side dominate both Manchester sides and come away with only a single point.  Within all of that, the supporters have seen a team in transition.  Week one against West Brom, Agger was sent off.  The rest of the team hung thier heads and quit on the manager and took a hiding.  One month later against one of the best teams in the league, we went to 10 men, but fought our asses off.  A one-eyed supporter could see the difference in attitude over that month.  We have major problems with the squad right now:  depth (with injuries), youth, lack of scorer, etc.  But one of the problems is not the man in the suit on the touchline.

He has said and done all of the right things.  That is not to say he hasnt made some small errors, every man will.  But his attitude toward the club is right.  His attitude toward the players is right.  His attitude toward the supporters is right.  He uses substitutions as tactical weapons (how many times have we asked for this).  He has placed his trust in his players, young and old.  At times they have let him down, but I feel over the course of the season, his trust in this club will be repaid.

I dont know where we will end up in the table at the end of season.  I do know that there are still some areas that need to be addressed, but the man in the Red and White striped tie is not one of them, at least for me.

I'm gonna frame that post. Brilliantly put Ed mate. I would also like to repeat my mantra that a team that outplays both Man C and Man U will come good sooner rather than later. It's incredible how fans can be so obsessed with the table after a mere 5 games. That's unheard of really. Instead, and as you point out, poor decision making and a couple of individual mistakes, however horrendous, cost us at least 5 points. To be frank, I'd much rather take 2 points and all the positives that's there to see, than 7 games of Dalglishesque/Rafaesqu footy with no hope of long-term improvement and development.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #430 on: September 26, 2012, 02:58:45 PM »
Some of us didn't want Dalglish appointing before he was appointed and we spelt out our reasons clearly, so the converted are hearing what they already believe.

As for comparisons with Benitez, we're on our third manager since he left so I'm not sure why he is brought up all the time when there's a 'point to be proven'.

Maybe it's a generation thing or it may depend where each of us comes from, but some of us are from the generation and/or it's a regional thing where we prefer action to words and feel uncomfortable when there is so much 'talking' being done, when we'd prefer heads to be kept down, mouths rested and let's see the substance materialise rather than keep hearing words.

Compliments have been paid to Rodgers where people think they're due (look in the league cup thread, there's one there re the chances given to young lads) but whether we like it or not we keep being told (and see it defined by actions) that it's 'a results based business' so we'll see what happens.

As for the table after 5 games etc, there didn't ever used to be one published until 6 or 7 games had been played, but it's another modern idiom we have to contend with now. It's not the table as such, as nothing happens to your team based on where they are after 5 games (no trophies handed out or relegation axes wielded) but people are bound to be concerned by the lack of points picked up. Irrespective of 'anything' else and cases can be made one way or the other, it's only the points that actually 'count'. Lost points cost positions and ultimately cash and sometimes status.

Don't confuse a lack of a constant stream of positive words or sentiments pro the manager for a lack of desire to see the guy succeed. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #431 on: September 26, 2012, 03:35:33 PM »
Some of us didn't want Dalglish appointing before he was appointed and we spelt out our reasons clearly, so the converted are hearing what they already believe.

As for comparisons with Benitez, we're on our third manager since he left so I'm not sure why he is brought up all the time when there's a 'point to be proven'.

Maybe it's a generation thing or it may depend where each of us comes from, but some of us are from the generation and/or it's a regional thing where we prefer action to words and feel uncomfortable when there is so much 'talking' being done, when we'd prefer heads to be kept down, mouths rested and let's see the substance materialise rather than keep hearing words.

Compliments have been paid to Rodgers where people think they're due (look in the league cup thread, there's one there re the chances given to young lads) but whether we like it or not we keep being told (and see it defined by actions) that it's 'a results based business' so we'll see what happens.

As for the table after 5 games etc, there didn't ever used to be one published until 6 or 7 games had been played, but it's another modern idiom we have to contend with now. It's not the table as such, as nothing happens to your team based on where they are after 5 games (no trophies handed out or relegation axes wielded) but people are bound to be concerned by the lack of points picked up. Irrespective of 'anything' else and cases can be made one way or the other, it's only the points that actually 'count'. Lost points cost positions and ultimately cash and sometimes status.

Don't confuse a lack of a constant stream of positive words or sentiments pro the manager for a lack of desire to see the guy succeed. 
Well put Tes!

I'd like to add the hallmark of a good team is one that plays bad and wins,
we appear to be going down some route where it's glorious to play well and
lose/draw.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #432 on: September 26, 2012, 04:52:19 PM »
Well put Tes!

I'd like to add the hallmark of a good team is one that plays bad and wins,
we appear to be going down some route where it's glorious to play well and
lose/draw.

That axiom Ed, however, and I think you know it pretty damn well, most often apply to mature, experienced and "finished" teams, hardly sides (and young at that) during their first steps towards implementing a new style of play with a new manager at the helm.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #433 on: September 26, 2012, 05:14:55 PM »
That axiom Ed, however, and I think you know it pretty damn well, most often apply to mature, experienced and "finished" teams, hardly sides (and young at that) during their first steps towards implementing a new style of play with a new manager at the helm.
Maybe. Some people applauded the introduction of Suso. They point to his role
in the goal, a shot well saved, a beautiful through ball and a generally unruffled
performance. I balance the books by looking at his pass to Agger that led to their 2nd.

It's not a question of having a go at the youngster, he did well considering,
but I'm justified in questioning the motivation and judgement of the manager
in the circumstances. Sure, everyone wants to fall back on the refereeing performance,
but at the heart of what cost us the 3 points was a decision by the manager to
throw a vastly inexperienced player into a very important match?

I'm just saying is all. This is the same guy who let Andy Carroll go without having a
replacement lined up. There's a knock-on effect. Borini gets injured, throw Carroll on,
Ferdinand was struggling a bit with an injury and Johson & Kelly were marauding down
the flanks all afternoon.

Kelly                       Johnson
       Gerrard, Allen
  Suarez         Sterling     
             Carroll

I have no idea if that would have worked but it was an option before considering the Suso
move.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #434 on: September 26, 2012, 06:33:06 PM »
That axiom Ed, however, and I think you know it pretty damn well, most often apply to mature, experienced and "finished" teams, hardly sides (and young at that) during their first steps towards implementing a new style of play with a new manager at the helm.

Tes and myself have asked this question previously.......exactly what is our new style of play?

passing the ball to your colleague is not an original thought.

and the last time I checked, the league authorities were not awarding points for performance, or pass completion rates.

does rodgers philosophy involve alienating and then lending out our only recognised striker at the club?

does rodgers philosophy include letting a striker, who has played in World Cup and Champions League finals, leave for peanuts, to be replaced with a young Italian lad that could barely get a game for Chelsea, for nearly 11 million quid?

does rodgers philosophy involve us having our worst ever start to a league campaign in our 120 year history?

maybe this rebuilding exercise also involves us heading down to the championship?

but I am keen to know - beyond passing the ball to a colleague, what does our dugout supremo's philosophy involve?

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.