October 18, 2019, 03:48:15 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 268156 times)

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #450 on: October 01, 2012, 09:33:41 PM »
35 more points to go, and we should be safe.

hopefully we can keep Suarez fit and taking some of his chances.

Hehe. You conviniently forgot we scored 12 goals in our last 3 games. I'm not suggesting for one second our problems in front of goal is behind us but unlike you I'm willing to give cred were it's due and that includes Rafa.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #451 on: October 01, 2012, 09:44:03 PM »
Hehe. You conviniently forgot we scored 12 goals in our last 3 games. I'm not suggesting for one second our problems in front of goal is behind us but unlike you I'm willing to give cred were it's due and that includes Rafa.

on the contrary, I want every Liverpool boss to succeed (thus you will see me calling one or two of the last performances as "outstanding"). 

you on the otherhand Martin, have no respect at all, for what Rafa Benitez did for Liverpool FC. 

You mock, smear and ridicule his record. 
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #452 on: October 01, 2012, 09:46:44 PM »
Hehe. You conviniently forgot we scored 12 goals in our last 3 games.

Gaining us a net return of how many PL points? Stats and figures are something politicans hide behind. Martin, you're better than that.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #453 on: October 01, 2012, 10:05:04 PM »
Gaining us a net return of how many PL points?
Early days. Stoke's a good test next weekend.

I thought Norwich had enough chances of their own and the two goals
we conceded were disappointing. We beat 'em by 3 last season with a clean
sheet so.

There have been some encouraging signs with Sahin though, but the other kids
will make errors (& Skrtel & Reina it seems), so'll be waiting 'til the Everton game
to see how the progress is going.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #454 on: October 01, 2012, 10:32:07 PM »
Early days. Stoke's a good test next weekend.

Agreed. Having got our first PL win of the season and hopefully we'll keep our Europa League run going, Stoke will be a huge test of where we really are. We need to get our first PL home win and  Stoke are a tough proposition if they're on top of their game. We've got to learn to get past teams who come for a draw but we should consider not stopping Reina's natural instinct to deliver the ball quickly. Against teams that tend to 'park the bus' we need to take the opportunity to counter attack quickly from the few forays forward teams like that have, and try and catch them before they've set themselves defensively again.
With his pace and ability on the ball, Assaidi would seem a perfect outlet for Reina to aim for.

The thing that Rodgers will learn is that teams tend to give more space to the likes of Swansea and are prepared to take their chances with a more attacking outlook. Against the 'bigger' teams they play more defensively and look to contain, hoping to grind out a point. He's going to need to be a bit more 'flexible' in his approach than he could probably have been able to get away with at Swansea.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #455 on: October 02, 2012, 09:43:04 AM »
on the contrary, I want every Liverpool boss to succeed (thus you will see me calling one or two of the last performances as "outstanding"). 

you on the otherhand Martin, have no respect at all, for what Rafa Benitez did for Liverpool FC. 

You mock, smear and ridicule his record.

No, I don't, just the parts that deserves it. You know pretty damn well I've said time and again his first 2- 2.5 seasons he really had the club going forward but then, at least on the surface of it, it seems as the CL win got to his and his judgement got clouded. His stubborness set in despite costing us valuable points time and again, he chose, for no apparent reason, to ignite conflicts internally and externally.  Now, all this said to those, like you, who uncritically refused to realise that apart for one season we were slowly but steadily going backwards during Rafa. The problem people like you have is that you do not understand the qualitative difference between cup-success and PL-dito. He got 6 full seasons in the PL and when he had the chance to win it he decided, when he wasn't tinkering beyond belief resulting in draws at home to relegation candidates, to take on SAF in a slanging match which upset the squad and eventually cost us the very very slim hope we had to win it for the first time in nearly 2 decades. He gave us the CL and the Cup which was great, it seems as his restructruing of the Academy starts to pay off but ultimately he left a squad in decline, totally devoid of confidence and hapiness playing boring, predictable and uninspiring footy (yeah, yeah, yeah, I know about those 10 games in the spring of 2009 when everything was already out of our grasp. But what about the Fulham, West Ham, Hull draws in November/December when we could've got a grip of the title? Oh, that's right, he secured a point playing a well balanced side.).

He was a great manager, just not that great.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #456 on: October 02, 2012, 09:48:47 AM »
Gaining us a net return of how many PL points? Stats and figures are something politicans hide behind. Martin, you're better than that.

I don't think that's fair at all to be perfectly honest, Tes mate. First of all I clearly state in my post it's all about cred's where it's due an'all. Secondly, I had to listen to people on here moaning for weeks on end about our lack of goals. I merely pointed out that we scored 12 in our last 3. It may not represent a paradigm shift in how results will present itselves from here on come May 2013, but at least one could argue there's a slim possibility that when on form we have a playing system that may help us score goals. The problem is, we won't be in that form for the rest of the season, we'll need to "rest" in quite a few games and that's where you need a goalscorer that help you scrape out wins. Just trying to stay positive as I think there's more positives than negatives to take from this season and that's a feeling much welcomed, at least on my part.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #457 on: October 02, 2012, 11:28:12 AM »
Sorry, Martin, what I was meaning is there is a huge difference between the amount of goals scored, and what it actually achieved in reality. The stat looks good but it doesn't tell the true story and is unbalanced.

'12 goals in the last three games' sounds like a successful team. The reality is somewhat different in terms of PL points.

I just don't like stats being used to make a point which either only addressess part of the issue or is used to mask reallity.

It's frustrating that despite scoring 11 goals in our last three games (Young Boys 5, the Mancs 1, Norwich 5) it's still only brought us 3 points in the PL. It's terrific to see us scoring and it's enjoyable as a fan, but what I can't do (as a person) is let it hide the fact that we are still conceding too many goals. 7 goals in those same three games, to go along with WBA 3, Man City 2, Arsenal 2.

As we've yet to keep a clean sheet in the PL, and only one clean sheet in all competitions, we still (and goals scored isn't changing that) are conceding an alarming amount of goals per game, whilst we may have eased our scoring problems. Stoke will be a big test of any assertion that we have sorted the problem.

I don't wish to sound negative, however, I can't ignore the reality and as fans we need to balance things. We can't celebrate the goals scored whilst ignoring the goals conceded, likewise we can't point out the goals conceded without praising the goals scored.

It's why I say the Stoke game is a huge test. Have we really sorted our struggle to score goals? Stoke, who set up defensively at Anfield will test us. Can we still score when a team sets up so defensively?
Also, can we stop them scoring, especially from the set plays they invest a lot of time in, and from where a good percentage of their chances come from.

I enjoyed the Young Boys game and the Norwich game, the play, the goals etc, but they are in the past, and although it can be a cliche, it really is true that the next game is the only one that really counts.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #458 on: October 02, 2012, 12:42:55 PM »
Sorry, Martin, what I was meaning is there is a huge difference between the amount of goals scored, and what it actually achieved in reality. The stat looks good but it doesn't tell the true story and is unbalanced.

'12 goals in the last three games' sounds like a successful team. The reality is somewhat different in terms of PL points.

I just don't like stats being used to make a point which either only addressess part of the issue or is used to mask reallity.

It's frustrating that despite scoring 11 goals in our last three games (Young Boys 5, the Mancs 1, Norwich 5) it's still only brought us 3 points in the PL.

I was counting the Baggies game hence 12, so my bad. Lets say 13 in the last 4 then.  ;) Other than that I couldn't agree with you more about how frustrating it is when people slap you in the face with some unreflected and (most often) taken-out-of-context-stats. That wasn't my intention, however. I was merely pointing to the fact that despite the poor start to our season (pointswise) there could be some signs things might change sooner rather than later. For all I know we could be back to our huff'n puffin best against Stoke but we could also go on and put 2 past them with a clean sheet. We don't know yet so no major conclusions can be drawn at this stage in any direction and that's the only point I'm trying to put forth here. That's why I say it won't be until after the derby we'll have a somewhat clearer picture about how we'll fare this season.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #459 on: October 02, 2012, 01:43:23 PM »
the fact that despite the poor start to our season (pointswise) there could be some signs things might change sooner rather than later.
I don't think the defence is right (though Johnson is giving it loads
going forward on the left) and Pepe has been erratic. The two kids
Raheem & Suso, for all their skills (technicians in BR speak) are
bit lightweight and suspect defensively imo.

I think we need to seriously cop on defensively and stop getting intoxicated
by the promise of youth and flashy skills. There has to be balance and some
clean sheets would be a start!

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #460 on: October 02, 2012, 02:32:49 PM »
There has to be balance and some clean sheets would be a start!

exactly Ed, balance is the key element in football.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #461 on: October 02, 2012, 07:54:49 PM »
I was counting the Baggies game hence 12, so my bad. Lets say 13 in the last 4 then.  ;) Other than that I couldn't agree with you more about how frustrating it is when people slap you in the face with some unreflected and (most often) taken-out-of-context-stats. That wasn't my intention, however. I was merely pointing to the fact that despite the poor start to our season (pointswise) there could be some signs things might change sooner rather than later. For all I know we could be back to our huff'n puffin best against Stoke but we could also go on and put 2 past them with a clean sheet. We don't know yet so no major conclusions can be drawn at this stage in any direction and that's the only point I'm trying to put forth here. That's why I say it won't be until after the derby we'll have a somewhat clearer picture about how we'll fare this season.

I think it's far too early to be able to tell if it's a flaw in the system. Until we know that the players have fully grasped the system, and that they and the system have been tuned as far as it can be, will we be able to judge. Maybe the end of next season before we can safely say all the above has and can have been achieved.

However, we need to sort out the defensive side of the team. That has to be priority above all else. Even if it means taking a step or three back and moving slightly away from the system.
It should always be remembered that a system is a starting point, but it's the players a manager has at his disposal is what decides specifics.

Some of the play has been great. The goals scored, not just nice to see the numbers of, but some of the goals have been really special, both individual and team efforts.
None of the improvements can though mask the defensive frailties. It's easy to focus on all the positives and overlook the negative. I hope the manager has been working on the defensive side of the team play this week, whether it's the players, the system or a combination of both. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #462 on: October 05, 2012, 05:35:35 PM »
If we're to get the best from and utilise Borini to the max, then maybe it's an idea for Rodgers to have a DVD of his movement and space creation made so his team mates can learn quicker how best to utilise and benefit from it, otherwise he'll become another Dirk, who's movement was never utilised properly and as such he was never properly appreciated.
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Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #463 on: October 05, 2012, 06:28:56 PM »
Regarding Henderson I just hope he sticks around long enough to fulfil his potential rather than flogged in January to raise money. We'll lose Sahin in the summer and Gerrard will be a year older so you don't want to let Henderson go as well. Leaving only Lucas and Allen as top class central midfielders.

I think its clear that in the system we play we need 2 "workhorse" type players - Lucas/Allen/Henderson.. You then compliment 2 of these with a luxury player ala Gerrard/Shelvey/Sahin.

Against Udinese once we lost the graft and industry of Henderson we fell to pieces in the center, that was a mistake on Rodgers part, but then again he should of been able to trust Gerrard to slot in like Jordan had, which he didn't causing the unbalance in the middle of the park.

Henderson is slowly growing, his decision making was better and he kept the ball very well. I think he could easily be trained to play the pivot role and he would be really effective there imo.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #464 on: October 05, 2012, 07:27:46 PM »
Regarding Henderson I just hope he sticks around long enough to fulfil his potential rather than flogged in January to raise money.

Against Udinese once we lost the graft and industry of Henderson we fell to pieces in the center, that was a mistake on Rodgers part, but then again he should of been able to trust Gerrard to slot in like Jordan had, which he didn't causing the unbalance in the middle of the park.

Henderson is slowly growing, his decision making was better and he kept the ball very well. I think he could easily be trained to play the pivot role and he would be really effective there imo.
Interesting.

I agree that, in general he maintained possession well and was fairly busy tracking.
Of course people don't like this dirty work because it's not flashy. I presume that was
his role with Shelvey given license to attack and get in the box (as for the goal).

What we want to see with Henderson is for him to develop into a player that shows for it
more (even with the opposition tight on him), out-muscle and take the ball off midfielders
and break with it. He tends to be less confident dribbling forward when he needs to pick a
pass on the fly. The question/hope is with experience he'll become more confident and be
more influential in terms of bossing the game.

I agree too that the change at 1-1 was premature, ill-considered and smacked of desperation.
I mean they scored early in the second half by taking apart our defensive structure. Bringing
on two attackers at the expense of a defensive midfielder was never going to solve that,
particularly when Johnson was being caught out high up the pitch and Udinese were simply
pinging balls down the wing to DiNatale. The other question is why we seemed to completely
abandon the passing game from the first half???

Protecting the draw was the priority and building on that for a win the next step. We appeared
to make the change as if we were a goal down.

Mistakes were made and losing at home in Europe smacks of tactical naivety on the part of
the gaffer, imo.