October 21, 2019, 09:31:56 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 270498 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #465 on: October 06, 2012, 01:01:43 AM »
Regarding Henderson I just hope he sticks around long enough to fulfil his potential rather than flogged in January to raise money. We'll lose Sahin in the summer and Gerrard will be a year older so you don't want to let Henderson go as well. Leaving only Lucas and Allen as top class central midfielders.

Good point, Edward, and if cash is to be more limited, then it's one that becomes much more pertinent.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #466 on: October 06, 2012, 01:15:41 AM »
Interesting.

I agree that, in general he maintained possession well and was fairly busy tracking.
Of course people don't like this dirty work because it's not flashy. I presume that was
his role with Shelvey given license to attack and get in the box (as for the goal).

What we want to see with Henderson is for him to develop into a player that shows for it
more (even with the opposition tight on him), out-muscle and take the ball off midfielders
and break with it. He tends to be less confident dribbling forward when he needs to pick a
pass on the fly. The question/hope is with experience he'll become more confident and be
more influential in terms of bossing the game.

I agree too that the change at 1-1 was premature, ill-considered and smacked of desperation.
I mean they scored early in the second half by taking apart our defensive structure. Bringing
on two attackers at the expense of a defensive midfielder was never going to solve that,
particularly when Johnson was being caught out high up the pitch and Udinese were simply
pinging balls down the wing to DiNatale. The other question is why we seemed to completely
abandon the passing game from the first half???

Protecting the draw was the priority and building on that for a win the next step. We appeared
to make the change as if we were a goal down.

Mistakes were made and losing at home in Europe smacks of tactical naivety on the part of
the gaffer, imo.

I also thought the substitutions were too premature. As we conceded straight after half time, we therefore needed to get a foothold back in the game but also keep Udinese out. They are the team to beat in the group and having started with 3 points against Young Boys, a point against them was not the end of the world, especially if it could be repeated on the return game in Italy. Then we look to win the group by getting more points against Anzhi and Young Boys than Udinese do, and in that mini tournament we've got 3/3.
Also a 1-1 would be an improvement on the goals conceded front, and extend the unbeaten run in this competition and make it three matches in all competitions.
I'm not sure Rodgers quite saw a bigger picture last night.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #467 on: October 06, 2012, 01:53:21 AM »
I'm not sure Rodgers quite saw a bigger picture last night.
I'm gutted that Udinese came more focussed on getting a result.

Their gaffer has been around (57, I think) and has experience:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Guidolin

I was impressed with what he said before the game:

http://www.football-italia.net/25750/guidolin-dreams-anfield-upset

“The atmosphere will certainly be impressive and the lads might not be accustomed to that kind of pressure-cooker atmosphere,” noted the Coach.

“Still, I think our focus ought to be on Liverpool, who are a great team. After all, atmosphere is all well and good, but the games are played on the pitch.

“Liverpool haven’t had the best start to the season, but that is because they are settling in to a new way of playing with a new Coach who did very well at Swansea last year.

“They paid a price for those big changes, but I have to focus on my own squad and what my players can do.”

Guidolin confirmed he will rotate the squad, so it will by no means be the first choice Udinese XI at Anfield.

“Unfortunately, the fixture list forces that decision upon me. We are playing seven games in 21 days. I’ll make a few adjustments, but not too many, because we want to do well.

Getting a result here would certainly be extraordinary and important for our confidence.”


There's no bullsh*t there, it's very clear what they're about. I'd question (and I did before
the game) whether our game plan went beyond throwing Gerrard & Suarez on at the first sign
of trouble
. The changes certainly didn't fit with any notion of counter-acting what was happening
on the pitch. Anyway, I think the Italians gave us a lesson in getting results in Europe and lets hope
the gaffer has the humility to see that we were out-classed in that respect i.e. forget the b*llshit,
European football is about tactics and results.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #468 on: October 06, 2012, 07:37:08 PM »
Team tomorrow against Stoke is unchanged from the Norwich starting XI. So I've been told.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #469 on: October 06, 2012, 08:36:06 PM »
Interesting. Wisdom giving us height in the back four, otherwise we're imposing our game on them. Brave.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #470 on: October 06, 2012, 09:13:06 PM »
Interesting. Wisdom giving us height in the back four, otherwise we're imposing our game on them. Brave.
                              Reina
Wisdom     Skrtel          Agger       Johnson

                               Allen
                Gerrard           Sahin

              Sterling               Suso
                             Suarez

Lot of technicians in there, not much strength or height from
midfield onwards. Tbh, we're at home, so I'm not that bothered.
I'd say if we concentrate on keeping the sheet clean (stop switching
off), try get the big lads up for set-pieces, then there's an embarassment
of attacking riches there to cause Stoke problems with the R.A.F.
(Relentless Attacking Football  :)) )

Thought Bruce was giving it loads about our defense on TalkRadio

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/121005/exclusive-grobbelaar-questions-rodgers-defensive-tactics-182437




Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #471 on: October 07, 2012, 03:26:48 AM »
Interesting. Wisdom giving us height in the back four, otherwise we're imposing our game on them. Brave.
Yeah been thinking about that and what Bruce said about Udinese's second goal.

I doubt Stoke are under any illusions that they're not going to have to endure an
awful amount of attacking trickery all afternoon, so guaranteed they'll have been
perfecting their set pieces and crossing. Need two towers at the back and a less
introverted Reina.

I'm actually looking forward to this one 'cos they've only been beat by Chelsea away
this season 1-0 (drew away with Reading 1-1 and Wigan 2-2) and I think they'll settle
for another draw with us. Realistically, we need a win to arrest our slow start.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #472 on: October 07, 2012, 06:36:31 PM »
Very disappointing result and to quite some extent performance. The kids are alright an'all but the last 20 were only hade Gerrard or Såren to put our hopes to. Were're quite some distance from vinning games like these with room to spare. I dont think Gerrard is helping at all for long periods of the game. Also Suarez was back to his own worst. That pathetic dive will cost us another 2 stonewall penos.

We look a bit too lightweight but that was somewhat expected, less expected was the attitude the last 20 where it was apparent the players didnt beleive in a victory themselves.

I dont think Brendan couldve done it any better bar Atkins off Sterling instead of Suso who was arguably your best planera.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #473 on: October 07, 2012, 08:30:42 PM »
There's a reason experience gets paid more. We miss our experience and their knowhow of 'how to win'.

To a degree in this system Gerrard is bearing out what has been stated many times on here about his lack of discipline. It's not a 'pop' but you have to know when to hold and when to push.

Rodgers has his own theories on football, but they are just that, 'theories', it's never been put into practice at the highest level.
He would do well to study us in Dalglish's caretaker stint and the last third of 2008/09 when we were chasing the Mancs. See what it was that enabled us to win games - scoring more than we were conceding, and conceding few, whilst playing 'good' football, the type you want to pay to see.

I'm not saying his methods are wrong as it's far, far, far too early for anything so final, but there is always something that can be added to, tweaked and things that can be left out etc. He needs to be open minded and flexible in his thinking and if things aren't working, then not to get entrenched in his thinking. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #474 on: October 07, 2012, 09:32:00 PM »
There's a reason experience gets paid more. We miss our experience and their knowhow of 'how to win'.

To a degree in this system Gerrard is bearing out what has been stated many times on here about his lack of discipline. It's not a 'pop' but you have to know when to hold and when to push.


But it should be a pop...3 of the most experienced players in premier league history were let go this summer...and by the age of 32 Gerrard should have learnt that by now...it's not rocket science...and we STILL do not play to our strengths...

The gospel of the anfield road forum...(to be added on to by other wise sages)

The team comes before the individual...
Pass and move..
keep your best players...
don't buy sh*te...

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #475 on: October 07, 2012, 11:27:43 PM »
But it should be a pop...3 of the most experienced players in premier league history were let go this summer...and by the age of 32 Gerrard should have learnt that by now...it's not rocket science...and we STILL do not play to our strengths...

The gospel of the anfield road forum...(to be added on to by other wise sages)

The team comes before the individual...
Pass and move..
keep your best players...
don't buy sh*te...

Wise words. Indeed. Barticus.

We'll all be going down with Repetitive Words Syndrom.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #476 on: October 08, 2012, 04:35:57 PM »
But it should be a pop...3 of the most experienced players in premier league history were let go this summer...
Agree. We could well have used options like Kuyt, Maxi & Bellers yesterday.
I got the sense that the game could have gone on 'til midnight and we wouldn't
have scored. There's a huge difference between a player like Sterling or Suso
trying to break his duck and those players who have scored at every level in the game.
My feeling's the Stoke back line was too well drilled to be knocked out of their stride
by the youngsters.

The introduction of Cole (if nothing else 'cos he doesn't offer much) demonstrated the
difference in terms of the time on the ball (and the extra decision-making that affords) of
an older player.

There's also imo an argument that Carroll would have offered a different approach when plan A
hit a brick wall. Just sayin' is all because if you want to blood youngsters and/or ease Borini in, it
makes sense to do it when the squad aint threadbare.

The kids are fine in and out given 20 minutes here and there but imo it's worrying when they
are virtually automatic starters?? I also don't see the motivation for alienating Downing
(we've already seen how the precedent with Carroll/Morgan back-fired).

I think the lads did ok but there's just not enough maturity/intelligence in the team to grind
out the results we need to move up the table. I think the manager will have to face up to the fact
sooner rather than later that the results have not been good enough for LFC and he should stop
hiding behind feel-good stories about how well the kids are doing.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #477 on: October 08, 2012, 06:06:21 PM »
How many F'N times.

Maxi WANTED, YES WANTED TO GO. We did not want him to leave. MAXI WANTED TO GO.

We wanted to keep Bellamy. BELLAMY WANTED TO GO. YES WANTED TO GO.

It is only Kuyt that we were more than willing to let go of.

You can blame the management team for most things but for Maxi and Bellamy leaving you cannot.

P.s. I can hear the rebuttal being that they have contracts and we should have held here until the contracts run out. I like to think that we are a better club than that when dealing with players that have given us loyalty and every ounce of blood, sweat and tears on the pitch. Maxi wanted to end his career at Newell's Old Boys. We granted him that wish because of the respect we have for Maxi. Same applies to Bellamy who wanted to go to Cardiff to be nearer his family.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 06:10:12 PM by Edward224 »

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #478 on: October 08, 2012, 06:49:45 PM »
How many F'N times.

Maxi WANTED, YES WANTED TO GO. We did not want him to leave. MAXI WANTED TO GO.
Maxi wanted to end his career at Newell's Old Boys. We granted him that wish because of the respect we have for Maxi.
I'm confused, do you mean we let Maxi go or he let us go or Newell's Old Boys let Kenny go?  :)

Ok, you've made your point, u could actually have done it with the rattler still in the pram   :P

Which brings me back to the point. Is it not the manager's job to get results?
Trust me, Villas Boas, Di Matteo, Clarke, Moyes all have in trays full of matters
requiring decisions to be taken on.

My point is that I'd rather hear the manager address this issue in his post match press interview
than hiding behind feel-good stories about the kids and how everyone in the squad is a hard worker,
good guy and loves his mother.

We was beat by Udinese on Thursday and aint won at home yet this season and he was (if you listen to
it) fudging and alluding to the previous regime and last day of the transfer window. He bought Borini to
score goals, loaned Carroll, dropped Downing from the squad and started with a 17 & 18 year old. I'd
have preferred a more robust assessment of how he feels things are going.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #479 on: October 08, 2012, 07:34:33 PM »
How many F'N times.

Maxi WANTED, YES WANTED TO GO. We did not want him to leave. MAXI WANTED TO GO.

We wanted to keep Bellamy. BELLAMY WANTED TO GO. YES WANTED TO GO.

It is only Kuyt that we were more than willing to let go of.

You can blame the management team for most things but for Maxi and Bellamy leaving you cannot.

P.s. I can hear the rebuttal being that they have contracts and we should have held here until the contracts run out. I like to think that we are a better club than that when dealing with players that have given us loyalty and every ounce of blood, sweat and tears on the pitch. Maxi wanted to end his career at Newell's Old Boys. We granted him that wish because of the respect we have for Maxi. Same applies to Bellamy who wanted to go to Cardiff to be nearer his family.

And Kuyt???? Nevermind, only joking. The wider point that Barticus was making (at least that's my reading) and what I was meaning and what has been covered by Dude and Juan (I think) is that we have lost 'experience', the knowhow needed to win a tight match (or at least increase our chances), the kind that the likes of Kuyt demonstrated times many.

That is down to the club. Who exactly, I wouldn't know for certain so I won't place blame. Maybe you can enlighten us all.
You need experience as well as youth. You have to have a blend. But no. Re-$ale value. That appears to be the only criteria. Without, we don't have that 'edge' that a group of young players lack.
Arsenal. How many trophies have any of their crops of 'babes' in any combination, no matter the 'batch' they emerged from, won?
A 29 year old for example, may 'only' give us 3 years and then have to be 'released for nowt' but it's what he gives directly on the pitch (the visible contribution) and to younger players in terms of advice and an example to watch and learn from. How many times do you hear a current 'senior' player praise a former senior player for their help and advice both before breaking into the team and whilst 'finding their way' as a first teamer.

Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.