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Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 281015 times)

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #600 on: October 30, 2012, 02:26:14 PM »
exactly.

we have ten points, with almost a quarter of the season gone.

we need to kick on from this point onwards.  Or else, we are looking at a nightmare scenario.
Ideally at this point, the way forward would be clear but we saw Everton using
that simple trick of pressing the backline when the keeper has it, disrupting the
whole possession game plan. Any of the lesser teams watching that will have
seen that the frankly ridiculous notion of countering it by playing passes over
their heads to the 2nd and 3rd lines just conceded possession.

Newcastle(H), Chelsea(A), Wigan(H), Swansea(A), Spurs(A) are the next 5.
Granted 4 of those teams are currently above us so it represents an opportunity
to get into the top half of the table. 10 points out of that 15 wouldn't seem an
unreasonable expectation to me W-L-W-W-D (Heck, I might even cheer up  :) ).
Were we to get 5 points D-L-W-D-D we'd most likely remain in the bottom half.

I presume at that point it'll be clearer whether there is tangible progress underway?

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #601 on: October 30, 2012, 06:31:42 PM »
Ideally at this point, the way forward would be clear but we saw Everton using
that simple trick of pressing the backline when the keeper has it, disrupting the
whole possession game plan.

The keeper has to be able to distribute quickly as he sees fit, whether that's giving it short or throwing it long. Alternatively the midfielder on the same side (of the penalty area that the keeper is) has to come short as the extra man to provide the outlet for the keeper and the full back needs to the move quickly off his marker to give the outlet to the midfielder who's come short.

Always doing anything the same way will allow you to have your gameplan sussed by the opposition.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #602 on: October 30, 2012, 06:35:23 PM »
I agree I think we are going down.

No you don't, sometimes and going down where? Under? Are we touring Oz in the Summer?  ???
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #603 on: October 30, 2012, 07:18:14 PM »
See the point I'd make is if Raheem is in the first 11 as a starter, then that is
what is expected of him.

There's no point playing the kids if the only point it serves is to say "we're playing
the kids".

We're looking for results is the attitude and the reason this lad is in the first 11 is
because there is a strong belief that he can help us get a result.

Agree, but it doesn't hurt to give a young lad praise and encouragement. And if not Sterling, then who? If he's the best we have it doesn't make him what we neccessarily need or that he's good enough, but when you consider his age and lack of experience, he's given us more in a handful of games than Downing has in a season and a quarter.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #604 on: October 30, 2012, 08:11:32 PM »
Agree, but it doesn't hurt to give a young lad praise and encouragement.
Aye but praise and encouragement quickly turns into hype, expectations
go up and then all of a sudden the lad is under too much pressure, imo.

And if not Sterling, then who?
Downing and Assaidi are the natural options imo.

Like no one reasonable is going to have a go at Sterling, but what I'm seeing is
for example no real cover for Wisdom to begin with, was Suso playing that side?
(when Henderson has done that job last season, how well is a matter of opinion)
and Sterling getting a caution from the ref in the first half (effectively meaning
he'll have little defensive input from then on).

Are we going to get some consistent performances in November with this kind of
experimentation when the lesson of the derby is surely that the original line-up
was not thought out properly and we were lucky not to be blown away in the first
half, imo.


Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #605 on: October 30, 2012, 09:02:43 PM »
Lverpool players wages. Official.
As Football Manager Demo was released today I can tell you that these players are the highest paid footballers in the Premier League. As Football Manager, also known as FM has got the rights from the FA - they hold the official wages with further contract details on ALL players in the Premier League.

(per week):

1. Steven Gerrard - £120.000
2. Luis Suárez - £100.000
3. Pepe Reina - £90.000
4. Joe Cole - £90.000
5. Jamie Carragher - £85.000
6. Stewart Downing - £80.000
7. Glen Johnson - £80.000
8. Jordan Henderson - £70.000
9. Martin Skrtel - £70.000
10. Daniel Agger - £70.000
11. Lucas Leiva - £65.000
12. Nuri Sahin - £91.000, we pay £64.000.
13. José Enrique - £55.000
14. Doni - £50.000
15. Joe Allen - £45.000
16. Fabio Borini - £30.000
17. Seba Coates - £29.000
18. Oussuma Assaidi - £21.000
19. Danny Wilson - £20.000
20. Brad Jones - £20.000
21. Jonjo Shelvey - £18.000
22. Martin Kelly - £15.000
23. Suso - £10.000
24. Dani Pacheco - £7.000
25. Raheem Sterling - £5.000
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 09:04:06 PM by Edward224 »

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #606 on: October 30, 2012, 10:35:58 PM »
Aye but praise and encouragement quickly turns into hype, expectations
go up and then all of a sudden the lad is under too much pressure, imo.
Downing and Assaidi are the natural options imo.

Like no one reasonable is going to have a go at Sterling, but what I'm seeing is
for example no real cover for Wisdom to begin with, was Suso playing that side?
(when Henderson has done that job last season, how well is a matter of opinion)
and Sterling getting a caution from the ref in the first half (effectively meaning
he'll have little defensive input from then on).

Are we going to get some consistent performances in November with this kind of
experimentation when the lesson of the derby is surely that the original line-up
was not thought out properly and we were lucky not to be blown away in the first
half, imo.

Rodgers really has very little to work with. Whoever came in as manager would have faced the same problems thanks to Dalglish and Comolli's negligence, not just in buying who they did, but still going ahead with the deals at the prices quoted.

Rodgers was not my choice but I do feel for him looking at that squad. Henderson proved himself to be woeful out on the right last season, and him being in an attacking front three is probably even more alien to him than the position Dalglish kept shoving him in last season. And as for Downing. He went missing more times than an English tourist's child abroad.
Granted, Sterling isn't going to give any full back much coverage but if Johnson wasn't injured then we'd have probably seen him given the nod ahead of Wisdom to deal with Mirallas.

I understand what you are saying re praise and hype etc, but it depends on the individual as to whether they see praise as a spur to improve even more or an indication that they've "made it". Soon enough the papers will start to hype Sterling and it will be down to the club and the players to help him keep his feet on the ground.

If our expectations go any higher than the rightful level and we start expecting a 17 y.o to be our saviour then we are at fault when it doesn't quite work out that way.

As for the performances it's hard to know. Has too much been changed too quickly? Probably.
Without the ability to bring in a significant number of players that are at a stage where they already understand the way Rodgers wants to play, maybe he'd have been better going for evolution than revolution.
Rewind to the most recent time where our football proved to be successful (Dalglish's half season) and start from there. Most of those players are still here so only really Dirk and Maxi have to be replaced. Allen could have slotted into that style OK.
Then as we bring in more players that are more suited then change things accordingly and let the personnel available dictate the pace of change.

Maybe Rodgers is having to give the kids a go so he can see which ones he can count on in the future and which he can't. He looks like he's made up his mind about some of the more established players and he's having to use the season working through who has a future and who doesn't and go with those who are seen to be the future rather than those who are soon to have LFC as their past. It gives him a better understanding of what is needed and how to prioritise the recruitment process, which is likely to take a while as we neither have the cash to make wholesale changes or the appetite, I'd imagine, as changing too many players in one go leads to a team of strangers like the one we saw last season. Changing the playing philosophy AND the players wholesale is probably too big a leap even for someone as brave/reckless (delete as applicable) as Rodgers.

It's just frustrating that the bedding in period/evolutionary stage is going to seemingly be such a long one, meanwhile we see other teams apparently overtaking us and those we were aiming to catch up with move further ahead.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #607 on: November 03, 2012, 05:13:46 PM »
Man United  - Arsenal      2-1 
Tottenham   - Wigan        0-1 
Swansea     - Chelsea     1-1 
Fulham      - Everton       2-2

Those results means winning tomorrow would be absolutely massive in getting our season back on track.

COME ON YOU REDMEN!!!!!
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #608 on: November 03, 2012, 06:46:03 PM »
Ideally at this point, the way forward would be clear but we saw Everton using
that simple trick of pressing the backline when the keeper has it, disrupting the
whole possession game plan. Any of the lesser teams watching that will have
seen that the frankly ridiculous notion of countering it by playing passes over
their heads to the 2nd and 3rd lines just conceded possession.

Newcastle(H), Chelsea(A), Wigan(H), Swansea(A), Spurs(A) are the next 5.
Granted 4 of those teams are currently above us so it represents an opportunity
to get into the top half of the table. 10 points out of that 15 wouldn't seem an
unreasonable expectation to me W-L-W-W-D (Heck, I might even cheer up  :) ).
Were we to get 5 points D-L-W-D-D we'd most likely remain in the bottom half.

I presume at that point it'll be clearer whether there is tangible progress underway?

yes, Ed, re pressuring the opposition's defence........that was always something we did ourselves.  Ian Rush was superb at it.  Indeed, many called him our first line of defence.

It's too easy to counter our very limited tic-tac style.  And if you're gonna move the ball intelligently out from the back, you need a keeper who can distribute it well (long throws are important).   Reina is superb at distributing the ball from the back.

Yes, those next five games are going to be crucial.  You predict 10 points, from the next 5 games.  I think we will be lucky to get 5 or 6.  These games will give a good pointer to where our season is going.....i.e.  if it will be a relegation battle season, with us in the bottom 6 or 7 all season, or a non-descript wishy-washy mid-table season.   

You are more positive than me.  I see deadly icebergs ahead (to use Tes's shipping analogy from a previous post).   We are playing a very limited style of football, and we have a young lad in the dugout who is way out of his depth.  Sure, he will blame limited resources....but why did we allow top senior players to leave, and not replace them. 

We needed an old experienced hand at the tiller, to get the club through a difficult spot of water.  In over 40 years of watching football, one of the key things I discovered with experience, was that when things go south, young managers don't know how to arrest a bad run of form/results.   Correcting the ship, and getting her on an even keel, is something that old bearded ship captains are much better at doing. 

Experience is something that clubs (indeed, modern society in general) ridiculously pay scant regard to.


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There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #609 on: November 03, 2012, 07:21:37 PM »
Man United  - Arsenal      2-1 
Tottenham   - Wigan        0-1 
Swansea     - Chelsea     1-1 
Fulham      - Everton       2-2

Those results means winning tomorrow would be absolutely massive in getting our season back on track.

COME ON YOU REDMEN!!!!!

I totally agree. We win tomorrow and we are only 4 points behind 4th with only 10 games played.

Personally I don't expect us to finish in the top 4. BUT I want us to compete for that 4th place with arsenal, spurs, newcastle and everton. Not flounder away like last season.

If we can get into January 4-7 points behind 4th place with a fully fit Lucas to come back and the transfer window open for us to strengthen, then we certainly have the opportunity to compete for that place and not be 10-15 points behind come February, March time.

Newcastle will be a massive test for us though. They have two confident strikers. However they have a poor record at Anfield and their defence isn't all that, so we have a chance to beat them if we can control the midfield.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #610 on: November 03, 2012, 07:39:55 PM »

Personally I don't expect us to finish in the top 4. BUT I want us to compete for that 4th place with arsenal, spurs, newcastle and everton. Not flounder away like last season.

Exactly, I expect us to finish 6th to 10th but the feeling we're within touching distance will do wonders for the rebuilding process. Just like there are different ways to lose or win games, there are different ways to finish 6th.

Massive game indeed.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #611 on: November 03, 2012, 10:35:38 PM »
Experience is something that clubs (indeed, modern society in general) ridiculously pay scant regard to.

Experience is the most priceless commodity there is. Unfortunately as you can't see it, or hold, or trade it on the markets, it's something that in the last 30 years has been criminally cast aside and disgarded.

Youth is wasted on the young and wisdom and experienced is acquired too late in life.

Mourinho work under Sir Bobby as his assistant, learning from the experienced older man. Now look at Mourinho.

Spurs had to turn to 'Arry when things were going south under Juande Ramos.

The Mancs brought in Taggart who had broken the Glasgow duopoly and won European silverchair when all Aberdeen was previously famous for were drilling platforms and a cow that shared it's name with a manic little guitar player in the biggest band to come out of Oz and go on to be one of the biggest names in rock.

Guardiolas tend to be the exception.

Any manager coming in would face the same problems Rodgers does, but some would have the extra tool of experience to use. Again, he's hampered, as would any other manager be by the lack of an administration worth it's title at the club. I think we have to be careful that we don't blame Brendan Rodgers for being the owners' choice. However things go over the next few years, the responsibility for his selection as manager is never going to be Rodgers' to bear and it shouldn't be something that gets placed around his neck.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 10:49:44 PM by Tes »
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #612 on: November 04, 2012, 04:00:13 PM »
I have extremly negative vibes 5 minutes before KO. Think they'll beat us heavily. Pardew is right we look extremly vurnerable at the mo.

Come on your Redmen!!!
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #613 on: November 04, 2012, 04:36:45 PM »
First 10 we throwed everything we got in their direction with Sterling being very lively and direct. Newcy's fought their way back into the game without creating anything worth mentioning. But we are not as cohesive as we were during the first 10. Suso's a waste of space and look terrified to be honest. Never thought I'd say it but I actually think Downing would be a better proposition for 2nd half.

Sahin's having his best game in a red shirt in the PL while Allen's not found his way into this game. Might be tired. Gerrard need to spur the lads on as we look inclined to fall back. Our attack's are less and less organised attacking on his own against an entire Newcy defence in place.
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Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #614 on: November 04, 2012, 05:04:01 PM »
Game over