What you claim to have done or not done is what happens most of the time on here re Rodgers, but you apply different standards to those comments than you do to the ones you make about Benitez. It's not so much that you regularly offer your insight into him, it's the fact that he's now irrelevant to this club, whereas Rodgers isn't.
You appear to keep haranguing him and bringing him up as some of 'retaliation' for the perceived 'insults' supposedly hurled at Rodgers, mainly I suspect because you seem to think that those who don't share your appreciation of Rodgers would like to see him replaced with Benitez.
No, no and no. The reason I keep mentioning Rafa is because he's used as sole evidence Rodger's managerial credentials doesn't fit the bill. Rafael Benitez will never manage this club again mainly because he failed to improve the team in the PL during his 6 year spell. I've said numerous times on here I was happy as fkuc when we signed Rafa, that I'm eternally grateful for no. 5 and that he was probably one of the best managers in the game during his first 24 months at the club. I don't know what happened but it remains a fact he lost it sometime in 2007 - sacking of Ayesteran, Drogba dvd, Parry conflict, sole charge of transfer conflict, endless fights with G & H, the infamous attempt at engaging in mind games with Taggart. And there's more. All of this needs to be taken into context when you decide to write off the current manager after less than half a season. I gave Rafa 4 seasons before I started to write thing similar to what's said about Rodgers on here, why can't you lot give him one? Becasue you KNOW he's not able to take us to the next level?
From my perspective Benitez deserves credit and most importantly respect for bringing number 5 and another CL final two years later. Whilst he underperformed in the PL which is a huge disappointment, that can't take away one jot from the CL experiences we enjoyed. If Rodgers gets us to one CL final he'll have my everlasting respect like Rafa does.
If he gets us into the top four on a regular basis like Wenger has with Arsenal (as that's the model we appear to following), then likewise. I'm setting his bar lower than the one Benitez scaled.
Yes he deserves respect for winnin no. 5 I agree. I do not agree with the rest. Rafa's mission was to take us closer to no.19. He got 6 full seasons and failed altho the 2008/09 season was good. I would always agree iwith Shanks that the league is our bread and butter. That's something Rafa never took onboard it seems. His fear of losing was Always bigger than his will to win and the steady decline in the league during his tenure (bar that one-off in 2009) is a testament to that fact. I don't think either of us will ever see Brendan cruising us to another CL final. But that's not his commission. His job is to rebuild and restore continuity for this club. He was dealt a very weak hand and given that he's done tremendously well this season. The win at Villa is a huge testament as to how far the team has progressed under his guidance. That's why I think it's unfair, yes even dishonest, to ask of Brendan the same return in results we asked of Rafa who came in and took over a much stronger squad at a much more stable club.
Martin, I can accept without question that you see it as fine having a guy with a mere 2 years management experience, a single top flight season and not one single European match placed in charge of trying to halt the decline and regain our previous place at the top table of English and European football. Appointed to a club that has an equally inexperienced and in Ayres' case, totally unsuitable, management structure and board setup.
Therefore I understand that you defend your choice and seem able to 'let go' things that others who are less partial see as a real problem.
No, that's not the case. Me too can see, in large, what we lack. Me too can see he's made some silly and costly mistakes over the course of the season. But I can also balance that with the good things he brought to the club. Unlike you I never thought he'd be able to fix all the problems we suffered from in one season. Here's some he sorted. Downing's better (tho still not good enough IMHO), Henderson's looking more and more at least decent value for Money, Sturridge and Coutinho looks great buys, we sorted the goal drought, we're playing better and more efficient footy as a TEAM than we have for a very very long time. He's set us up very very nicely for next year!!!
I've told you this before, but I'll repeat myself (mainly because my middle initials are BBC) in saying that when Benitez was manager he got the same scrutiny and had the same disection of all aspects of his management as Rodgers has had, in spite of the fact he had an infinitely better CV and therefore bought himself respect with such.
And again scrutiny, constructive criticism, frustration over bad decisions is one thing, personal insults, unfounded criticism, non-support is a totally different. I gave my full support to Rafa for over 2 seasons altho I often thought he made the wrong decisions or priorities.
I'd have had much more respect for Rodgers if he'd agreed to work with a more experienced appointment (whatever the guy's title would have been), thereby acknowledging his youth and massive inexperience whilst at the same time showing a greater appreciation of what would be required to succeed at the job in hand.
Anyone who had been appointed after the Toxics had been ejected would have had a mountain to climb, especially as the new owners haven't seen fit to appoint a board and managing director with sufficent knowledge, experience, gravitas and savvy in all required elements to both guide them (the owners) and render the fact that Henry, Werner and Co have the knowledge and interest in all aspects of English and European football of your average fence post, as being a merely academic fact, nothing more, nothing less.
The thing is it's better to have Sir Edmond Hilary there to show the way up the mountain than your average Joe who's nearest experience to peaks of that nature is doing a bit of hill walking in the Derbshire Dales whilst on their annual caravanning holiday, and who thinks that reaching the top of Mam Tor is a conquest of nature.
I hear what you say and I also think I can see where you're coming from. I respect that point of view. At the same time I kind of like and appreciate Brendan's belief in himself and his ideas. An experienced appointment (regardless of the role and formal power connected to it) would always bring a moment of rejection/non-belief in Rodgers no matter how you look at it. When would be the right time to hand Brendan sole power? Who would decide that? I fear such a solution, no matter how logical and sympathetic, would halt the club's progression. We simply have different opinions on that one.
Interesting that you use the mention of putting ego before the club as an example of a non insult, as points very similar and references to a lack of humility and when things go right congratulating himself and his methods and when things don't absolving himself and his methods from any culpability or being contributory in any way, have been made on occasion, but don't get granted the same free pass as you have given yourself over the highlighted points you've made previously about Benitez.
I think what you say apply to most human beings. I would say some of Rafa's decisions though, are unprecedented as for instance his Drogba dvd, the "fact" discussion with Taggart, the Parry incident, and the sole charge of transfer affair. These are decisions and actions on a totally different level than anything Brendan's come even close to. If you're honest about it I think you can see that as well.
As for wrongdoings, that's the whole point of this running 'back and forth'. There is no 'right' or 'wrong'. Observations or opinions whether shared or not agreed upon or nether 'right' or 'wrong', so whether one, all or none of us agree or disagree with a single word written, it means nothing. So whilst it's irrelevent, so almost pointless to keep bringing up previous managers who have moved on elsewhere, if you wish to that then have the grace to accept when similar things are levelled at the current manager if appropriate, as that has much more of a bearing on the here and now and where we will be going forward.
I wouldn't bring up past mangers if they weren't constantly brought in as evidence the current manager is "brainless", "Brent-like", "Clueless" or what have you. If Brendan, in this place, had been critizised and judged based on his own merits rather than his age or previous track record we'd probably have a more civilized discussion climate.
It seems as our season long defensive paucity is down to the players, or at least thats the impression being given from some quarters, so therefore if that's the case and the reason why the issue has gone unaddressed or at least the effect is one continued problems, then I would expect the manager to address it in the Summer and there be a noticable change and improvement next season. Quite why players who have previously been a part of much more effective defensive units have suddenly become less effective both individually and collectively seems somewhat odd, and if the answer lies in the different method of playing that has been adopted then surely questions have to be asked as to why carry out something which whilst improves on the one hand detracts on the other, leaving an overall nett effect of pretty much zero. Or if indeed the players are to blame and therefore aren't suited then why the change until the neccessary pieces of the puzzle are at hand to use. The decision to carry on regardless of having the required tools for the job to be undertaken can't be levelled at the players, so it's not quite as cut and dried as has been inferred from some quarters throughout the season.
That's a concern of mine as well. But maybe Agger and Skrtel never was as good as we first thought? Maybe Skrtel last season was masked by our offensive failure? Maybe Agger just never got the chance earlier to prove his genuine quality? I can see Brendan's preferred style of play may have implications for the players in the squad. We'll see in the summer how he'll adress the issue for it is clear that we would most likely have finished 4th or at least very close to 4th if it wasn't for all the silly mistakes that cost us silly points (even though most of them have been individual).
Anywho, let's see what we get at Villa, a response or a continuation from the Southampton game. Lets see what has been learned from the mistakes of earlier in the season against them. It will be interesting to see if our midfield is set up better so Villa can't just walk through it, almost at will, like they could at Anfield.
In hindsight to that game a lot I would say. The change of our central midfield from 2-1 to 1-2 did the trick in terms of preventing Villa to play the ball through the center while at the same time providing more people going forward. It also helped us kill off the game the last 20 where we could see glimpses of what Brendan mean by "resting with the ball".
