October 16, 2019, 03:41:21 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 266509 times)

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2490 on: May 31, 2013, 12:56:39 AM »
What would people like to see different? What do you think he couldve done differently that would have achieved a higher league position? Just interested to hear, not questioning anyones opinion. I personally think we have done well with what we've got.
I just don't like the bloke. In my gut. If I was to put my
finger on the thing that most annoys me about him, it's
that there's nothing original about him and I scent weakness.

Looking at the great players and managers that have represented
our club and I just don't see any connection to him.

Watch Kenny's goal in the European Cup final (the little dink!) and it
becomes self evident imo that Rodgers is nowhere near that class.
Kenny's a lad from Glasgow, playing for us on a great European stage
and not a bother on him (and little by way of a comment to the media
afterward).

Or think of Paisley in his slippers outwitting the kings of Europe.

Alas  :'(

But Dude expectations have been lowered long before Rodgers arrived.
Expectations were never lower at Utd. when Busby took over or us with Shanks.
I doubt they ever made their clubs feel like they didn't belong at the top or that the
empire could not be built. Men of conviction (quiet or otherwise) and steely determination.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2491 on: May 31, 2013, 01:28:46 AM »
Watch Kenny's goal in the European Cup final (the little dink!) and it
becomes self evident imo that Rodgers is nowhere near that class.


I need to see the former Ballymena United defender in a youtube compilation, before I can say for sure.



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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2492 on: May 31, 2013, 01:40:32 AM »
But Dude expectations have been lowered long before Rodgers arrived. We havent just turned into an also ran club in the past 12 months. Its been a work in progress over the last 20 years but seems to have been accelerated since Hicks and Gillett got their hands on the club.

I agree with most of what you say above but I'm not sure why you lay the blame at the door of Rodgers. Hes taken over a mess and from what I can see managed to do a decent job starting the clean up. To think we got Sturridge and Coutihno in for the same amount that we paid for Downing makes me wonder what Rodgers couldve done with the Torres cash.

but Juan, Rodgers made it plain last week, that the Liverpool scouting network are responsible for our buys.

the one lad that Rodgers did have a massive say in bringing in last summer, has been a disaster (Allen). Nowhere near the level we need.

And Hicks and his mate may have brought the financial abyss close to the club, but during their era, we had a top  manager who won trophies.  Heck, even Kenny had us in two finals this time last year.

How could anyone be happy about the lack of competitiveness, given how much we spend.

It is easy to be taken in with Rodger's BS.  But that is all it is.

If this is a work in progress, then why has there been zero work on replacing Carragher.   Carra was done 3 or 4 summers ago.  But yet, rather than use Skytrel, he drops the lad and brings back a lad with no future (Carra). Do remember that when we ran United close for the title a few years back, it was Agger and Skytrel at the centre of our defence.  A good partnership. Why is the lad now being sold off....and Reina too.  Madness.

There has been no progress these past 12 months.  Pretty offensive, candyfloss, football means nothing.  The table is what counts.  At best we have been treading water.  More likely, we have gone backwards re overall team balance.

And as for tactics, is there a weaker manager at a top club in Europe, nevermind the English premiership.

Giving this kid the Anfield job, is like handing the Chief Executive position at British Airways to the tea lady.
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Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2493 on: May 31, 2013, 04:42:43 PM »
I just don't like the bloke. In my gut. If I was to put my
finger on the thing that most annoys me about him, it's
that there's nothing original about him and I scent weakness.

Looking at the great players and managers that have represented
our club and I just don't see any connection to him.


Thats fair enough Ed, thats as good an excuse as any.

From a footballing perspective I think he may eventually force you to a rethink. I am genuinely full of optimism about how the team is progressing and developing. Even the type of fluid player Rodgers is intent on bringing in is exciting to see. And hes not trying to break the bank on every transfer.

Guillem Balague heaped praise on him/his scouting network for the players they are unearthing.

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2494 on: May 31, 2013, 05:01:04 PM »
but Juan, Rodgers made it plain last week, that the Liverpool scouting network are responsible for our buys.

the one lad that Rodgers did have a massive say in bringing in last summer, has been a disaster (Allen). Nowhere near the level we need.

And Hicks and his mate may have brought the financial abyss close to the club, but during their era, we had a top  manager who won trophies.  Heck, even Kenny had us in two finals this time last year.

How could anyone be happy about the lack of competitiveness, given how much we spend.

It is easy to be taken in with Rodger's BS.  But that is all it is.

If this is a work in progress, then why has there been zero work on replacing Carragher.   Carra was done 3 or 4 summers ago.  But yet, rather than use Skytrel, he drops the lad and brings back a lad with no future (Carra). Do remember that when we ran United close for the title a few years back, it was Agger and Skytrel at the centre of our defence.  A good partnership. Why is the lad now being sold off....and Reina too.  Madness.

There has been no progress these past 12 months.  Pretty offensive, candyfloss, football means nothing.  The table is what counts.  At best we have been treading water.  More likely, we have gone backwards re overall team balance.

And as for tactics, is there a weaker manager at a top club in Europe, nevermind the English premiership.

Giving this kid the Anfield job, is like handing the Chief Executive position at British Airways to the tea lady.

Valid points Dude.

I dont think its fair though blaming him for Allen while refusing to give him praise for Coutihno. If it is the scouting network its the scouting network he set in place so he has to receive kudos. Allen has been a big disappointment but like Didi Hamman recently said he deserves another season to show whether he can make it here.

Its not that im happy about a lack of competitiveness. Last season was very much up and down. We'd win three games scoring 12 goals and we'd lose at home to the likes of Villa in the next. However I didnt expect anymore from this season with it being Rodgers first year. None of us predicted we would finish top 4 and we all said it was going to be difficult.

I'm delighted someone finally had the conviction to drop Skrtel. As much as I thought Carragher was finished two seasons ago he brought a sense of calm and organisation into the defence when he came back in. Skrtel is too inconsistent to be mainstay. He cost us both games against City. 11/12 was a superb season for him but thats the only season hes managed to keep a level of consistency needed. I'd happily move him on. Even the number of times he was out jumped for headers from a set piece at the start of this season was frustrating to watch.

I think it only fair to judge Rodgers on his second full season. 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 05:02:28 PM by Juan »

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2495 on: May 31, 2013, 06:49:09 PM »
Valid points Dude.

I dont think its fair though blaming him for Allen while refusing to give him praise for Coutihno. If it is the scouting network its the scouting network he set in place so he has to receive kudos. Allen has been a big disappointment but like Didi Hamman recently said he deserves another season to show whether he can make it here.

Its not that im happy about a lack of competitiveness. Last season was very much up and down. We'd win three games scoring 12 goals and we'd lose at home to the likes of Villa in the next. However I didnt expect anymore from this season with it being Rodgers first year. None of us predicted we would finish top 4 and we all said it was going to be difficult.

I'm delighted someone finally had the conviction to drop Skrtel. As much as I thought Carragher was finished two seasons ago he brought a sense of calm and organisation into the defence when he came back in. Skrtel is too inconsistent to be mainstay. He cost us both games against City. 11/12 was a superb season for him but thats the only season hes managed to keep a level of consistency needed. I'd happily move him on. Even the number of times he was out jumped for headers from a set piece at the start of this season was frustrating to watch.

I think it only fair to judge Rodgers on his second full season.

Allen might be able to prove himself...if he can recover from the shoulder injury...he played well for the first 3 months and then had a concealed injury and then still played...

that's one of the problems with rodgers i have ...knowing a player is unfit for 5 months AND STILL PLAYING HIM!!!!
all the idiotic talk about the flavour of the month football never helps either..one week he's barca, then borussia, then bayern....makes him sound like a twit from the local pub giving it large...
his destruction of the previous squad and not replacing it did us for this season...getting rid of maxi, kuyt, aquilani, bellers, carroll and adam did SERIOUS damage until January...thankfully we got coutinho...we need another 6/7 astute buys...

with suarez off, it'll be interesting to see how rodgers survives the first 3 months of the season...personally i don't see him lasting...

 

Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2496 on: May 31, 2013, 08:24:24 PM »
I didnt mind the cull. Players wanted to go, it allowed us to bring in some fresh faces. I think it was always going to be a transition year, better to get it out of the way in the first year.

I understand what your saying about Rodgers seeming to follow a different blueprint every 3 months. He has talked up the barca and dortmund especially. Lets just hope hes developing our own blueprint for success.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2497 on: June 01, 2013, 02:34:33 AM »
From a footballing perspective I think he may eventually force you to a rethink.
Dunno, found this season quite hard, had little real interest & was
only watching the games out of habit (think i watched every one of them).

I find it difficult to engage with BR and there's plenty of players i don't have
much time for.

I'll have to see how summer recruitment goes before deciding on next season,
dreading that we'll be left with a team of mediocre dopes in a few years...


Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2498 on: June 01, 2013, 02:49:42 PM »
Valid points Dude.

I dont think its fair though blaming him for Allen while refusing to give him praise for Coutihno. If it is the scouting network its the scouting network he set in place so he has to receive kudos. Allen has been a big disappointment but like Didi Hamman recently said he deserves another season to show whether he can make it here.

Its not that im happy about a lack of competitiveness. Last season was very much up and down. We'd win three games scoring 12 goals and we'd lose at home to the likes of Villa in the next. However I didnt expect anymore from this season with it being Rodgers first year. None of us predicted we would finish top 4 and we all said it was going to be difficult.

I'm delighted someone finally had the conviction to drop Skrtel. As much as I thought Carragher was finished two seasons ago he brought a sense of calm and organisation into the defence when he came back in. Skrtel is too inconsistent to be mainstay. He cost us both games against City. 11/12 was a superb season for him but thats the only season hes managed to keep a level of consistency needed. I'd happily move him on. Even the number of times he was out jumped for headers from a set piece at the start of this season was frustrating to watch.

I think it only fair to judge Rodgers on his second full season.

I am not aware that the new scouting network was anything to do with Rodgers, Juan.

Dave Fallows and Barry Hunter (appointed chief scout) arrived last May from City; and two more City scouts arrived at Anfield this month (Andy Sayer and Kevin Hunt).

FSG made a senior-level decision to have several people involved in the decision-making process.  They wanted to avoid the major mistakes we had made in the past (e.g. buying injured crocks, at big money, high wages, often from the same agencies).

Allen was IMHO quite clearly a Rodgers-buy.  The players recruited since then, look to me, more like ones that have been discovered by our new network.

I do hope that we do not sign any more Swansea lads, or the Reading central defender that we are linked with this week.

Barry Hunter would never, in a month of Sundays, have been my chief scout.  But we are where we are.  I guess many modern scouts will use computers and footballer databases, to initially find interesting possibilities.

I will always be a fan of the Geoff Twentyman style of scouting.  Some (like he had) have an eye for a player, and they will know all the leagues and all the possibilities that exist (before anyone else does).

But getting back to Rodgers.  Let me ask you a question, Juan.

What do you base your support on Rodgers on?    He is a kid, who has won absolutely nothing in his very short managerial career.  Why will it come good for him, in his second year at Anfield?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 02:51:09 PM by the dude abides »
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2499 on: June 02, 2013, 06:28:08 PM »
Based on Rodgers' comments about no scouting network when he arrived, I think it's clear he made the decisions in the Summer and the January buys were done more by consensus/scouting network, however neither Sturridge or Coutinho were 'great unknowns'.

Borini and Allen strike me as buys by a manager who wanted to have 'converted' minds on board and to give himself some familiar faces. Also, he admitted he'd bought Allen before really knowing what he'd got in the squad or knowing what kind of player Hendo was (though neither did we or it seems Dalglish either last season).

I hope that once the scouting network has been bedded in and hopefully added to, we will start to uncover the likes of the next Simon Mignolet or Christian Benteke (both of whom we're being heavily linked with again).

Juan, I think the problem with Rodgers' 'ideals' are that as we've seen all season and Swansea were the same also, is that whilst he has a definitive style going forward, his method lacks substance with the other half of football, defending.
Barca are what they are, unique. In 10 years time, I don't think we'll see a Barca team in quite the same way as we do now. Like Taggart's group of youngsters I think Barca's group are a once in a generation.
Arguably our most recent balanced style of play came in Dalglish's caretaker tenure and whilst we may not have scored quite as many (not sure as I haven't checked the figures) I know for certain we conceded less and that resulted in a superior points gain.

We haven't seen any change in the defensive side/method of play throughout the season overall, and a short term sticking plaster was put over the defence by bringing Carra back. If this was a season of transition or the start of a long term re-building project then surely short term fixes (designed to buy the manager time, maybe) should have been discounted in favour of working towards a lasting, long term solution, and as I see it there were three options:
1. Work on Skrtel. 2. Work on Coates. 3. Bring in a player < 27 y.o in January.
Those were our only realistic options but one that didn't include what was obviously not going to be any form of solution after May 2013, bringing in Carra, did nothing but delay further finding/discounting options and solutions. It's been kicked into the long grass but now that grass is getting cut and we're no nearer a solution of any kind, be it the method or the personal that was being the problem or holding the solution.
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Offline Juan

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2500 on: June 02, 2013, 08:27:13 PM »
What do you base your support on Rodgers on?    He is a kid, who has won absolutely nothing in his very short managerial career.  Why will it come good for him, in his second year at Anfield?

I could start by saying I support him because hes the Liverpool manager right now and no matter what we should support whoevers in charge of the club but that would be a bit hypocritical of me because I ran out of patience with Roy after about 4 months in charge and wanted him out.

Age isnt an issue for me. Hes 40. He may have been a novice in terms of footballing management experience  but the owners still went with him so whatever worries I had about his experience were put to one side. Hes getting on the job experience right now and time will tell whether hes a proven winner or not. His situation and experience werent too unlike Rafas when he took over Valencia. So I personally feel hes in the job now, hes stamping his authority on the team and deserves a good chance to make his time here a success.

His first season was never going to be anything other than a period of transition. In that respect hes neither under or over achieved. Hes managed to change some personnel in the team, impose his footballing philosophy and still finished the season a few points up on last year. Whether he can kick on from that and improve next season remains to be seen but i dont see any reason for us to call for change.  I like our style of play most of the time, I like the players hes bringing in with the exception of a few and I like his willingness to make certain decisions.So in many ways im happy with how we are progressing but I think next season will really be the one to judge properly. 

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2501 on: June 02, 2013, 10:57:00 PM »
I could start by saying I support him because hes the Liverpool manager right now and no matter what we should support whoevers in charge of the club but that would be a bit hypocritical of me because I ran out of patience with Roy after about 4 months in charge and wanted him out.

Juan, hats off to you, you really are a very patient and understanding person, and I'm not being sarky either.

I think this is an individual thing. I find it hard to simply say I back him no matter what when although someone happens to have the title of Liverpool manager, you could see no reason why he should be and therefore feel it is the wrong thing for the club. It's very difficult to back something you think is wrong for the club. Now that's not to say he can't convince me, because just as I wasn't convinced and made that decision based on my own interpretation of rational thought, if he does things that by that same process convince me, I will be able to back him because I'm backing something that I see as right for the club. There's nothing more anybody wants than to see Rodgers succeed because personality clashes aside, when he succeeds, we succeed and it's easier to like a successful @sshole than an unsuccessful one, and I'm not saying Rodgers is an @sshole. I reserve that parking space for Mourinho, but just as I hate the thought of him ever being our manager, if he ever was and was successful, then he'd still be an @sshole, but he'd be our successful @sshole.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #2502 on: June 02, 2013, 11:43:48 PM »
Hes 40. He may have been a novice (but) he's getting on the job experience right now and time will tell whether hes a proven winner or not. His situation and experience werent too unlike Rafas when he took over Valencia. 

Brendan's first season was never going to be anything other than a period of transition.

you reckon Liverpool FC should be taking on a manager, like Rodgers, and giving him on-the-job work experience?

Note, we recruited Rafa post-Valencia, not pre-Valencia.

And why do we suppose the first season was always gonna be a transitional period?  Why can we not make excuses for seasons 2 and 3 as well?   Everton spend a net of something like 5 million quid each summer.  Do we need excuses to be behind them 2 years in a row?  Are excuses acceptable?

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.