January 29, 2020, 05:44:04 PM

Poll

Should the goal have stood?

Yes, it was handball but not deliberate.
1 (25%)
No, it wasn't deliberate, but still handball.
1 (25%)
No, it was deliberate.
2 (50%)
Other, please state.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Author Topic: Luis' handball.  (Read 1927 times)

Offline Tes

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Luis' handball.
« on: January 06, 2013, 08:32:34 PM »
Hehe, just had to do a poll.

I'm with Rodgers on this. It was handball, but not deliberate. The officials saw it but chose not to disallow it. The fourth official saw it as handball but made no attempt to indicate a problem with allowing it to the referee.

We see balls hit defenders' hands under all sorts of circumstances, some get given as penalties, some don't, depending on the combination of circumstances and the referee's assessment and interpretation.

And though not quite the same, how many penalties have not been given for us because referees have ajudged Luis to have dived, when he clearly hasn't, and though judging him to have dived, he hasn't always been booked.

So other teams have benefitted at our expense. Just for once it was us and just for once Luis actually had a decision go in his favour.

Maybe things do even themselves out afterall.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Luis' handball.
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 04:16:04 PM »
I thought nobody came out of this smelling of roses - officials, Suarez, his colleagues, Liverpool management.

it looked like a clear deliberate hand-ball.....but regardless, it should never have stood.

we cannot complain in the future, when we are cheated in a similar way.

a decent and honest person would have owned up.


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There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Luis' handball.
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 05:24:24 PM »
I thought nobody came out of this smelling of roses - officials, Suarez, his colleagues, Liverpool management.

it looked like a clear deliberate hand-ball.....but regardless, it should never have stood.

we cannot complain in the future, when we are cheated in a similar way.

a decent and honest person would have owned up.

But how many times have we been denied a penalty by a referee because it was Suarez that was fouled.
In real time it doesn't look deliberate and Suarez smashed the ball into the net out of frustration because he knew it had hit his hand and was expecting the referee to disallow it, having adjudged the handball to be deliberate, and therefore a foul. As was I.
How many times do we see a handball it the penalty area by a defender. Some are given because the arm is in the air or a long way out from the body. Some aren't given.
Some are given when the ball is struck hard from a yard away. Some aren't.
Some are given when a defender falls in some way and connection is made with the ball. Some aren't.

No defender is expected to convince the ref it was indeed deliberate, when the referee decides otherwise.

Suarez's demeanor wasn't one of trying to hide the handball. His reaction was one of frustration that it had hit his hand and robbed him of a goalscoring chance.

A handball is only a foul if it is deliberate. Suarez's reaction didn't suggest such.

I know it will be used against him by the media though.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Luis' handball.
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 06:51:36 PM »
Suarez smashed the ball into the net out of frustration because he knew it had hit his hand and was expecting the referee to disallow it

Suarez's demeanor wasn't one of trying to hide the handball. His reaction was one of frustration that it had hit his hand and robbed him of a goalscoring chance.

A handball is only a foul if it is deliberate. Suarez's reaction didn't suggest such.

merely my opinion.

but it looked deliberate to me, Tes.

Our lad (and I have always been a massive fan) is very cute at these types of things.  He's got history. 

He controlled the ball with his hand.   imho

I think all the players, including Suarez, on the pitch were stunned to see that the goal was allowed to stand.  And that is always a very good barometer.   The celebration was very muted.

Against what were essentially part-time opposition, in the FA Cup, it didn't smell good.
Unfortunately it gives all the media and opposition fans, the usual opportunity to jump all over Liverpool and Suarez.

Ashley Young never got this level of endless abuse when he was diving week after week for United penalties.



In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

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Offline Tes

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Re: Luis' handball.
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 07:29:46 PM »
merely my opinion.

but it looked deliberate to me, Tes.

Our lad (and I have always been a massive fan) is very cute at these types of things.  He's got history. 

He controlled the ball with his hand.   imho

I think all the players, including Suarez, on the pitch were stunned to see that the goal was allowed to stand.  And that is always a very good barometer.   The celebration was very muted.

Against what were essentially part-time opposition, in the FA Cup, it didn't smell good.
Unfortunately it gives all the media and opposition fans, the usual opportunity to jump all over Liverpool and Suarez.

Ashley Young never got this level of endless abuse when he was diving week after week for United penalties.

I understand where you're coming from Dude, and as you say he does have previous.

As for Ashley Young, he'll be able to do all the diving he wants, and Ferdinand and Vidic will be able to kick Luis up in the air and volley him to each other as Taggart's got his boy for the match on Sunday, Howard Webb.

Yet another 'coincidence', hmmmm..............

Since Rodgers rang Riley we've been kicked around and all about by officials. This is where we need a stong administration to deal with this sort of thing. But as seems to be the norm nowadays, we're getting walked over.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 07:32:36 PM by Tes »
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Luis' handball.
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 11:38:22 PM »
Dude, I've just watched it again.

The commentor's words: "Suarez (ball hits the keeper and rebounds against the hand), still Suarez."

No reaction, no mention of handball.

The ball rebounded off the keeper at pace, hits his hand and he lashes it into the net out of disgust that the ball has hit his hand and robbed him of a goalscoring opportunity.
His face goes from disgust (at the ball hitting his hand and he expecting the whistle), to confusion when no whistle comes (at which point he's rubbing his wrist where the ball hit him, and I imagine it was a stinger as the temperature was quite cold by that time [I live only 8 miles from Mansfield and it had dropped cold by then]) to surprise at there being no whistle and the goal standing.

The ball struck Joe Allen on the arm, from a yard or so away in a scramble near the end, likewise Robinson fell flat on his face with his arm landing on the ball. In all three cases the ref saw them for what they were - handballs but accidental, no intent.

Luis' reaction to it hitting his hand told us it was accidental. It was too spontaneous to be anything but real. He was p!ssed that the ball rebounding off the keeper and hitting his hand had robbed him of a goalscoring chance, or at least that's what he thought. That was my immediate reaction to it, expecting a free kick to be awarded. He all but stopped before lashing it into the net in frustration.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Luis' handball.
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 04:25:44 PM »
Dude, I've just watched it again.

His face goes from disgust (at the ball hitting his hand and he expecting the whistle), to confusion when no whistle comes (at which point he's rubbing his wrist where the ball hit him, and I imagine it was a stinger as the temperature was quite cold by that time [I live only 8 miles from Mansfield and it had dropped cold by then]) to surprise at there being no whistle and the goal standing.

The ball struck Joe Allen on the arm, from a yard or so away in a scramble near the end, likewise Robinson fell flat on his face with his arm landing on the ball. In all three cases the ref saw them for what they were - handballs but accidental, no intent.

That was my immediate reaction to it, expecting a free kick to be awarded. He all but stopped before lashing it into the net in frustration.

I think we got off very lightly, Tes.

I was embarrassed, especially after the fantastic welcome that Mansfield gave us (e.g. 96 empty seats, with names on them for the deceased reds).

but it's a game of opinions - thus never boring!
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Luis' handball.
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 05:46:49 PM »
Mansfield were a credit to the game and I thought their manager's after match interview was very gracious.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Luis' handball.
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 05:58:23 PM »
I thought the same.

The manager and his players were a credit to the club.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Luis' handball.
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 07:39:28 PM »
I thought the same.

The manager and his players were a credit to the club.

There's a lot of individuals and clubs that would do well to learn from them.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.