September 23, 2019, 04:24:02 AM

Author Topic: 2013-2014 Season  (Read 115502 times)

Offline Ed

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #240 on: October 25, 2013, 11:20:40 PM »
I think the 3 man central defensive setup has been a way to play both Skrtel and Sakho, whilst being unable to leave Toure out for obvious reasons.
Not forgetting Lucas's recent absences.

Was looking at Arsenal's (we play them soon)  midfield/forward lineup
the other day. Just struck me that it was much more coherent, balanced
than ours.

Still when the coot gets back we have:


                                                                Skrtel/Agger (Combo)
Kelly (Direct/Solid)                                                                                                 X   
                                         Henderson (Energy)    Lucas (Defensive)

                                                           Coutinho (Magician)

                                          ?                                             Suarez (Mayhem)
                                                         Sturridge (Goals)

Think Lucas & Henderson cover the flanks well if it breaks down with the full backs
& would seem difficult to me to drive through them in the centre.

I drag Coutinho back from the 10 position to the midfield because we have
no one there who can beat a man with a trick.

I bring Suarez back a bit too leaving Sturridge up front.

Haven't seen enough of Alberto to know if he'd fit where the ? is. Who
does the pressing (first line of defence) up front these days?

Stevie & Allen can slot in as subs.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 11:21:57 PM by Ed »

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #241 on: October 26, 2013, 09:54:52 AM »
Martin, did you ever see Lucas play for Gremio?

No I didn't. Anyroad, that's in the past and the fact remain Lucas has failed to establish himself at a level that would help our cause. I'm not saying he's no good, just that he doesn't offer what the team need to seriously fight it out for 4th. 
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Offline Tes

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #242 on: October 26, 2013, 10:39:52 AM »
Not forgetting Lucas's recent absences.

Was looking at Arsenal's (we play them soon)  midfield/forward lineup
the other day. Just struck me that it was much more coherent, balanced
than ours.

Still when the coot gets back we have:


                                                                Skrtel/Agger (Combo)
Kelly (Direct/Solid)                                                                                                 X   
                                         Henderson (Energy)    Lucas (Defensive)

                                                           Coutinho (Magician)

                                          ?                                             Suarez (Mayhem)
                                                         Sturridge (Goals)

Think Lucas & Henderson cover the flanks well if it breaks down with the full backs
& would seem difficult to me to drive through them in the centre.

I drag Coutinho back from the 10 position to the midfield because we have
no one there who can beat a man with a trick.

I bring Suarez back a bit too leaving Sturridge up front.

Haven't seen enough of Alberto to know if he'd fit where the ? is. Who
does the pressing (first line of defence) up front these days?

Stevie & Allen can slot in as subs.

Very interesting, Ed, very interesting (said whilst crunching through the end of a pencil to the yummy graphic centre [who needs caramel], in deep concentration and thought, that's if I'm actually capable of such a thing)  :D

Ed, you make an interesting point about the pressing up front, as I was reading an interview with Rodgers last night, where he was bemoaning the fact that playing 3 central defenders only left us with two up top, meaning we weren't able to press as effectively, as high up the pitch and win the ball back both earlier and higher up.
My solution would be change it, you don't need to suffer it, as you're the manager, but then that's probably the anti-Rodgers, non Liverpool manager supporting, non-Liverpool supporting side of my personality, so it must be ignored.

I'm with you on the 'diamond' shape with the top four. A diamond is so flexible in that it can be stretched in terms of height or width or it can be condensed either or both ways also. It's like with moving it back into midfield where you can have a deeper lying defensive midfielder at the foot of the diamond and a more attacking midfielder at the head, squeezing in the two wider midfielders when defending and allowing either width or condensed formation for more quick intricate one-touch passing in combination with the forwards and advanced midfielder.

Another thing you mentioned Ed, I think in another thread was the nature of defenders, ie that they can defend first and foremost. Kelly's an interesting choice in that as a defender he is much better than Johnson, but doesn't have Glenn's ability with the ball at his feet, but you don't neccesarily need to have an attacking full back with the ability of a winger to make him an effective attacking fullback.

I hate to say it but for me Gary Neville was the perfect kind of fullback. Strong defensively but so effective going forward, not because he could beat his man with blinding skill and then whip in the perfect cross, but because he would time his forward run in order to take away the opposition fullback, stopping his teammate in the wider position being doubled up on, or would time his run so that the ball could be slipped into him as he broke past the fullback or wide midfielder (which ever was there) and cross it into the box or pull it back without taking a touch and having to break stride (because of the correct angle and weight of pass). The move would switch direction rapidly twice making it harder to defend against but easy in the attacking sense as both passes/cross is played into space for the attacker running onto.

For such an overtly attacking fullback, Glenn doesn't score enough goals. If you're going to leave yourself open at the back, which happens a lot with Johnson being out of position, the disadvantage of that has to be turned to an advantage by the amount of goals scored and created, thereby offsetting chances and goals conceded at the other end. Allowing the opposition to create chances is nearly as bad as conceding a goal as it allows confidence and belief to build and the more chances conceded, it increases the likelihood of a goal being conceded. The style of play doesn't control the match from just a physical point of view but also a psychological point of view also. Stifle the belief and confidence of the opposition and you have one foot over the winning line. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #243 on: October 26, 2013, 10:44:29 AM »
No I didn't. Anyroad, that's in the past and the fact remain Lucas has failed to establish himself at a level that would help our cause. I'm not saying he's no good, just that he doesn't offer what the team need to seriously fight it out for 4th.

OK, I see your mind is made up (though remember and apply that observation), so I'm not going to entice you into a 'back and forth', so if not Lucas, if he doesn't fit the bill, then who should we sign/use from the squad we have, and what would be the necessary qualities and characteristics required to fit the bill and what would be the role you would want him to play?
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #244 on: October 26, 2013, 02:37:46 PM »
Off to in-laws for dinner so will have to get back to you on that Tes.

Terrible terrible line-up for the WBA game. Both Lucas and Henderson ensure we have zip, zero, nil creativity and offensive quality in the center of the park. This will cost us points I'm afraid.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #245 on: October 26, 2013, 05:26:41 PM »

Terrible terrible line-up for the WBA game. Both Lucas and Henderson ensure we have zip, zero, nil creativity and offensive quality in the center of the park. This will cost us points I'm afraid.

:) Or perhaps defensive strength in midfield allowed our attackers to have a field day?

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #246 on: October 26, 2013, 10:52:12 PM »
:) Or perhaps defensive strength in midfield allowed our attackers to have a field day?

Humble pie for me no doubt. But I take that in return for having witnessed our best performance this season. Lucas was arguably our best player behind Suarez, but then again he always performed brilliantly when the team did the same. Henderson's work ethic is indeed admirable but his ball handling poor as ever. Surely he conceded 10 unforced errors throughout the game. For those who recorded the game please look at his performance of the 79th minute.

Today we were up for it from minute one. Hopefully we can build on this and bring it to the Emirates against what more and more looks like a highly overrated Arsenal.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Ed

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #247 on: October 27, 2013, 02:00:09 AM »
Very interesting, Ed, very interesting (said whilst crunching through the end of a pencil to the yummy graphic centre [who needs caramel], in deep concentration and thought, that's if I'm actually capable of such a thing)  :D
Careful with the lead there!   ;D

Ed, you make an interesting point about the pressing up front, as I was reading an interview with Rodgers last night, where he was bemoaning the fact that playing 3 central defenders only left us with two up top, meaning we weren't able to press as effectively, as high up the pitch and win the ball back both earlier and higher up.
My solution would be change it, you don't need to suffer it, as you're the manager, but then that's probably the anti-Rodgers, non Liverpool manager supporting, non-Liverpool supporting side of my personality, so it must be ignored.
Yeah, this idea of balance - granted we got the result today, Suarez was in the f**king mood &
Sturridge is showing a lot of confidence at the moment. Anyway, that's why I'm perennially suspicious
of Gerrard & Johnson and 3 at the back stuff. I watch Johnson and I'm never sure what the f**k he's
doing on the football pitch, for me he's stuck between being a defender and winger and ends up being
neither imo, which makes me rather uncomfortable. Now granted Kelly is only feeling his way back
today, but immediately I see him making blocks when he's high up the pitch (defender's instinct!) - all
of a sudden himself and Henderson are pressing on that side together.

Similarly with Stevie, I only want to see 30 minutes from him. Sure he has something to offer but he's
not a 90 minute guy for me.  I feel he can inhibit others, upsets the balance and rhythm.

& then this 3 at the back crap. It may have gone unnoticed cos of the result today but West Brom had
their chances. Firstly it's f**king redundant if you have two proper central defenders and a defensive
midfielder. But secondly it messes up all the roles, who's responsible for what back there. Too many cooks.

I'm with you on the 'diamond' shape with the top four.
I'd love to see Coutinho tried in midfield in place of Stevie. Just to have a look at that for 30 minutes. It's
been so long since I've seen a player take a man out of the game in midfield with a trick (Alonso could do it, Molby too).
We seem to be missing a guy on the right there further upfield for the diamond (unless it's supposed to be Alberto).

For such an overtly attacking fullback, Glenn doesn't score enough goals. If you're going to leave yourself open at the back, which happens a lot with Johnson being out of position, the disadvantage of that has to be turned to an advantage by the amount of goals scored and created, thereby offsetting chances and goals conceded at the other end.
Precisely, fancy touches and unusual skill for a defender is no substitute for end product - I'd forgive him if
he was regularly contributing with assist and goals.

On a plus note, was impressed with the substitutions today (though arguably the last two could have come
a little earlier). Need depth and players to be fresh to succeed in the league.

Offline Ed

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #248 on: October 27, 2013, 08:58:37 PM »
Doesn't this hapless dude play for us?  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n05DDVAl1uw

Fair play to him.

Offline Tes

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #249 on: October 29, 2013, 11:26:14 PM »
Lucas was arguably our best player behind Suarez, but then again he always performed brilliantly when the team did the same. Henderson's work ethic is indeed admirable but his ball handling poor as ever. Surely he conceded 10 unforced errors throughout the game. For those who recorded the game please look at his performance of the 79th minute.

Or maybe he provides the base for the team to do well.  :D

Young players, especially those who don't know where they will be asked to play from week to week will make unforced errors, in fact if you were to focus on any player for 90 minutes you will see them. Heavy touches, misplaced passes, underhit passes, poor decision making in the use of the ball. It comes with the territory of being human, and as the game is generally played much quicker in the PL than probably on any other platform of the game the world over, the reduced thinking and execution time will result in more errors.
The human mind can't always reduce it's calculation time just because the situation requires it.
There's no doubt that Henderson is a work in progress and very long way from the finished article, but he's made good improvement in every aspect of his game since his first season. I wish we had a few more like him in terms of grit and determination, and as we've seen a run of games leading to improvement, I think we'd see likewise if he was played in a stable position. It's credit to him that the manager trusts him to play several different positions, and that Henderson never looks annoyed or downcast at being asked to play what he wouldn't regard to be his best position. Maybe the captain could learn a lesson or two from Henderson's attitude.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.


Offline Tes

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #251 on: October 31, 2013, 10:42:07 PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2480788/Boston-Red-Sox-win-World-Series-St-Louis-Cardinals.html

Congratulations to them. Now can we have the same amount of attention paid to us. I bet they don't have to rely on Ian Ayre's equivalent to run the show either.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #252 on: October 31, 2013, 10:43:39 PM »
Why did he have to:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpools-brendan-rodgers-were-title-2662594

Just keep our collective head down until May and see where it gets us. It worked nicely for the tortoise.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 10:44:41 PM by Tes »
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #253 on: November 01, 2013, 06:33:12 AM »
Why did he have to:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpools-brendan-rodgers-were-title-2662594

Just keep our collective head down until May and see where it gets us. It worked nicely for the tortoise.

One day he'll learn Tes, it just ain't going to be any time soon...

Offline Ed

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #254 on: November 01, 2013, 12:36:54 PM »
Just keep our collective head down until May and see where it gets us. It worked nicely for the tortoise.
He didn't actually say it!

http://www.merseyreds.com/2013/10/31/brendan-rodgers-pre-arsenal-press-conference-free-video-2/

I agree though any talk of the TITLE at the beginning of November...