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Author Topic: 2013-2014 Season  (Read 205294 times)

Offline Ed

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #270 on: November 04, 2013, 11:46:57 PM »
Good read indeed. Still wonder what IF any other player than Henderson would've got his chance after 10, or what IF Atkinson didn't disallow our perfect goal after taking that free-kick quickly. Amazing decision really to call it off just to award a yellow.

Anyroad, the most important thing right now is to get back to a back-4. That would allow us to switch between 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 depending on the run of play and whether or not we're on top of things. As it has turned out, the 3-5-2/5-3-2 formation requires too big alterations when it fails (which it will in most games away from home regardless of opposition. Remember Sunderland's domination for periods of the game?).
Yeah was a chastening experience the whole thing. The
problem with the 3 at the back is it may work at home against
lower teams, but it fudges the notion of a two CB combination
and it seems strange to me that Arsenal could effectively contain
two strikers with a more traditional 2 CBs and a DM while we looked
ridiculous with 3 CBs up against 1 striker.

Anyway, barring the derby, which is probably going to turn out to be
the significant battle for us this season - what I thought the Arsenal
game might have been -  our next big assignment is away to Spurs.
I note Cox has also been doing some research there:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/03/tottenham

I'll leave it to Tes to sort this one out:



My pencil needs sharpening and the cat destroyed my slippers!  :)

Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #271 on: November 06, 2013, 11:58:29 AM »
I see we're linked with Cabaye from Newcastle...he might be a useful addition to our midfield...if we got him and another quality player...and let aspas, alberto and allen (does rodgers use a alphabetical index on transfer targets?) all go...then we might salvage 5th from this season...if we repeat the jan transfer window of last season...then we might, just might be in with a shout...

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #272 on: November 06, 2013, 12:16:02 PM »
I see we're linked with Cabaye from Newcastle...he might be a useful addition to our midfield...if we got him and another quality player...and let aspas, alberto and allen (does rodgers use a alphabetical index on transfer targets?) all go...then we might salvage 5th from this season...if we repeat the jan transfer window of last season...then we might, just might be in with a shout...

I don't doubt Cabayé's qualities, but I do wish were looking for midfielders of a different built. I'm much more into the Diamé, Wanyama, Dembele kind. Players who can dominate the center of the field by their sheer physical presence.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Ed

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #273 on: November 07, 2013, 12:10:23 AM »
then we might salvage 5th from this season...
With all the talk about top 4 (and always keep
in mind our diminished fixture list this season,
virtually paired back to the bare minimum of 38
games). I can't for the life of me see us mounting
a campaign in the CL next season, I'd be gobsmacked.

People can talk all day about first 11s when fully fit, but
Arsenal have been playing CL every season for the last
decade. For us, the game last Saturday was massive. For
them, more like a tricky fixture (warm-up) in a sequence of
bigger tests.

& given our seeming unpreparedness (Squad, tactics) for away
at the Emirates, it's self-evident that this time next season we
are unlikely to be troubling Europe's elite in the CL.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #274 on: November 07, 2013, 09:41:00 AM »
For us, the game last Saturday was massive. For
them, more like a tricky fixture (warm-up) in a sequence of
bigger tests.

It's funny how two people can see the same thing so differently. For me it was the other way round. It was more a test for us, whereas three consecutive homedefeats for them could've seen the wheels come off.
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Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #275 on: November 07, 2013, 12:03:47 PM »
.

People can talk all day about first 11s when fully fit, but
Arsenal have been playing CL every season for the last
decade. For us, the game last Saturday was massive. For
them, more like a tricky fixture (warm-up) in a sequence of
bigger tests.

& given our seeming unpreparedness (Squad, tactics) for away
at the Emirates, it's self-evident that this time next season we
are unlikely to be troubling Europe's elite in the CL.

I think we have suarez and sturridge but need another quality striker...
in midfield we have lucas, coutinho and perhaps gerrard as an impact player...cos he aint getting younger..
in defence we need a left sided defender ...but we're ok with agger, skrtel, toure, kelly, johnson, sakho...
so with that in mind it means we have about 8 quality players...our midfield is horribly lightweight as arsenal showed...
the problem is that missing 3 of quality is what will make us struggle in the future...

as for any talk of the champions league...it would mean massive investment...
midfield is key....and a defensive midfielder essential like wanyama...2 wingers and another attacking midifielder like cabaye would be ideal...
another attacker is essential...
and a good left sided defender would be essential..
that is if we get top 4...cos one stupid loss to fulham and the others win...we'd be sitting in 7th and all nonsense talk of titles would hopefully peter out...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 12:06:55 PM by barticus »

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #276 on: November 08, 2013, 09:13:23 AM »
I think we have suarez and sturridge but need another quality striker...
in midfield we have lucas, coutinho and perhaps gerrard as an impact player...cos he aint getting younger..
in defence we need a left sided defender ...but we're ok with agger, skrtel, toure, kelly, johnson, sakho...
so with that in mind it means we have about 8 quality players...our midfield is horribly lightweight as arsenal showed...
the problem is that missing 3 of quality is what will make us struggle in the future...

as for any talk of the champions league...it would mean massive investment...
midfield is key....and a defensive midfielder essential like wanyama...2 wingers and another attacking midifielder like cabaye would be ideal...
another attacker is essential...
and a good left sided defender would be essential..
that is if we get top 4...cos one stupid loss to fulham and the others win...we'd be sitting in 7th and all nonsense talk of titles would hopefully peter out...

While wins tomorrow and @ Goodison while Arsenal lose to the Mancs and draw against So'ton will see us joint top. Why the doom and gloom? It's not like Rodgers haven't made tactical mistakes before and recovered from it rapidly.
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Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #277 on: November 08, 2013, 02:04:04 PM »
While wins tomorrow and @ Goodison while Arsenal lose to the Mancs and draw against So'ton will see us joint top. Why the doom and gloom? It's not like Rodgers haven't made tactical mistakes before and recovered from it rapidly.

note to self: have a look at martinmarx's pregame comment against west brom...aka we're doomed!!
nothing has convinced me in rodgers tenure that he is vaguely tactically astute...it's all very well being good against the lower teams...but until we start to win against the top 4 teams and regain our position (in the top 4) then we can start saying he can be ok on tactics...with suarez and sturridge in a certain mood our team will win...
did you see sturridge's disgust at the lack of the pass in the 86th minute against bottom.nal...said it all...depsite rodgers 3 at the back with luck we could have got something out of the game...
but we can't rely on luck and chance and if the moon is in a correct position...
we need 2 world class midfielders..in jan...cos i still don't see us getting anywhere near the top...
it's not doom and gloom...just solid realism...

Offline Ed

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #278 on: November 09, 2013, 11:10:20 AM »
nothing has convinced me in rodgers tenure that he is vaguely tactically astute...it's all very well being good against the lower teams...but until we start to win against the top 4 teams and regain our position (in the top 4) then we can start saying he can be ok on tactics...
Agree.

Home to Fulham should be comfortable (though I note
they scored a few crackers against Crystal Palace, I think).

I feel fans get confused because the press love a manager
from this part of the world who experiments with formations,
formation w*nk - instead of keeping things simple and getting
results with what you have.

They get sick of the likes of Wenger, Benitez, Mourinho, Pellegrini,
Villas Boas, Martinez etc.. being the tactical ones.

Hence Rodgers gets an easy ride. Terms such as 'brave' are bandied
about.

As Bart says, with a player like Suarez in the mix, we don't need
much tactics at home against lower opposition. I haven't been
impressed with us away from home, at all, this season. The Swansea
game made me wince.

The match against Arsenal was a perfect example of a big game
where he had to think on his feet (with Johnson's illness) and
it was suspect decision-making - could just as easily be the scenario
last season where the lad got sent off Man Utd. v. Madrid - sh.it happens,
where's the plan?

Last season's European campaign was full of quirky decisions.

His dithering over defence and loyalty to Gerrard are other areas where
he appears to lack the confidence to make decisions.

Ultimately, Rodgers talent will bring us to a point where he can take us
no further and we'll need to bring in a top guy (I'm keeping an eagle eye
on Sami's Leverkusen). Essentially he is a career manager, bit like
a career politician, mates with everyone in the game, a guy who aims
to be managing football teams (not serially winning trophies) for, as he says
himself, the next 20 to 25 years.

It's not a question of him being a bad, average and some would say good manager,
it's just he doesn't have the X-factor character to break monopolies (instead of being
broken by them).

& sure look, every manager in the division will say if they had the players or the resources.
It's not about that.

Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #279 on: November 09, 2013, 11:41:02 AM »

Ultimately, Rodgers talent will bring us to a point where he can take us
no further and we'll need to bring in a top guy (I'm keeping an eagle eye
on Sami's Leverkusen). Essentially he is a career manager, bit like
a career politician, mates with everyone in the game, a guy who aims
to be managing football teams (not serially winning trophies) for, as he says
himself, the next 20 to 25 years.

It's not a question of him being a bad, average and some would say good manager,
it's just he doesn't have the X-factor character to break monopolies (instead of being
broken by them).


Bang on....
on a jungian analysis 'wanting to be liked' is the ego talking...and i've seen a lot of signs that rodgers ego is who's in control....the big portrait, the need to speak to increase his fame on inane shed that he should keep well out of and the talk that he's here as saviour to Liverpool fc ...you can control the ego...and i'd advise rodgers to read jung to do so...

once he has control of his ego...then he can break all the rules...and which is what Liverpool football club should be all about...

Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #280 on: November 09, 2013, 05:23:06 PM »
Thank gawd we went back to 4-4-2....Agger even played! Have seen nothing of the game or highlights or even writeups but at least we got rid of the crappy 3 at the back...

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #281 on: November 09, 2013, 06:32:10 PM »
Hence Rodgers gets an easy ride. Terms such as 'brave' are bandied
about.

As Bart says, with a player like Suarez in the mix, we don't need
much tactics at home against lower opposition. I haven't been
impressed with us away from home, at all, this season. The Swansea
game made me wince.

The match against Arsenal was a perfect example of a big game
where he had to think on his feet (with Johnson's illness) and
it was suspect decision-making - could just as easily be the scenario
last season where the lad got sent off Man Utd. v. Madrid - sh.it happens,
where's the plan?

Last season's European campaign was full of quirky decisions.

His dithering over defence and loyalty to Gerrard are other areas where
he appears to lack the confidence to make decisions.

Ultimately, Rodgers talent will bring us to a point where he can take us
no further and we'll need to bring in a top guy (I'm keeping an eagle eye
on Sami's Leverkusen). Essentially he is a career manager, bit like
a career politician, mates with everyone in the game, a guy who aims
to be managing football teams (not serially winning trophies) for, as he says
himself, the next 20 to 25 years.

It's not a question of him being a bad, average and some would say good manager,
it's just he doesn't have the X-factor character to break monopolies (instead of being
broken by them).

& sure look, every manager in the division will say if they had the players or the resources.
It's not about that.

That's the most scornful, condescending and arrogant post I ever read on a Liverpool forum. I take it your proud of the way you "support" the club and its manager. It can't be easy sitting around with the answers to EVERYTHING.

If your failed and egoistic hero Rafa had repeated the same run Rodgers did since January 1st you would no doubt claim he's a greated manager than Shankly, Sir Bob and Fergie.

4-0 in your face. LMFAO.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Ed

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #282 on: November 09, 2013, 06:51:40 PM »
4-0 in your face. LMFAO.
What are u mumbling about, we knew it'd be
easy today vs. Fulham. I said so earlier.

Home to Fulham should be comfortable
More important is the first clean sheet in ages. I wonder
if that has anything to do with Skrtel & Agger back playing
together in a two-man, something we've been on about
in here for ages?


Still when the coot gets back we have:


                                                                Skrtel/Agger (Combo)

Offline Edward224

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #283 on: November 09, 2013, 11:01:19 PM »
Think on his feet and you give the example last week of Johnson who was ill at the last moment. Well seeing as we were away in London and could only bring 18 players he had two choices in reality. Play Toure or Skrtel at right back or play Flanagan at right back.

Now I watched that game and for me Flanagan acquit himself quite well in that game.

You say the press love a man who is from that part of the world who messes about with formations and instead of keeping it simple. Well what do you constitute as messing about? because if you remember a certain player was banned for 6 games so we had to play a certain formation to take that into account. Then when he comes back we change the formation from a four to a three at the back. So he's changed the formation twice then.........so that's messing about in your mind.

Well in my mind have different formations for different opponents is a good thing and I am glad to see Brendan has the confidence to change formations when he sees fit - whether I agree with them or not is a different matter - however results suggest that he is coping fine with his changes to formation.

I've never seen the word brave been bandied about us during Rodgers tenure. Please provide a link. Oh and Rodgers getting a free ride? a big LOL didn't you see the criticism of him when he was wanting to sign Sturridge saying Sturridge is overrated and what not. Didn't you see criticism he got for bringing in that old has been Kolo Toure. Didn't you see the stick he got when in 2012 we started off poorly. However since January 2013 there hasn't been much to criticise because, you know, we are performing and winning games.

"with a player like Suarez in the mix, we don't need much tactics at home against lower opposition."

Lol so under the King and under Rafa when we drew almost as many games as we won at Anfield against lesser opposition we didn't need much tactics because we have Gerrard/Torres and Kenny had Suarez???? Of course you need tactics against them you fool. You need to decide if you want to press high up the pitch, or be compact. Whether to play it into the wide areas more often. Whether its better to pack the midfield in because the opposition will most probably only play one up front. No we just let the players get on with it because we don't need much tactics......... :-X

You I haven't been impressed with us away from home, at all, this season. That makes two of us then because neither have I. I happen to believe its mainly down to playing 3 at the back which exposes our midfield. Swansea game was the debut for Sakho so a little leeway is needed for that. But after a good 1st half performance the players didn't press like that did second half.


Yes last season in europe was full of quirky decisions but then again did we have the squad to cope with that and compete for a top 4 place in the league? Rodgers also was new to this and I happen to think will have learned a great deal from it - I say this because he has shown an aptitude for learning from his mistakes already so I see no reason he won't if we  are in europe again next year. Had Sturridge and Coutinho been available from the start of that campaign things may have been different.

"His dithering over defence and loyalty to Gerrard are other areas where he appears to lack the confidence to make decisions."

Firstly the defence. As I stated in this post he made change in tactics from a 4 to a 3 to see if it makes the SAS a better partnership, which it clearly did. However I was and am not a big fan of 3 at the back but results suggest that this change didn't have a bad affect on results. In terms of personnel well until today he's stuck with Toure. Sakho has been an ever present since he came in and Agger to until he got injured and Skrtel too his place. Skrtel to his credit has taken his chance and done well so Agger, quite rightly, has had to wait for his opportunity back into the team. That is of course unless you want to say that you don't care about form and what not just select what you perceive as the best players. Form doesn't count in your book. Nor probably does fatigue I guess....

Loyalty to Gerrard? I agree with you. Which may surprise you but I agree with you. He is being too loyal to Gerrard. However here is where I branch off from your stance. I see it from the point of view that Brendan knows the day he drops Gerrard he'll get it full throttle from the media and the supporters - in some quarters who can't see that Gerrard's legs have gone. Brendan is playing a coy game. He knows that he has to be careful in this situation. We've seen a better manager being sacked in Benitez because Gerrard wanted him gone. So he's being coy. Anyway I still think Gerrard can do for us what Pirlo does for Juventus. Gerrard's legs have gone but still possess's that killer pass and game intelligence to have a role. But as the saying goes until Gerrard himself realises his legs have gone then he still see himself as this box to box player. So I think Brendan is playing the smart game with Gerrard actually. But I agree he is being too loyal. But like an addict the first and hardest step is to admit that you are one. Until Gerrard admits to himself that he isn't the player he used to be and that his legs have gone, Brendan will have to play the smart game with him.

Brendan's talent can take us to the Premier league and CL. I no zero doubts about that. So you see Sami, a guy with lesser experience than Brendan as being a top guy? Hey I love Sami and he IS a top guy but he isn't a top manager either - and Brendan hasn't proven he is either before you bark at me. But Brendan has proved that he learns from his mistakes and he has proved he can instill an philosophy into the squad.

What the hell is a  career manager?! Don't all managers want a long a prosperous career in management. Or you do you mean a career manager is one who changes jobs every couple of years ala Mourinho and Ancelotti. Well firstly all managers are career managers and secondly  I believe Brendan ultimate aim is to manage England have them playing to a philosophy that we are seeing at Liverpool and saw at Swansea. He wants more english players learning to play that way. So for sure I believe that is his ultimate aim.

Am I bothered by that? no because if he is in a position for that it must mean he is doing something right for us and I also don't see him going until we have established ourselves in the CL and won a few trophies and not least the premier league. I genuinely think Brendan will win us the league in the next 3-4 years.

He doesn't have x factor? Well if who has the x factor? In my mind currently only two men have that Guardiola and Mourinho and no way in hell do I want Mourinho here. Does Moyes have the x factor? does Wenger? does Ancelotti? Ask Real Madrid supporters if you think Ancelotti has the x factor and they'll laugh at you. He's played FIVE formations already in madrid so God knows what you'd say if he was here and did that!

Of course its about players and resources!! Or is it just coincidence that the best resourced teams wins the majority of trophies!!!!!

There are four key components to win trophies. Manager. Players. Resources and Time. IMO we have 2 1/2 out of the four. We have the manager and FSG will give him time. A quarter each to resources and players. Once the stadium refurbishment is done we'll be able to compete fully with others in england.

Offline Ed

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #284 on: November 10, 2013, 12:01:07 AM »
Think on his feet and you give the example last week of Johnson who was ill at the last moment. Well seeing as we were away in London and could only bring 18 players he had two choices in reality. Play Toure or Skrtel at right back or play Flanagan at right back.

Now I watched that game and for me Flanagan acquit himself quite well in that game.

You say the press love a man who is from that part of the world who messes about with formations and instead of keeping it simple. Well what do you constitute as messing about? because if you remember a certain player was banned for 6 games so we had to play a certain formation to take that into account. Then when he comes back we change the formation from a four to a three at the back. So he's changed the formation twice then.........so that's messing about in your mind.

Well in my mind have different formations for different opponents is a good thing and I am glad to see Brendan has the confidence to change formations when he sees fit - whether I agree with them or not is a different matter - however results suggest that he is coping fine with his changes to formation.

I've never seen the word brave been bandied about us during Rodgers tenure. Please provide a link. Oh and Rodgers getting a free ride? a big LOL didn't you see the criticism of him when he was wanting to sign Sturridge saying Sturridge is overrated and what not. Didn't you see criticism he got for bringing in that old has been Kolo Toure. Didn't you see the stick he got when in 2012 we started off poorly. However since January 2013 there hasn't been much to criticise because, you know, we are performing and winning games.

"with a player like Suarez in the mix, we don't need much tactics at home against lower opposition."

Lol so under the King and under Rafa when we drew almost as many games as we won at Anfield against lesser opposition we didn't need much tactics because we have Gerrard/Torres and Kenny had Suarez???? Of course you need tactics against them you fool. You need to decide if you want to press high up the pitch, or be compact. Whether to play it into the wide areas more often. Whether its better to pack the midfield in because the opposition will most probably only play one up front. No we just let the players get on with it because we don't need much tactics......... :-X

You I haven't been impressed with us away from home, at all, this season. That makes two of us then because neither have I. I happen to believe its mainly down to playing 3 at the back which exposes our midfield. Swansea game was the debut for Sakho so a little leeway is needed for that. But after a good 1st half performance the players didn't press like that did second half.


Yes last season in europe was full of quirky decisions but then again did we have the squad to cope with that and compete for a top 4 place in the league? Rodgers also was new to this and I happen to think will have learned a great deal from it - I say this because he has shown an aptitude for learning from his mistakes already so I see no reason he won't if we  are in europe again next year. Had Sturridge and Coutinho been available from the start of that campaign things may have been different.

"His dithering over defence and loyalty to Gerrard are other areas where he appears to lack the confidence to make decisions."

Firstly the defence. As I stated in this post he made change in tactics from a 4 to a 3 to see if it makes the SAS a better partnership, which it clearly did. However I was and am not a big fan of 3 at the back but results suggest that this change didn't have a bad affect on results. In terms of personnel well until today he's stuck with Toure. Sakho has been an ever present since he came in and Agger to until he got injured and Skrtel too his place. Skrtel to his credit has taken his chance and done well so Agger, quite rightly, has had to wait for his opportunity back into the team. That is of course unless you want to say that you don't care about form and what not just select what you perceive as the best players. Form doesn't count in your book. Nor probably does fatigue I guess....

Loyalty to Gerrard? I agree with you. Which may surprise you but I agree with you. He is being too loyal to Gerrard. However here is where I branch off from your stance. I see it from the point of view that Brendan knows the day he drops Gerrard he'll get it full throttle from the media and the supporters - in some quarters who can't see that Gerrard's legs have gone. Brendan is playing a coy game. He knows that he has to be careful in this situation. We've seen a better manager being sacked in Benitez because Gerrard wanted him gone. So he's being coy. Anyway I still think Gerrard can do for us what Pirlo does for Juventus. Gerrard's legs have gone but still possess's that killer pass and game intelligence to have a role. But as the saying goes until Gerrard himself realises his legs have gone then he still see himself as this box to box player. So I think Brendan is playing the smart game with Gerrard actually. But I agree he is being too loyal. But like an addict the first and hardest step is to admit that you are one. Until Gerrard admits to himself that he isn't the player he used to be and that his legs have gone, Brendan will have to play the smart game with him.

Brendan's talent can take us to the Premier league and CL. I no zero doubts about that. So you see Sami, a guy with lesser experience than Brendan as being a top guy? Hey I love Sami and he IS a top guy but he isn't a top manager either - and Brendan hasn't proven he is either before you bark at me. But Brendan has proved that he learns from his mistakes and he has proved he can instill an philosophy into the squad.

What the hell is a  career manager?! Don't all managers want a long a prosperous career in management. Or you do you mean a career manager is one who changes jobs every couple of years ala Mourinho and Ancelotti. Well firstly all managers are career managers and secondly  I believe Brendan ultimate aim is to manage England have them playing to a philosophy that we are seeing at Liverpool and saw at Swansea. He wants more english players learning to play that way. So for sure I believe that is his ultimate aim.

Am I bothered by that? no because if he is in a position for that it must mean he is doing something right for us and I also don't see him going until we have established ourselves in the CL and won a few trophies and not least the premier league. I genuinely think Brendan will win us the league in the next 3-4 years.

He doesn't have x factor? Well if who has the x factor? In my mind currently only two men have that Guardiola and Mourinho and no way in hell do I want Mourinho here. Does Moyes have the x factor? does Wenger? does Ancelotti? Ask Real Madrid supporters if you think Ancelotti has the x factor and they'll laugh at you. He's played FIVE formations already in madrid so God knows what you'd say if he was here and did that!

Of course its about players and resources!! Or is it just coincidence that the best resourced teams wins the majority of trophies!!!!!

There are four key components to win trophies. Manager. Players. Resources and Time. IMO we have 2 1/2 out of the four. We have the manager and FSG will give him time. A quarter each to resources and players. Once the stadium refurbishment is done we'll be able to compete fully with others in england.

224, I'm somewhat impressed that you are finally
engaging in debate on here.

Your point of view is welcome.

See my stuff is reasonably hardline, I demand high
standards. I offer a point of view which steers clear
from often more predictable fan-type views
you get elsewhere. It works as a sounding board.

I'm not saying I'm Rodgers number 1 fan (it's clear I'm not),
but at the same time, I've not called for his head & am
quite patient in that regard.

That's why the Dude was priceless on here, because he was
a wee bit more hardline than me, Tes a little less so but us 3
generally agree and could play some neat triangles of merciless
criticism  :) Often with Bart doing a DM role, watching our backs.

Juan & Marx are over the other side (haven't seen ASI in ages, the
negativity puts him off, i think).

It's views and opinion, an online kickabout.