February 25, 2020, 09:47:21 PM

Author Topic: 2013-2014 Season  (Read 164178 times)

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #450 on: January 22, 2014, 11:10:08 AM »
You're a man of quick and dramatic conclusions my friend. I don't think we're being penetrated in any way, shape or form at all, because of Lucas' injury. Fair enough it won't help our cause and as such it is a blow to us. But we've overcome injuries to far more important and instrumental players than him this season and managed to cope with it quite well. There's 2 games where his talents will be sorely missed and that's So´ton and ManU away. Against the top teams at home we won't need him as much as we did in the reverse fixtures away. Again, I'm not saying he won't be missed or that his injury doesn't represent a blow, I'm just saying his injury isn't the be all end all you make it out to be regarding our chances to finish in the top 4.
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Offline Edward224

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #451 on: January 22, 2014, 11:07:15 PM »
Lucas said on twitter it's a few weeks not a few months so some slight relief there.

Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #452 on: January 23, 2014, 06:36:01 AM »
So Martin who have we got as cover for Lucas? I don't want to see Gerrard there after that horror show on Saturday, so any suggestions? Have we got any youngsters who can fill his boots?
New reports now that Chelsea are in for Salah, so while we've been dithering for 2 months or so, i wouldn't be at all surprised if we lose out.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #453 on: January 23, 2014, 06:52:35 AM »
As I tried to say Bart, unlike you I'm not that sure we'll need cover for Lucas in a majority of the games. Rodgers is the first manager to realise he offers next to nothing in certain games while carrying a priceless tag in other.

And lose out we will as Chelsea has made it their priority to prevent a move for Salah to us. We can't compete with money. I hate them chavs with a passion and wish all of them the worst possible. So fed up with this. The only good thing to take from it is that we're obviously tracking the right players. Totally gutted with money's role in football.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 06:54:01 AM by Martinmarx »
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Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #454 on: January 23, 2014, 06:56:59 AM »
As I tried to say Bart, unlike you I'm not that sure we'll need cover for Lucas in a majority of the games. Rodgers is the first manager to realise he offers next to nothing in certain games while carrying a priceless tag in other.

And lose out we will as Chelsea has made it their priority to prevent a move for Salah to us. We can't compete with money. I hate them chavs with a passion and wish all of them the worst possible. So fed up with this. The only good thing to take from it is that we're obviously tracking the right players. Totally gutted with money's role in football.

But if we'd got Salah signed, sealed and delivered on the 1st of January, then Chelsea wouldn't have had the chance..we're dithering around like we did with Mkhitaryan and it's all looking very predictable...

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #455 on: January 23, 2014, 10:04:19 AM »
But if we'd got Salah signed, sealed and delivered on the 1st of January, then Chelsea wouldn't have had the chance..we're dithering around like we did with Mkhitaryan and it's all looking very predictable...

That would be the obvious take on it. I have a feeling though, things are a bit more complicated than that lest you'd be assuming the club's recruitment team are sitting back rolling their thumbs just for the sake of it. Of that I think we can agree that's not the case.

It's easy to pass judgement on the club but the fact of the matter is it has to deal with and balance two factors that goes a long way to restrain our freedom of action. Firstly, there's the financial situation where our budget is clearly limited in comparison with a number of clubs. Secondly, and as a result, our manouevering space within the FFP-framework adds to the fact there's a huge gap between what the club ideally would want to do, and what it in fact is capable of doing.

Again, it's obvious we have a very very good scouting team. This is the 4th player we've spotted other European/PL-clubs finally wants to add to their respective squads. Even if the Chavs gets this one it will be the last in a long time as it no doubt will change how other clubs go about their business in the transfer market. I wold also say, once we're in the CL we'll hit an upward spiral of sorts.  :D
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #456 on: January 23, 2014, 04:09:49 PM »
it's obvious we have a very very good scouting team.

what experience of bringing success to any previous club do Dave Fallows and Barry Hunter have?

I suggest that Bart, Tes and myself could do as well, if not better.

In my opinion, top modern-day scouts are a rare and protected species.

Today, it is all about databases and, if you are a top club, you recruit from other top teams (thus we often recruit from Barca or Chelsea)....in doing that, you know you are getting a technical player of a certain level.

if we had genuine top scouts, we'd be finding young kevin keegans, or ian rushes......or the european equivalent.

Instead, we are just picking through the same list of available players (who are unhappy, or near the end of their contracts, or their club needs money quickly) as the rest of the clubs.   It's database driven.  There are very few Graham Carrs around (the scout at Newcastle). 

oh for a modern day Geoff Twentyman.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 04:10:53 PM by the dude abides »
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #457 on: January 23, 2014, 04:13:25 PM »
But if we'd got Salah signed, sealed and delivered on the 1st of January, then Chelsea wouldn't have had the chance..we're dithering around like we did with Mkhitaryan and it's all looking very predictable...

exactly.

it's the teasing (of what we might have had) that does for me.

Mkhitaryan would have been a helluva signing.
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Offline Edward224

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #458 on: January 23, 2014, 05:41:40 PM »
"Since this one is basically as good as over for us, there is no harm in pointing out some details about this transfer to let the you know how much we fucked up during this transfer as my source is as close to the player as you can get.

First of all, let me tell you that I'm not a fan of the club overpaying by any stretch, I hate it when clubs like City or Chelsea pay over the top fees for the likes of Lescott or Shaun Wright Phillips cause that means the market is inflated. However, just because the market is inflated doesn't mean that there are some players out there who are worth a good chunk of money to be paid for.

There is also a fine line between being too smart and being too smart for your own good, I didn't exactly followed the ins & outs of our other negotiation models with the other targets in the summer but there is a pattern developing of us missing out on first targets like Dempsey, Mkhitaryan, Costa, Willian and bar a miracle now, Salah. It is hard to properly judge the transfer committee plus I feel for the scouts who have their hard work cut out for when a club comes in and gets the players we have been following for months.

Now we were following Salah closely since October, we sent a lot of scouts to Basel games, began negotiating in November and his agent met with Ayre in the West Ham game to discuss terms with them. We had a verbal agreement with Basel regarding everything and we quickly became Salah's favoured destination as he saw us as a club where he can grow, get a lot of 1st team action and become a world class player. I don't know what happened between Salah's agent and Ayre, but the impression that the club got from that meeting was that, in reality there is no way Salah is going to leave for anyone bar Liverpool and/or there are no real offers on the table for Basel bar us. When we got to sending Basel our opening offer, it was a laughable offer well below what was verbally agreed upon, think of Wenger 40 million plus one pound bid, this was even more laughable.

Basel raised their as a result of being pissed off. We tried to up our offer but it was again well below what was previously agreed upon and Basel didn't want to lower their demands as they sensed that we were wasting their time. They even began courting other clubs that Salah is available. Milan & Inter thought that Basel's original demands were too high for them, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg & Monchengladbach were ready to pay but Salah didn't want to go to Germany. Basel tried to claim that Atletico was interested but it was a bluff by all accounts, however a host of other clubs wanted to be kept updated on the deal one of whom was Chelsea.

Since we saw that Salah didn't want to go to the Bundesliga and with no other club offering Basel any offer, we assumed he'll stay there till the summer and we can re-open negotiations, but Newcastle offered Basel a good first offer and now him coming to us in the summer was in doubt if Basel & Newcastle agree a fee. That's why we came back with a much more improved offer, almost what was verbally agreed upon before the window even started. Salah's personal demands were also agreed previously so there was no problems with him & his agent, just us agreeing some minor details with Basel. Chelsea, who were updated on the deal, at last asked about his availability and Basel asked about 8 million more than what we were offering (they tried to fleece Chelsea and I'm sorry last night I got confused cause I misunderstood my source as telling me Chelsea offered 8 million more, which isn't true) but Chelsea really offered a couple of million more than us but with a lot of add ons that favour Basel heavily, we didn't even hesitate and backed off, not even matching their deal.

The only thing stopping Salah from going to Chelsea is that he doesn't want to go there, full stop. Him & his advisers believe he won't get much playing time there and if it is in his hands, it is better to stay at Basel and wait till the summer to get his move, however Basel want to sell & get their money now and begin scouting their next target (who will also be from Egypt). There is a third club who asked for Salah's availability (my source won't tell me cause Salah doesn't want this to go public as he prefers to join that third club over Chelsea and doesn't want a repeat of the fiasco surrounding his negotiations with Liverpool) but like I said barring a miracle, most probably he won't be our player come the end of the window.

What makes this irritating is that we wasted three months of scouting him, weeks of negotiations and then tried to lowball Basel and looked stupid at the end when we fell flat on our arses. Board wise, there have to be some questions asked about how good we are at negotiating some deals."

Is what a close source to Salah said on another forum.

No surprise though as we all know Ian Ayre is totally inept.

Only saving grace in Salah going to Chelsea is that he isn't a left back or a central midfielder otherwise I'd be fuming with anger. Right now I'm just fuming  :D

Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #459 on: January 23, 2014, 06:55:11 PM »
So now we know why Johnson has been pretty poor this season...just like Joe Allen last season. WTF is the point of playing a half fit player when we could give Martin Kelly a run or another youngster? And as it's been known for a while why haven't prepared for Johnson's rest period. The mind boggles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzsFHkdpMSE

Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #460 on: January 23, 2014, 07:12:25 PM »
So we've been mincing about for 3 months or so and Chelsea take a day. Class stuff.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2544224/Chelsea-rival-Liverpool-Basle-forward-Mohamed-Salah.html


Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #461 on: January 23, 2014, 07:24:03 PM »
So we've been mincing about for 3 months or so and Chelsea take a day. Class stuff.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2544224/Chelsea-rival-Liverpool-Basle-forward-Mohamed-Salah.html

You base that on what? Ed's post? The one without any reference? The one that I could write myself in less than an hour if I had the urge? As you said, class stuff!
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #462 on: January 23, 2014, 07:38:11 PM »
On another note. Fair enough, we've conceded a few more goals than any of us would've liked. At the same time and in fairness it ain't that bad. We've conceded 28 from 22 games. That's 9 more than current leaders Arsenal (outscoring them by 10), 3 more than current runner's up City. My point, however, is that if we'd been as fortunate as Arsenal's been with injuries I Think we'd been much better off both goals-conceded and pointswise. Here goes.

Toure started off brilliantly only to get injured after 3-4 games. Same with Glen Johnson who really stood out in the opening 4 games before being sidelined for 6 weeks. Up on Johnson's return it was evident Enrique suffered from knee problems and would need surgery. Add to that Agger's usual in's and out's of the team. 4 games is all young Flanagan was allowed until injury struck him too. And then Sakho, the best defensive signing I've seen since Hyppiä gets sidelined for 6-7 games. And now Johnson's out "indefinitely".

I'm not making excuses but it would've been interesting to know how our games would've developed and how many goals we would've conceded if we would've been able to play an in-form and gelled back 4 of Johnson, Skrtel/Agger, Sakho, Enrique?

Just to put things into perspective.
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Offline barticus

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #463 on: January 23, 2014, 07:40:42 PM »
You base that on what? Ed's post? The one without any reference? The one that I could write myself in less than an hour if I had the urge? As you said, class stuff!

Er, no Martin...believe it or not i can form an opinion without Edwards help. We've been linked with Salah since at least November if not before and the first fecking time we heard of Chelsea's involvement was yesterday...aka my summation of 3 months for us (november, december and january) and a day for Chelski...
is that ok with you?

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: 2013-2014 Season
« Reply #464 on: January 23, 2014, 08:06:33 PM »
Er, no Martin...believe it or not i can form an opinion without Edwards help. We've been linked with Salah since at least November if not before and the first fecking time we heard of Chelsea's involvement was yesterday...aka my summation of 3 months for us (november, december and january) and a day for Chelski...
is that ok with you?

That's perfectly fine with me mate, as long as you aknowledge there's other factors involved such as Basel and Salah himself as you make it sound as if both club and player was actually paying us to take him onboard. Unless, of course, you take that text Ed posted at face value. I'm totally pissed off but if Chelsea really, really wanted the player they wouldn't wait until January 22nd to act. It's more a case of acting like a big stack bully IMHO. We need to lift ourselves and move on and realise for the first time in decades we're spotting the right players. Sooner or later we'll get them!  :)
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