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Author Topic: Season 2014/15  (Read 281479 times)

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #135 on: September 13, 2014, 07:31:46 PM »
Man that was bad.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #136 on: September 13, 2014, 07:48:25 PM »
the least said the better (about that pig ugly showing).
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #137 on: September 13, 2014, 11:03:36 PM »
Too many new players who'd either never or hardly ever played together.

"We will always concede more as we play so openly". I wonder what the excuse reason will be now.

We didn't play open attacking football, and still we can't defend. Maybe some pride needs to be swallowed and some help brought in as it's becoming more and more obvious that there is no-one in the coaching/management staff that can organise us defensively or change what needs changing.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #138 on: September 13, 2014, 11:51:20 PM »
First of all congrats to Villa on what will be their best performance of the season. You can now lay down and get ready to fight relegation, because you will.

Out of the title race after 4 games. It goes a long way to show last season was, after all, a one off. True there were many new players but the lack of competence and quality was alarming. One created chance in 90 minutes against a shitty side (yes they are a fornicating shitty side) makes me realise next season we may be without European footy again.

Worst of all, after 30 minutes you could feel in every fiber in your body we weren't gonna score. I'm fornicating giving up on this. Coutinho, Gerrard and Henderson were all shambolic.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #139 on: September 14, 2014, 12:47:16 PM »
First of all congrats to Villa on what will be their best performance of the season. You can now lay down and get ready to fight relegation, because you will.

Out of the title race after 4 games. It goes a long way to show last season was, after all, a one off. True there were many new players but the lack of competence and quality was alarming. One created chance in 90 minutes against a shitty side (yes they are a fornicating shitty side) makes me realise next season we may be without European footy again.

Worst of all, after 30 minutes you could feel in every fiber in your body we weren't gonna score. I'm fornicating giving up on this. Coutinho, Gerrard and Henderson were all shambolic.

Martin, if we're realistic we massively overachieved last season in coming close to winning the title. Additionally, although we had a weaker squad than our competitors we had a clear run at the league only.

We were/are unlikely to actually compete for the league again this season, considering the added games (which I realise don't apply at the moment), the loss of a player like Suarez from a squad of our size and level of quality, and the fact we've chosen to make a lot of purchases and they all need time to settle and gel, both individually and collectively.

If we look at the number of new players, debutees, players returning from injury and the number of games that entire starting 11 has actually played together, then it's not too surprising that they looked somewhat disjointed, however, the amount of poor individual performances were worrying. I can accept players being unfamiliar with each other, but not their own individual roles and their ability to carry out the basics of football.

I think we have to look at last season as a one off. It was not our true level, and our true level is still some way below City and Chelsea, for very obvious reasons, and are in a group (if most things work for most of the teams) with Arsenal, the Mancs, Spurs and Everton, plus any "surprise package" challenging for the remaining three European places (2 CL plus the UEFA Cup).

We have definitely deepened the squad overall without strengthening the 'best' first 11, though we have more options for alternative first 11s of a better standard than anything we had last season (Suarez excluded).

Deepening the squad quickly was always a risk. Too many additions always makes it hard for the team to have consistency for the first half season.

My worry with this committee nonsense is that the manager needs to know he will get exactly who he wants (finance permitting) rather than the additions being done by 'majority decision'.

When you look at our last two Summer windows they seem somewhat haphazard and a 'scattergun' approach. And where was the plan to cover the "distinct possibility" of Suarez leaving? We got away with the buyout clause or whatever last Summer, but his new contract in December obviously removed any ambiguity and therefore made his leaving an even more distinct possibility, or at least much easier should the player choose to do so.

But the right players are only half the equation. Until we add a defensive solidity and aspect to our game, "hit and run" defeats will keep happening.

I think going forward we have to accept this season as a 'next stage' transition, where we've had to add depth and numbers and therefore we have to wait and be patient (to a degree) for all those new pieces to fit into the puzzle.

However, the manager needs to accept that the defensive deficiency is not just down to individuals or individual mistakes, but that the setup and method of playing can bring increased pressure and that has to be factored in on the training ground and plans in place to restrict the effects. Also, we look like we don't even practice defensive basics. The players don't look confident or self assured, things that being well drilled and well practiced at, brings. Yesterday's performance was not down to over committing when attacking. It was just rank poor basic defending.

Villa will struggle. Their drop down the table may even begin in the next game, but Villa's dominance over us at Anfield during the entirety of Rodgers' time here is a far more worrying problem than Villa's seasons overall.
What they do against other teams is really irrelevant, apart from the points our rivals gain against them, which does impact us. It's our performances and the ease with which Lambert sets Villa up to 'deal' with us that's the worry.

Opposition managers now have 3 Villa games to watch and learn from. The past results weren't one offs, they are part of a pattern.

Hold on in there, Martin. The ride will be anything but boring.  ;D
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #140 on: September 14, 2014, 03:40:29 PM »
You echoe many sentiments of mine there, tes mate. I realised long ago we played well above our true level last season but would hate to see all the progress that actually have been made undone by slipping back into oblivion this season.

Although there were a lot of new faces in the team (I don't think the back-4 have more than 30 PL-games between them) we also had a couple of experienced players on the pith, all of whom refused to raise to the occasion in terms of offering leadership and stability. I'm very disappointed with Gerrard and Henderson. They should offer their teammates much more than they did. Coutinho, I'm not disappointed with, I just don't think he is any better than this. He's only brilliant when we're allowed to play counter attacking footy when he gets the time and space to unleash Sterling, Sturridge, etc. He just haven't got the ability to unlock teams like Silva, Fabregas or Cazorla do.

Some might criticize Balotelli but he never really got anything worthwhile to work with. Having said that I think his movement could've been better and smarter at times but that might be down to the gelling thingy.

All in all this was a blow to our top-4 aspirations. United will not be far off after they beat QPR at home and Everton will also keep up the pace. This feeling you can't see where the goals' are gonna come from gets me really down. 20 million for Markovic? Really?
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #141 on: September 14, 2014, 07:52:52 PM »
20 million for Markovic? Really?

It's to see it at the moment, but as the modus operandus is to buy young players, the fees are about "what they could be", not what "they actually are", so I guess we just have to be patient. It's hard though when we've paid the fees we have to not see a more immediate return for it.

Balotelli did OK. He kept his temper really, really well with Senderos and Hutton being allowed to kick him all over the place without the ref seeming to care. That is a good sign.

We have to learn against teams like Villa that work hard defensively that we have to work even harder finding space, moving the ball quickly, snappy passes, with options each time a player receives the ball to be able to play his pass quickly. That requires effort from our players. We didn't see that yesterday. 
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #142 on: September 14, 2014, 09:56:22 PM »
new players will always take time to gel.

but what I find very worrisome, is that basic defending is still beyond us.

and that when we don't juggernaut the opposition in the first 30 minutes of a game, we seem lost for any new ideas.

I think that tactically, we are very limited, and defensively, we are farcical at times.

Without a world class striker to force the opposition back, this season, and create and score goals for fun......this season, we are gonna keep shipping goals, but struggle to hit back as prolifically as we did last season.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #143 on: September 14, 2014, 10:51:11 PM »
new players will always take time to gel.

but what I find very worrisome, is that basic defending is still beyond us.

and that when we don't juggernaut the opposition in the first 30 minutes of a game, we seem lost for any new ideas.

I think that tactically, we are very limited, and defensively, we are farcical at times.

Without a world class striker to force the opposition back, this season, and create and score goals for fun......this season, we are gonna keep shipping goals, but struggle to hit back as prolifically as we did last season.


Brilliant summary, Dude. We seem to be working our way gradually through the whole squad of the Keystone Cops. You could put together a montage of our defending from last season and this, turn it sepia, add a few grainy scratches and speed it up and you'd have a classsic to rank up there with anything Chaplin or the like ever did. Senderos, yes the same Senderos that the apes man is descended from are descended from, lost his marker with consummate ease several times, with exactly the same move, which in itself constituted simply moving. The defensive mistakes are so basic that they don't get any more basic.

We may not have Suarez, but in his absence everyone else should be stepping up their work rate. Talent is harder to come by but everyone can excel in the work rate stakes. Henderson's game was cramped playing deep next to Gerrard, and that had the effect of making Gerrard even less effective.
We also missed Allen. There, I said it. He's not exactly the biggest or the strongest, but he's like a pesky little fly you can swat but not kill and that keeps buzzing back for more.

The problem with Balotelli up there on his own is that unlike Sturridge or Suarez, he's not as comfortable pulling out of the middle and working from out to in, and hence allowing our front line to be fluid and interchangeable. It makes defending against us easier. If we can't get in behind because of a very deep line then we have to play quickly into feet and play one touch, with our forward line interchanging much more frequently, crisscrossing and keeping changing the direction and angle of passes allowing an interchange of angled passes rather than straight ones which are easier for defenders to deal with. Bellamy was always so good at that and making those little runs which left dangerous space to utilise and making runs which split the focus and attention of the centre backs. 

When Villa had a lot of possession early on we didn't use their attacking intent against them to counter attack at pace, or move the ball swiftly enough when we regained possession. Even when teams come to sit deep and defend, you can undo them by sheer weight of passing and moving if the space is utilised well, with the ball moving quickly all the time, and they are forced to chase the ball for 90 minutes. It's hard to keep focus for the entire 90 if the movement you're trying to defend against requires intense concentration. Everything about us was ponderous and pedestrian making Villa's job of defending far too easy.
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Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #144 on: September 14, 2014, 11:29:02 PM »
You are all missing the very obvious reason why we lost and looked soooooooo bad.

4-2-3-1.

I keep telling people that formation is dead. For us anyway. It is dead. We play that formation we'll always be like this.

Gerrard cannot play in a "2" in the midfield. Certainly not as part of a two in that formation.

Henderson also has his wings clipped in that formation because he natural game which has improved beyond all our wildest dreams is as part of a 3 man midfield not a two man midfield.

Quite frankly we have no players now that can play in a 2 man midfield apart from Emre Can.

For me we really missed Joe Allen yesterday because he would have started meaning we'd have had three in midfield and thus have the control of the game.

With 4-2-3-1 we couldn't gain any momentum in our attacks. We were too open at the back and played too many crosses.

We are dependent on the system it seems and tbh that is no bad thing as the system does work whether its 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-1-2.

Markovic btw has amazing talent he's going to be fantastic. Lallana too. I agree with Martin on Coutinho and I think Lallana and Sterling are certainties to start over him in our Best XI.

No way is Rodgers leaving out Lallana having shelled out £25m and much more importantly Lallana being his No.1 signing this summer. Plus Sterling is our most important offensive player.

I thought Balotelli could have done more but at least he behaved having been kicked all over the park.

Again I agree the defensive issues are occuring time and again. Let's just hope we work on it in the upcoming months.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #145 on: September 14, 2014, 11:46:02 PM »
You are all missing the very obvious reason why we lost and looked soooooooo bad.

4-2-3-1.

Because we may have 'omitted' to mention it does mean we " missed it".  ;D
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #146 on: September 14, 2014, 11:50:47 PM »
Let's just hope we work on it in the upcoming months.

For that to be the solution would suggest that we haven't done so previously. If not then that's criminally negligent of Rodgers.

If we have done so, then what we're seeing is the culmination and cumulative effect of more than two seasons' "work".

I'm not sure which one makes me shudder the most.
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Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #147 on: September 15, 2014, 09:48:05 AM »
It's taken me 2 days to calm down and be less pissed off at Rodgers.
As soon as i saw the team sheet i went uh oh...
So psychologically, we have a bogey team in villa so what does Rodgers do? Rest our best player and don't play the same formation as we did against spurs. Villa must have loved that and been given a great boost.
Agreed with Edward that the formation played is shiite with gerrard and henderson in that midfield 2...wastes both players abilities...
What winds me up about Rodgers is that he can never do wrong, which is a very dangerous mindset when things do start to crumble...
I think all of us on here have been saying we need to tighten up in defence and def midfield and while rodgers has in fairness strengthened the defence, the glaring hole in midfield is there to see...

Oh and what the hell was mignolet doing for their goal???? Defence can also be undermined by worrying about the keeper. Reina sold for 3 mil and agger who could have played in a defensive midfield role sold for 3 mil. Utter joke.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 09:58:36 AM by barticus »

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #148 on: September 15, 2014, 10:36:38 AM »
Because we may have 'omitted' to mention it doesn't mean we " missed it".  ;D
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #149 on: September 15, 2014, 11:01:16 AM »
It's taken me 2 days to calm down and be less pissed off at Rodgers.
As soon as i saw the team sheet i went uh oh...
So psychologically, we have a bogey team in villa so what does Rodgers do? Rest our best player and don't play the same formation as we did against spurs. Villa must have loved that and been given a great boost.
Agreed with Edward that the formation played is shiite with gerrard and henderson in that midfield 2...wastes both players abilities...
What winds me up about Rodgers is that he can never do wrong, which is a very dangerous mindset when things do start to crumble...
I think all of us on here have been saying we need to tighten up in defence and def midfield and while rodgers has in fairness strengthened the defence, the glaring hole in midfield is there to see...

Oh and what the hell was mignolet doing for their goal???? Defence can also be undermined by worrying about the keeper. Reina sold for 3 mil and agger who could have played in a defensive midfield role sold for 3 mil. Utter joke.

Careful Bart otherwise you'll need to borrow my GTN spray, mate.  ;D

The thing with the defence is that it's not just about the personnel. We could have Beckenbauer, Baresi, Maldini and Phil Neal  :D, all in their prime, and we'd still concede easily. The defensive side of our game always looks as unpractised and worked on as the attacking side (at least last season) looks polished and perfected.

Has the defence undermined Mignolet's confidence and belief, is it the other way round, or are both perpetuating circles for each?

It's amazing how three of us already on here have seen the problems with Hendo and Gerrard's "partnership" and the constricting effect it has on each as individuals and each on the other, yet the manager thought it could and would work.

I totally agree that after the 3-0 at Spurs, despite the defence looking far from certain, or rather Lovren and Sakho, that keeping the same team and shape (as much as injuries permitted) was definitely the way forward, especially against a team we've struggled so much against at home during Rodgers' tenure.
Replace the injured Allen with Lallana, then decide between Coutinho (who's out of form) and Markovic, even consider Suso for the tip of the diamond.
Markovic would have the opportunity to move wide anyway. And then decide between Lambert (probably a better fit against Senderos) or Borini to replace Sturridge.
Lambert would also give us more defensive strength when defending set pieces, something Villa would look to exploit.

I can understand the urge to rest and protect Sterling, as we saw what overplaying a young player who's still physically developing, did to Owen and Fowler, and Robbie, unlike Raheem, didn't need his pace preserving.
Why not play him for an hour, get our noses in front, Villa would then have to settle for the defeat or come out allowing us more space to counter attack. Even just the first half to establish the ascendancy would have been better, then rest him ahead of Tuesday.

Again on Tuesday we could give him only an hour. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.