Season 2014/15

[Ed]

However Brendan's in game management was embarrassing.

224, i would expect you to be supporting the manager
at this point, after all a comeback or revival has to start
somewhere. Like you really have to claw when you're at
rock bottom to get back into the race.

Support your man in his hour of need! It's a club tradition.

I note he made some changes in the line up, either he's
reading my posts (highly unlikely) or picking the team based
on what Jamie Carragher says (possible...). Besides, I also
said the keeper was up for dropping.

Anyway, I think it is in the best interests of the club that he
be given 6 weeks to sort out the mess he has gotten the
club into. If he can't do it he'll be a lame duck by the season's
end at which point Klopp should be given the gig.

Need to be making contact with Klopp now though, as I have
a sneaking suspicion Arsenal will be looking for a new manager
at the end of the season and London's generally a more
favourable destination for foreign coaches.

[Martinmarx]

224, i would expect you to be supporting the manager
at this point, after all a comeback or revival has to start
somewhere. Like you really have to claw when you're at
rock bottom to get back into the race.

Support your man in his hour of need! It's a club tradition.

I note he made some changes in the line up, either he's
reading my posts (highly unlikely) or picking the team based
on what Jamie Carragher says (possible...). Besides, I also
said the keeper was up for dropping.

Anyway, I think it is in the best interests of the club that he
be given 6 weeks to sort out the mess he has gotten the
club into. If he can't do it he'll be a lame duck by the season's
end at which point Klopp should be given the gig.

Need to be making contact with Klopp now though, as I have
a sneaking suspicion Arsenal will be looking for a new manager
at the end of the season and London's generally a more
favourable destination for foreign coaches.

Klopp's a football man first and foremost and I could easily see why he'd find us a more interesting project.

It's hard to support your manager when you realise he's blown it and there's no way back.

*He refuse to rest Gerrard to try something new.

*He refuse to change the formation to help the team regain confidence.

*He is unable to create proper siege-mentality.

*He's unwilling to  make necessary in-game changes.

That was indeed a scrappy draw. For long periods of the game Ludogorets outplayed us to an extent not even RM managed. I can't believe what I'm hearing when Carra say Sterling was very good. At what exatly? Yes, he had a good pass for our second (though I suspect it would've never reached its target against better opposition). Other than that he continuously gave up possession in dangerous areas, failed completely to deliver the ball into the box, their right back had a brilliant game and kept Sterling out of the game for long periods. I honestly cannot stand the special treatment the lad gets.

Lucas had a blinder. Easily his best game since Rodgers took over. He was everywhere and it felt almost weird to witness a holding midfielder do what a holding midfielder's supposed to do - protect and suppor the backline.

My MOTM though was Lambert who held the ball up very well and was a constant physical threat.

We looked knackered during the later stages of the game and I fear we'll struggle against Stoke. A draw at best.

[Ed]

Klopp's a football man first and foremost and I could easily see why he'd find us a more interesting project.

It's hard to support your manager when you realise he's blown it and there's no way back.

*He refuse to rest Gerrard to try something new.

*He refuse to change the formation to help the team regain confidence.

*He is unable to create proper siege-mentality.

*He's unwilling to  make necessary in-game changes.

I think Klopp has shown a pedigree of winning leagues and doing well in Europe.
Arguably this was missing with the current manager.

I don't disagree with any of your assessment of Rodgers. I'm also not in the slightest
bit sentimental about the predicament that he has gotten himself into. I do, however,
like to see a manager's skills when the shed hits the fan, which is why I think he should
be given 6 weeks to put us back in contention for Europe and progress in the cup
competitions.

I can't believe what I'm hearing when Carra say Sterling was very good.

[Tes]

Here, let me help you out.

Pascoe looks like a flightless bird trying to take off.

[Ed]

Pascoe looks like a flightless bird trying to take off.

Were those photos taken in response to us keeping a clean sheet,
Suarez saying he's homesick and wants to return to Anfield or
Stevie announcing his retirement 

[Tes]

Question though is whether that's down to Rodgers or if the blame should be shared? From a structural point of view our problem seem to stem from a) the directive of the owners, i.e., buy young talent with potential which is then executed by a dysfunctional transfer-committee. Such a set up surely decreases transparency and the ability to point the finger. In short we don't know whether Lavezzi was a no go because of the directors, or because the transfer committee didn't rate him or because Rodgers didn't want him. It's a fornicating mess, a cluster fork if you like.

That sorta just sums it all up nicely.

Fallows and Hunter. Previously at Man City. Famed for unearthing hidden gems and rough diamond paying way over the odds on a bunch of averagely average players during Mark Hughes time there, and before that?

Hardly the sort of CV required. The entire recruitment area of the club needs a total overhaul, personnel and procedures. A manager must have the ultimate final say on the player selected to be brought to the club, whilst the board obviously have a say in valuation and remuneration.

Afterall, it's the manager that pays the ultimate price if the 'collection' of players don't get the results.

[Tes]

Were those photos taken in response to us keeping a clean sheet,
Suarez saying he's homesick and wants to return to Anfield or
Stevie announcing his retirement 

All three, simultaneously, and I'd never write to Santa again.

[Tes]

The next managerial decision, and I've deliberately not said 'appointment', is the most crucial since Dalglish had to step down. At the time we missed the perfect and only candidate, Sir Bobby Robson.

If Rodgers doesn't turn it around or at least show signs in the next 5 league games, or we get embarrassed by Basel, then FSG have to make the right decision - he goes before the Winter window opens.

If Rodgers does turn it around but we fail to either win a trophy or get top 5, and at this stage, in the present context, UEFA Cup football seems appealing, then he goes at the end of the season.

However, FSG may get the decision wrong, and that's before the appointment's even been considered.

As far as Rafa goes, I see great parallels there with Cloughie. With Peter Taylor, brilliant. Without, average at best and then the alcohol really took hold. So no Pako, no Rafa.

I would go for Ancelotti. Absolutely. We need someone who can re-shape more than just the first 11 or first team squad. The scouting/recruitment has been a mess for a long time, probably since Paco Herrera left, and definitely before he arrived. It probably can be traced back all the way to the 'retirement' of Geoff Twentyman.

We really do need someone with his depth of experience, but also who is still very much in his prime and peak as a winning manager/coach, unlike someone like Van Gaal, who's best years are definitely behind him and have been for a while, despite his huge experience and previous success.

Klopp - has his bubble burst or have Dortmund really sold one star too many, even for them? I'd be uncomfortable with us being part of finding out the answer to that question. We experimented with Rodgers, and whilst Klopp wouldn't be a risk to that sort of degree, his track record before Dortmund was poor, and as with some players who are a perfect fit with only one club and an utter disaster wherever else they've been, there are managers like that too, and Klopp may or may not be one of them. Can we afford to take the risk?

Who else is there? There's no young prodigies out there, thankfully, and very few if any, solid performers ready and capable of taking the next and career defining step, ala Wenger at Grampus Eight or Taggart at Aberdeen.
Or is there another Shankly, who's bobbed around from job to job, solidly but ultimately unsuccessfully, simply not having had a job and a club that was the 'perfect fit'.

Rodgers may go on and eventually profit from this or may sink with barely a trace, but he's not got long to save his job and could do worse than having the removers ready on speed dial.

[the dude abides]

Pascoe looks like a flightless bird trying to take off.

     he sure does.







but doesn't Brendan have a bit of the David Brent look, in those two images.

Maybe David Brent meets Alan Partridge.

Heck, maybe Norwich is a destination for our lad in the new year.

[Ed]

Klopp - has his bubble burst or have Dortmund really sold one star too many, even for them? I'd be uncomfortable with us being part of finding out the answer to that question. We experimented with Rodgers, and whilst Klopp wouldn't be a risk to that sort of degree, his track record before Dortmund was poor, and as with some players who are a perfect fit with only one club and an utter disaster wherever else they've been, there are managers like that too, and Klopp may or may not be one of them. Can we afford to take the risk?

I agree Tes that regardless of a recovery, the Rodgers appointment appears to have
run its course. The white flag at the Bernabeu was the most embarrassed I've ever felt
as a supporter of the club.

On the subject of Klopp, we may not even get the chance to be so choosy, as Arsenal will
be looking for a long-term replacement for Wenger soon.

Just like with getting players, we exist in a context where we may be unable to
attract top-class managerial talent, unless the owners get the finger out.

[the dude abides]

we used to have a widely respected European boss, who could identify and attract the finest, Torres and Mascherano, among them.

I am with Tes and Ed, in that we are not entirely sure of how Klopp would do in England.  Maybe his star is worn out.  I imagine his issues this year, have came about because Bayern kept taking his best players.  But who knows, if he is capable of rebuilding, and working in a different country.

Like Tes, my key issue with Rafa, is his estrangement from Pako.   Like Clough without Taylor, I have some doubts.

Mind you, he did quite well down at Chelsea. that half season.

The other worry, is that one cannot be confident that we have owners (or a chief executive), who have the necessary skills to identify and recruit a top boss.

[Edward224]

Until Brendan goes there is really no point discussing the next manager as it will end up being a futile debate.

Best thing is to just discuss the matters at hand.

I agree with Martin in that the transfer committee is a clusterf**k and the lack of figurehead to point the blame is a serious matter.

However we all know this summer that Lovren, Moreno and Lallana are definites that Rodgers wanted. The others (inc. summer of 2013) are up for debate.

[Tes]

The other worry, is that one cannot be confident that we have owners (or a chief executive), who have the necessary skills to identify and recruit a top boss.

First they need to be able to identify a necessity, and then as Dude rightly says, have the requisite to get it right.

They didn't have the "canniness" to sit on their hands, and wait for the inevitable events at Stamford Bridge, before they gave Dalglish 3 years.

[Tes]

Until Brendan goes there is really no point discussing the next manager as it will end up being a futile debate.

Best thing is to just discuss the matters at hand.

I agree with Martin in that the transfer committee is a clusterf**k and the lack of figurehead to point the blame is a serious matter.

However we all know this summer that Lovren, Moreno and Lallana are definites that Rodgers wanted. The others (inc. summer of 2013) are up for debate.

It's just as frustrating talking around in circles, as it is watching us in permanent deja vu mode. The owners/board etc really need to stop trying to translate what works/happens in American "sports" and jemmy it into an English football club. A thoroughbred may cover the ground quickly, but won't plough the field any quicker than a shire horse.

The committee idea doesn't work, but what seems to make it even worse are the names up for discussion (poor scouting?), and the positions those players will fill. If either or both aren't what's required then their decisions are going to be even more wrong. But who has decided or had a hand in deciding the positions that need strengthening and who has helped filter down the contenders and compile the final list that the committee considers and makes decisions on, whether it's on a collective list or a player by player at any given moment basis - if it even works anything like any of that in the first place.

There's a really simple fact though that the whole committee ethos totally misses - a manager has to want and believe in a player and a player has to belief and feel that the manager wants, trusts and believes in the player.

If it's not obvious, and it patently isn't, that the manager has chosen a player, how can a player have the required belief and confidence, firstly to sign for the club and if he gets beyond that point, feel that he is 'the manager's choice' once there and at any point whilst there . Players go through crises in confidence anyway, but any doubt about whether he really was originally wanted by the manager in the first place is only going to make things worse.

Too many players appear to have lost confidence and belief in themselves, and in their team mates as a collective, simultaneously.

How does Balotelli feel. Before he was signed the manager categorically and forcefully denied he would be anywhere near the club, and then after a handful of games the manager is placing blame on him personally, and in public. Now the first part could quite obviously have been a denial for the benefit of the press, and Balotelli should know whether that's the case or not, depending on whether contact had been made and discussions of any sort held, by the time Rodgers made the denial. How does the second part get explained away though?

[Ed]

I think that the two debates can co-exist and
are not unrelated.

I presume that Dude and Tes have seen enough of
Rodgers at this point to have moved beyond the will
he won't he get it right, is he isn't he the right manager.
In fact, I think we were all just bemused by his appointment
in the first place and if you check the posts from roughly
3 years ago, I'm sure we all predicted the current malaise.

The issue of whether the owners have the ambition and/or
brains to turn us into a perennial top 4 club is a debate
worth having occasionally, imo.

Regarding Rafa, if he wins Serie A, there's a way back for him, imo.

The other debate concerns the current campaign and whether
Rodgers can turn it around under intense scrutiny at a top club.
Last time i looked we were still in all competitions (if top 4 is now
a competition) so there is plenty of scope to assess the appointment
that the owners made with Rodgers.