Season 2014/15

[Martinmarx]

Can't wait to here his bullshit about being outstanding, showing grit, determination an'all the crap he loves to spout.

THIS IS HOW IT fornicating GOES WHEN YOU PLAY SUBSTANDARD PLAYERS IN A FORMATION THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY. HOW fornicating DIFFICULT CAN IT BE TO GET? REALLY!!!!

[Edward224]

So frustrating and infuriating.

[Edward224]

So we sack Rodgers and then we start the vicious cycle again by giving a year of grace for a new manager (unless you are Hodgson of course) followed by a 2nd year of progression, followed by a 3rd year of stagnation. Never ending. I haven't reached the point where you are all now at - I think I am the only one now on this forum not wanting him sacked -  but i fully understand why you all feel this way. I will let you know when I am at the end of my tether with Rodgers. It's not their yet but the noose is tightening.

[Ed]

It's a bit premature to be talking about the sack.

Currently, as I see it (and I don't watch the games),
it could be argued that he's made some changes and
is steadying the ship - I may be wrong, no problem.

He has this 6 weeks, to sort the season out, if we're
out of all competitions early January it speaks for itself
in terms of this season.

At which point, it seems fair to compare it with last season
and the first season and begin to ask the question not
concerning Rodgers future but the club's.

[the dude abides]

THIS IS HOW IT fornicating GOES WHEN YOU PLAY SUBSTANDARD PLAYERS IN A FORMATION THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY. HOW fornicating DIFFICULT CAN IT BE TO GET? REALLY!!!!

the owners have to be asking, what did we get for the enormous amount of money we spent this summer (and in previous windows).

I have never seen a weaker Liverpool team, than the one I have watched these past few months.

it is scary.  There are issues all over the pitch.

The work our manager should have been doing his first two years, never got done.....and now we have a whole pile of issues.

We have no balance.  We have no organised defence.  We have no organised midfield.  And obviously we do not have a fit striker at the club, who is worthy of wearing the red shirt.

Suarez hid a mountain of issues.   

But now, with the little Uruguayian gone, our king has no clothes.

[Edward224]

Agreed Ed. I just feel it has to come to a point where we step off this vicious 3/4 year managerial circle and all that it entails and stick it out and grind it out for a bit.

There are problems very big problems but I am hesitant that anything meaningful would change were we to change the manager yet again.

Of course Brendan needs to be hold accountable for the players we have brought in, the tactics and preparation of the team etc. If/when we go out of the CL tuesday, if/when the mancs and arsenal beat us and if we don't manage to sign a striker in January and if we fail to get 4th at the end of the season and if we are still completely hopeless defensively and offensively then Brendan will need to be held accountable for that and do the honourable thing and resign.

HOWEVER as I said. I am sick and tired of this 3/4 year managerial cycle that we've have for 24 years where the manager gets 1 year period of grace, followed by 12-18 months of progression, followed for 12 months of stagnation or even worse going backwards (Houllier). I sick and tired of it. There has to come a time where we say stop. Where we say let's just grin and bare it for now and see what happens.

Or shall we start another cycle?

Also you think we're going be getting Klopp or Ancelotti or Guardiola. Give me a break. (FSG will never employ Rafa. The day they do will be the day Hell freezes over. Believe me on that

If/when Brendan goes our choices for manager will be one of Koeman, De Boer or Laudrup or even AVB.

Sorry for my rant 

[Martinmarx]

HOWEVER as I said. I am sick and tired of this 3/4 year managerial cycle that we've have for 24 years where the manager gets 1 year period of grace, followed by 12-18 months of progression, followed for 12 months of stagnation or even worse going backwards (Houllier). I sick and tired of it. There has to come a time where we say stop. Where we say let's just grin and bare it for now and see what happens.

Or shall we start another cycle?

Is there a choice really, Edward? I too hate this 3-4 year managerial cycle. Back in the day I would've agreed. Thing is we're one of 7 clubs being investigated for overspending. Unfortunately, there's no if-you-wasted-a-couple-of-hundred-millions-on-utter-crap-we-don't-care-clause. This means the next 2-3 years are already a lost cause. We could stick with Brendan through this, of course, but why not bring in a manager who has at least the basics of this game instead of this I'm-gonna-play-my-tiki-taka-footy-despite-having-a-shine-a-light-squad-stubborness.

I'm just so pissed off he got caught up in his own success. Thought more of the man.

[Ed]

Agreed Ed. I just feel it has to come to a point where we step off this vicious 3/4 year managerial circle and all that it entails and stick it out.

btw, in no way shape or form am I suggesting we
continue to employ mr. Rodgers.

The key question to be answered, imo, is can we
trust him anymore??

I agree with Dude's point regarding the first two years
and Suarez.

Why, I'm patient 'til January is because from the club's point
of view I think we need to learn what the problems are for
the club, where we are, what we need.

[the dude abides]

Brendan Rodgers claimed after the game that: “We can’t always rely on Stevie. His talent is world-class but that contribution has to come around the team. It can’t be up to him every single game to be the catalyst.

“It is very hard to replace that quality but going forward that is something of course we will need."

“He was excellent when he came on and of course he plays on Tuesday."

“He still has that talent, he has world-class ability and it is me looking to manage that."

“We have a big month. Until the new year there are big games and the management of Steven is fine, there is no problem with that.”

Only Aston Villa and Burnley have scored fewer goals at home than Liverpool’s seven and Rodgers’ decision to leave Fabio Borini out of the squad — meaning he had no striker on the bench — was questioned.

[the dude abides]

Rodgers is still talking BS about the club and Gerrard.

Gerrard is s.h.i.t.e.

The lad we cannot fecken do without, is Lucas.

Why won't some reporter or journalist cite to Rodgers the data regarding what happens to Liverpool results, when Lucas does play, and when he doesn't play.

And on the same theme, ask the Brentmaster General, about our results when Gerrard is in, and not in the team.

I cannot be having any more of Rodger's BS.  He needs to be cornered by a journalist worthy of the name, and answers demanded of himm.

It is not fair on other lads who deserve recognition, and praise, to see this endless moronic fact-less sycophant BS being uttered by our manager.

[Edward224]

Who we going to bring in then Martin to do as you requested?

We won't be getting any tier 1 managers any time soon. Klopp is Arsenal bound next season. Guardiola is going to Manchester in 2016 or 2017. Ancelotti too may well end up in Manchester or he will go back to Italy (Juve, Milan or the national team.)

So what's next? Only managers that are basically in the same boat and we'll have this merry go round them all every 3-5 years.

A few things need to be remedied. We MUST have transparency on who is involved in the transfer committee and who is accountable for what.

Brendan has to sort himself out now and fix this mess. It is a mess and he has made many mistakes. So he has to be accountable for them.

If he continues to play his favourites and discount the likes of Lucas and Sakho then he will only have himself to blame.

So he is at a cross roads right now with us. Most definitely the remainder of this season will indicate whether or not he has chosen wisely or not.

Another thing we have to consider is that will he be allowed to spend in January? We have no option imo but to spend. With Lambert and Balotelli as our only options we won't finish higher than 6th or 7th.

As I said I can understand you all wanting rid of Brendan and I am the only solitary person on the forum still on the side of him not wanting him sacked - but the noose is tightening every game slowly and slowly for me at the moment. But I am not there yet and I don't know when that point will come.

[Ed]

Who we going to bring in then Martin to do as you requested?

We won't be getting any tier 1 managers any time soon. Klopp is Arsenal bound next season. Guardiola is going to Manchester in 2016 or 2017. Ancelotti too may well end up in Manchester or he will go back to Italy (Juve, Milan or the national team.)

So what's next? Only managers that are basically in the same boat and we'll have this merry go round them all every 3-5 years.

A few things need to be remedied. We MUST have transparency on who is involved in the transfer committee and who is accountable for what.

Brendan has to sort himself out now and fix this mess. It is a mess and he has made many mistakes. So he has to be accountable for them.

If he continues to play his favourites and discount the likes of Lucas and Sakho then he will only have himself to blame.

So he is at a cross roads right now with us. Most definitely the remainder of this season will indicate whether or not he has chosen wisely or not.

Another thing we have to consider is that will he be allowed to spend in January? We have no option imo but to spend. With Lambert and Balotelli as our only options we won't finish higher than 6th or 7th.

As I said I can understand you all wanting rid of Brendan and I am the only solitary person on the forum still on the side of him not wanting him sacked - but the noose is tightening every game slowly and slowly for me at the moment. But I am not there yet and I don't know when that point will come.

Fair enough 224, I agree with most of your analysis there.

Where, I tend to disagree is your argument about the managers.
Hiring a top manager is about selling the vision and ambition of the club,
making us an attractive prospect, so the question there is whether we
have the chief executive and/or owners capable of doing that.

Then there's the procedure, If you recall the process leading up to the
current managerial appointment, it was shambolic. Have lessons been
learned to go about things in advance of a media frenzy?

One of the lessons from the Rodgers appointment is the risk involved in hiring a
manager without a track record. At the same time every manager needs to
start somewhere. There are guys out there who may not be considered tier 1
now but who are working away successfully, possibly disgruntled, at other
clubs winning things or consistently competing at the top level (Klopp, is it Simeone
who manages Athletico?).and would bite your arm off to work at LFC.

What's essential is the talent, hunger and class of the manager, if we can't get the
current darlings of the media. But again this is down to the talent and ambition of
the chief executive and owners.

[Martinmarx]

Who we going to bring in then Martin to do as you requested?

We won't be getting any tier 1 managers any time soon. Klopp is Arsenal bound next season. Guardiola is going to Manchester in 2016 or 2017. Ancelotti too may well end up in Manchester or he will go back to Italy (Juve, Milan or the national team.)

So what's next? Only managers that are basically in the same boat and we'll have this merry go round them all every 3-5 years.

A few things need to be remedied. We MUST have transparency on who is involved in the transfer committee and who is accountable for what.

Brendan has to sort himself out now and fix this mess. It is a mess and he has made many mistakes. So he has to be accountable for them.

If he continues to play his favourites and discount the likes of Lucas and Sakho then he will only have himself to blame.

So he is at a cross roads right now with us. Most definitely the remainder of this season will indicate whether or not he has chosen wisely or not.

Another thing we have to consider is that will he be allowed to spend in January? We have no option imo but to spend. With Lambert and Balotelli as our only options we won't finish higher than 6th or 7th.

As I said I can understand you all wanting rid of Brendan and I am the only solitary person on the forum still on the side of him not wanting him sacked - but the noose is tightening every game slowly and slowly for me at the moment. But I am not there yet and I don't know when that point will come.

There are some very good points there Edward and I have to admit my childish sacking rant might express more my post-game(s) frustration than being a statement born out of rational analysis. I am, however, utterly convinced Rodgers won't be able to fix this. When he look back at his career in a few years time he will shake his head at this naiveity in playing a 4-2-3-1 formation with this squad.

In other words, I realise he won't be sacked any time soon. And the main reason for that being what Ed so brilliantly put in his reply to you, we don't have the people connected to the club to sell the Project/prospect to the right manager.

The main reason for axing him now is he can't be trusted with more money. . We need to save them for the new manager or we will be utterly and completely unable to attract a tier 1 manager. Keeping him with this squad for the rest of the season will destroy it mentally meaning we'll need to completely new set up.

It is a mess indeed.

[Edward224]

Well Martin that is the whole crux of the matter.

You say he can't be trusted with more money and you may well be right.

However with no transparency or accountability of who is in the transfer committee and who makes the decisions then, ultimately how do we know that he can be trusted or not?

We can sell our vision and ambition of the club but is doesn't matter one iota. Not one iota.

Klopp WANTS to be Arsenal manager. Guardiola WANTS to be a Man Utd manager. Simeone wants to manage in Italy next. Don't tell me how I know, I just do. You can sell ice to the eskimos but you will never ever sell LFC to those three.

We can have power point presentations, we can have 1000 pages of what our visions and ideals and ambition for the club. Fact of the matter is that we are 5th on the list of clubs in england for top managers - well not top but let's say elite - to manage. Both Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal are all much more attractive. Because of these reasons:-

1:- Man City and Chelsea have unlimited money.

2:- Man Utd are the biggest club in england.

3:- Arsenal have the 2nd biggest turnover in england and 20 years of stability.

We are way below them. So sell visions and ambition all you want. It won't matter one iota to those elite managers. Because they know who they want to manage in england already.

[Ed]

I am, however, utterly convinced Rodgers won't be able to fix this.

I think so too. Fair play he's managed to steady the ship and eke out some results,
but that's nowhere near enough of what's expected of the manager of LFC. Granted
he'll buy himself some time if he makes it out of the CL group, but then it's off to Old
Trafford at the weekend and on to the quarter final of the Cap 1 Cup.  This is football
at a top club and is why there's no room for suspect decision-making in the transfer
market.

You say he can't be trusted with more money and you may well be right.

It's more the return on investment that is worrying, Comolli for all his faults bought Suarez.
I see very little that's come in under Rodgers which has increased in value and we can't
afford another one. Having said that, we need a striker to continue the season, it's a complete
write off otherwise.

I think it's up to the manager though to either get Balotelli/Borini to start scoring goals or bring
the lad in who was loaned out to France.