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Author Topic: Season 2014/15  (Read 217953 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #420 on: October 23, 2014, 03:02:41 PM »
tis amazing how we always felt the same - re needing Bobby Robson at Anfield.

For me, Ancelotti is the modern day Bobby Robson. The way he always conducts himself, the way he kept his council (and has done ever since about it) at Chelsea when the Russian sacked Ray Wilkins and lumbered him with an assistant, the fact he wins trophies wherever he goes in a style that's the definition of balance, and the fact that he's not a cheque book manager (his last two clubs have owner pressure to spend their wealth) is a bonus.

Like you, Dude, I get the feeling that being a 'real' football man, he would relish the chance to get us back as a European heavyweight. He's a huge fan of Anfield and the atmosphere.

The owners need to act and get Ancelotti tied up for when his Real contract ends.

Rafa would probably divide the fanbase, or rather the fanbase would divide over him. If he could bury the hatchet and re-unite with Pako then I'd definitely have him on my list, but without, I feel he's just lost something, or rather he's not everything he could be.

Again, like Sir Bobby, Ancelotti doesn't have a permanent sidekick, an 'other half'. That for me tips the balance. 
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #421 on: October 23, 2014, 04:34:12 PM »
Real Madrid’s Carlo Ancelotti ‘honoured’ to face Liverpool at Anfield

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/21/carlo-ancelotti-real-madrid-liverpool-honour

"Real Madrid’s manager Carlo Ancelotti said it was “a great honour” to come to Liverpool as only the second individual after Bob Paisley to win three European Cups.

“He was a fantastic manager and to be sitting here in the stadium is a great honour for me,” Ancelotti said. “The atmosphere at this ground is always a little bit special, and the European history is exceptional. I think you will see a spectacular explosion of football on Wednesday night, everything that is good about the game.
"
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #422 on: October 23, 2014, 04:55:12 PM »
Real Madrid’s Carlo Ancelotti ‘honoured’ to face Liverpool at Anfield
Nice words by classy guy.

I think the players did some kind of round of applause
for him after the game in the dressing room. Presumably
they knew it was important for him to be 3 up against us
at half-time and win the game.

If we start to look at the Rodgers minus DoF as a failed
experiment i.e. Blind £13.8 million and Kroos £20 million,
we're now in a position where we are consistently missing
out on the non-superstar, but highly influential players while
at the same time paying crazy money to the fruits of
Southampton's youth academy.

Then it's time for the owners to begin asking the question,
where in his 20 year tenure can Rodgers realistically take us?

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #423 on: October 23, 2014, 06:40:59 PM »
Then it's time for the owners to begin asking the question,
where in his 20 year tenure can Rodgers realistically take us?

That's the stuff of nightmares. It's becoming pretty obvious that he doesn't have any answers to the questions being asked.

Balotelli's providing a convenient attention diversion at the moment. I hope the owners can see through that particular smokescreen.

In the absence of a suitable replacement and whilst we're in the top six and within striking distance of fourth, I'd leave Rodgers in place, but the scales are not tipped in his favour for still being in our dugout next August.

Suarez was never going to be replaced with one player. Even Messi and CRonaldo wouldn't bring everything he did, but goals and lessening the need for as many could and should have been sorted, an it's the manager's job to make sure everyone put in an extra 5%. Whilst an increase overall in team effort would still not be as noticeable as one man's effort, it would have taken focus away from accusations of being a one man team and the desired 'affect' could have been achieved.
Are we saying or being shown now that the players were inspired and motivated by a team mate, rather than the manager? 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #424 on: October 23, 2014, 06:53:01 PM »
That's the stuff of nightmares. It's becoming pretty obvious that he doesn't have any answers to the questions being asked.

Balotelli's providing a convenient attention diversion at the moment. I hope the owners can see through that particular smokescreen.

In the absence of a suitable replacement and whilst we're in the top six and within striking distance of fourth, I'd leave Rodgers in place, but the scales are not tipped in his favour for still being in our dugout next August.
Brilliant Tes!

This man, who refused to work under a DoF, was
given £120 million to spend.

We're not interested in the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Management, ultimately is about delivering results.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #425 on: October 23, 2014, 08:47:45 PM »
Brilliant Tes!

This man, who refused to work under a DoF, was
given £120 million to spend.

We're not interested in the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Management, ultimately is about delivering results.

He's now spent around £200M during his time here. Whilst I'm not expecting 100% success, even Bob Paisley had his Frank McGarvey, but has that money been used wisely, on the right players, the right positions, players at the right time in their career to offer us what we need, of sufficient quality and has value been gained on at least 3 in 4 transactions?

It may seem short sighted to castigate him for buying 'for the future' as well as the present, but by his own admission, the squad was still paper thin after 4 windows, and now after 5, can we really spot the difference?

Should he for example have spent £8M* on Alberto, £7M* on Ilori and even £18M* on Sakho last Summer, when he'd spent his first Summer trimming the wage bill (aka experienced players) and hence the squad, both in terms of quality, experience and 'overall' depth (not just numbers)?
Were either of the first two such highly talented youngsters that we simply had to have them now, or regret not buying them 'when we had the chance', ala CRonaldo and Kun Aguero?
Or spending £10.5M* on Borini, only to dispatch him on loan after one injury hit season, spend another £8M* on his replacement, only to send him out on loan aswell. Was that really the best use of £18.5M* that could have been made?

We've spent £30M+ on Sakho and Moreno, two young defenders with the ability to offer something now, but with the hope they will only be at the start of their contribution level, and that that particular graphical curve will arc sharply upwards over the next 5 years, but we've not invested in the coaching infrastructure to help that become a reality.

We looked at Lovren last Summer, and had had an interest pre-dating Rodgers, but for whatever reason chose to spend marginally less on Ilori than Southampton spent on Lovren, and then decide maybe we should have bought him afterall and then pay out more than double. Maybe at £20M, a 135% increase in price in just 12 months, we should have just decided that particular ship had sailed, especially like in the cases of our other two expensive defensive recruits the infrastructure doesn't exist to make sure we wring every penny of that £20M price tag out of him. 

Was £20M on Markovic a more essential outlay than putting it towards the solution of the 'here and now' problem of filling a Suarez sized hole, especially when a Balotelli, by the manager's own admission, was the best we could afford to fill the £75M boots of Luis?

Obviously as a window is unfolding it can be a touch puzzling as to 'why that player' etc, and 'yeah but hindsight etc' can be used as a counter argument to what I'm saying, but now the window's been shut a while and a long time on last season's transfer activity, is it really any clearer as to why these particular players were bought, how they fit in the overall picture, what made them and the outlay made on each deemed to be so necessary over alternatives not purchased?
Is it a case of 'ah, now I understand' or is the question still as baffling now as it was at the time and at any point since? 

As with Balotelli, everyone knew who and what he was, yet it was a 'risk', but a risk deemed worth taking, but as with any risk, you can't then moan or be surprised when the known potential downside becomes uppermost.
Has the £16M + wages investment really heralded any benefit over not having spent it, especially when there was a good chance that this situation was likely to be the outcome? And playing Balotelli as a lone striker when he clearly isn't and never has been is hardly helping to try and prevent the highly potential downside from becoming reality. Rodgers in a way has poured flammable liquid on the flames and is now wondering why a 'liquid' hasn't doused the fire.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #426 on: October 23, 2014, 09:05:10 PM »
I've just seen this on another forum, and in an amusing way, it's quite true about Mario:

"I feel for the lad because he's just hapless, not nasty or overtly selfish. But he's like the girlfriend who'll give you a great b***j** once every month, but has you taxiing her all over, expects a load of attention, hates your music, and is so thick you have to repeat everything twice and you're still not sure she's got it. You know it can't and won't last, and when it is finally over, you'll be wondering why you didn't ditch her sooner.

And yes, eventually you'll look back and think 'she wasn't all that bad really'. Because you'll remember the b*** j**s and not the stress. Until you spot her down the pub with a new bloke asking him to taxi her around.
"
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #427 on: October 23, 2014, 09:06:38 PM »
He's now spent around £200M during his time here. Whilst I'm not expecting 100% success, even Bob Paisley had his Frank McGarvey, but has that money been used wisely, on the right players, the right positions, players at the right time in their career to offer us what we need, of sufficient quality and has value been gained on at least 3 in 4 transactions?

It may seem short sighted to castigate him for buying 'for the future' as well as the present, but by his own admission, the squad was still paper thin after 4 windows, and now after 5, can we really spot the difference?

Should he for example have spent £8M* on Alberto, £7M* on Ilori and even £18M* on Sakho last Summer, when he'd spent his first Summer trimming the wage bill (aka experienced players) and hence the squad, both in terms of quality, experience and 'overall' depth (not just numbers)?
Were either of the first two such highly talented youngsters that we simply had to have them now, or regret not buying them 'when we had the chance', ala CRonaldo and Kun Aguero?
Or spending £10.5M* on Borini, only to dispatch him on loan after one injury hit season, spend another £8M* on his replacement, only to send him out on loan aswell. Was that really the best use of £18.5M* that could have been made?

We've spent £30M+ on Sakho and Moreno, two young defenders with the ability to offer something now, but with the hope they will only be at the start of their contribution level, and that that particular graphical curve will arc sharply upwards over the next 5 years, but we've not invested in the coaching infrastructure to help that become a reality.

We looked at Lovren last Summer, and had had an interest pre-dating Rodgers, but for whatever reason chose to spend marginally less on Ilori than Southampton spent on Lovren, and then decide maybe we should have bought him afterall and then pay out more than double. Maybe at £20M, a 135% increase in price in just 12 months, we should have just decided that particular ship had sailed, especially like in the cases of our other two expensive defensive recruits the infrastructure doesn't exist to make sure we wring every penny of that £20M price tag out of him. 

Was £20M on Markovic a more essential outlay than putting it towards the solution of the 'here and now' problem of filling a Suarez sized hole, especially when a Balotelli, by the manager's own admission, was the best we could afford to fill the £75M boots of Luis?

Obviously as a window is unfolding it can be a touch puzzling as to 'why that player' etc, and 'yeah but hindsight etc' can be used as a counter argument to what I'm saying, but now the window's been shut a while and a long time on last season's transfer activity, is it really any clearer as to why these particular players were bought, how they fit in the overall picture, what made them and the outlay made on each deemed to be so necessary over alternatives not purchased?
Is it a case of 'ah, now I understand' or is the question still as baffling now as it was at the time and at any point since? 

As with Balotelli, everyone knew who and what he was, yet it was a 'risk', but a risk deemed worth taking, but as with any risk, you can't then moan or be surprised when the known potential downside becomes uppermost.
Has the £16M + wages investment really heralded any benefit over not having spent it, especially when there was a good chance that this situation was likely to be the outcome? And playing Balotelli as a lone striker when he clearly isn't and never has been is hardly helping to try and prevent the highly potential downside from becoming reality. Rodgers in a way has poured flammable liquid on the flames and is now wondering why a 'liquid' hasn't doused the fire.

* I reserve the right to be slightly out with the fees paid.  ;D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #428 on: October 23, 2014, 09:21:41 PM »
And whilst Rodgers is bringing in (or not) the coaching resources we desperately need, John Achterberg can be hugely upgraded upon also.

A relatively (in comparison to footballers) cheap investment in coaching staff could bear far more fruit than just spending even more money on premium priced bottled tap spring water to pour into the leaky bucket that is the whole defensive side of the manager's philosophy.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #429 on: October 23, 2014, 09:34:20 PM »
I've just seen this on another forum, and in an amusing way, it's quite true about Mario:
Jesus, just think if Ronaldo was a bird, what a girlfriend he'd make  :D

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #430 on: October 23, 2014, 09:39:31 PM »
Jesus, just think if Ronaldo was a bird, what a girlfriend he'd make  :D

Oh dear, things really are grim, aren't they?  ;D

Knowing our luck we'd wake up with an 'Arry Rednapp, Fat Sham or Steve 'Fathead' Bruce type bird the following morning.   :D
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #431 on: October 25, 2014, 08:20:04 PM »
Liverpool 0 - Hull 0

Always reckoned a draw - because steve bruce has too much, tactically, than our lad.

I think he has to be shown the door, come May, with us in the interim period speaking to people like Ancellotti and Benitez, about the job for next season.

Suarez bought Rodgers time.....without the little uruguayian, rodgers is left naked and exposed for what he really is.
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There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #432 on: October 25, 2014, 09:22:24 PM »
I think he has to be shown the door, come May, with us in the interim period speaking to people like Ancellotti and Benitez, about the job for next season.

Suarez bought Rodgers time.....without the little uruguayian, rodgers is left naked and exposed for what he really is.
Would you trust him with any more of the club's money?

Comolli bought Suarez.

It's all about the big decisions and he can't make 'em.

There was arguably a certain logic in the original DF idea
(which Rodgers had the arrogance to reject), a guy with
connections and status in football who could influence
quality non-superstar players to join us from Europe.

But you look at Southampton 5 points ahead of us in the
league after we relieved them of 3 players for £50 million.
One of them Lovren was signed by them for £8.5 million
and sold to us after a season for £20 million??

The signing of Balotelli for £16 million? Borini £11 million?
There are others who's names I can't even remember...

We're led to believe that the absence of Sturridge & presence
of Balotelli are the problem.

This is utter nonsense.

A club such as ours cannot afford to be so wasteful in the
transfer market and hope to be competitive with teams with
far greater resources.

We needed a manager and got a coach.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #433 on: October 26, 2014, 05:58:55 AM »
very true. Ed.

But I have always despised the notion though of a Director of Football.

I do not want it, ever.

What I would have instead, is a rejuvenated bootroom......using people like John Aldridge, Roy Evans, etc.  Maybe bring in a senior spaniard, who knows Spain inside out.  Maybe headhunt someone like Graham Carr (Newcastle's top scout).

Your question, Ed - re would I trust Rodgers with any more transfer money.  No. 

He doesn't find talents, that are not already found - instead we will find lads at other top clubs that can't get a game (lads from the likes of chelsea or barcelona eg sturridge)......or be it via young talents via OPTA stats on a computer database.

And we seem to have no system.  We are endlessly linked with wingers.

We need to have some overall plan as to our transfer policy - and I just do not see it.

It's like we have a kid in charge of the sweet shop.   

My fear is that the yankee owners will be so swayed by his oily smarmy explanations, as to give him another season to turn things around.

But what is the point.  Even when we qualify for the CL, what is the point.  We are so out of our depth. What we see in the CL so far, is what I totally expected.  We are clueless.  We have no tactics.    If any club wants to beat us, it is simple......hold your shape and stay tight the first 20 minutes of the game.....after that, Liverpool are there for the taking.  And get on top of Gerrard, he is a weak link, and will make mistakes when pressurised.

Rodgers has to go.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #434 on: October 26, 2014, 10:24:56 AM »
very true. Ed.

But I have always despised the notion though of a Director of Football.

I do not want it, ever.

What I would have instead, is a rejuvenated bootroom......using people like John Aldridge, Roy Evans, etc.  Maybe bring in a senior spaniard, who knows Spain inside out.  Maybe headhunt someone like Graham Carr (Newcastle's top scout).

Your question, Ed - re would I trust Rodgers with any more transfer money.  No. 

He doesn't find talents, that are not already found - instead we will find lads at other top clubs that can't get a game (lads from the likes of chelsea or barcelona eg sturridge)......or be it via young talents via OPTA stats on a computer database.

And we seem to have no system.  We are endlessly linked with wingers.

We need to have some overall plan as to our transfer policy - and I just do not see it.

It's like we have a kid in charge of the sweet shop.   

My fear is that the yankee owners will be so swayed by his oily smarmy explanations, as to give him another season to turn things around.

But what is the point.  Even when we qualify for the CL, what is the point.  We are so out of our depth. What we see in the CL so far, is what I totally expected.  We are clueless.  We have no tactics.    If any club wants to beat us, it is simple......hold your shape and stay tight the first 20 minutes of the game.....after that, Liverpool are there for the taking.  And get on top of Gerrard, he is a weak link, and will make mistakes when pressurised.

Rodgers has to go.

I'm also concerned whether he has answers to the questions being asked. At the same time I feel it's too early to ask his exit. In fairness any manager would struggle to lose arguably the best forward set-up in the history of the PL. My worry is that Sturridge's season is all but over already. He'll be back just in time for the 3rd international break. I can also see him pick up a another knock after 3-4 games disrupting his recorvery meaning he'll be out effectively til the new year.
 
Even though we struggled to create the kind of chances we created for fun 6 months ago I really think the 2nd half was the best I've seen on this side of August. Allen, again, was an inspiration and one of our better performers. Coutinho really shone when he came on. Can needs games but at least offer physical presence. Gerrard I think is holding back the development of the team and is the main reason our defensive game is soo poor - it's unbelieveable Rodgers fail to see how incompetent he is at dictating our game from the holding position.

Our back for wasn't really tested that much but I must say Moreno looks way overestimated. Very dodgy in his positional game while offering nothing going forward. Enrique's had what, 2 starts since last November. He brings so much more experience and quality going forward. Manquillo I like though.

2 very tricky fixtures coming up. If you offer it I'll take 4 points from them.
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