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Author Topic: Season 2014/15  (Read 191942 times)

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #705 on: December 09, 2014, 09:54:56 PM »
I'm finding myself really quite angry tbh. Really angry and I want to vent out that at something!

If he talks about showing character I swear I'll go down to melwood and smack him.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #706 on: December 09, 2014, 09:58:49 PM »
So Gerrard said Lambert wasn't fit and Borini ain't even on the bench.

If that isn't gross negligence then I don't know what is.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #707 on: December 09, 2014, 10:43:43 PM »
Could be Dude, it would put them ten points clear of us and represent
a massive turnaround in fortunes for both clubs.

Seems ridiculous that as a club we are, once again, reduced to having
the game at Old Trafford, which has nothing to do with the season as
a whole, being our biggest game of the season.

But what is even more f**king ridiculous is that the feeder and dumping
clubs that we have done business with over the last few years are all currently
above us in the table i.e. Southampton, Swansea and West Ham. If ever
there were a clearer example of the desperate predicament the club finds itself
under Rodgers in then surely that must be it.

We're in the Europa league, I remember someone once said it was a blessing not
to be in it...

Skulks off to hibernate for a while, 'tis gonna be a cold winter  :)

And long I reckon.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #708 on: December 11, 2014, 10:44:57 AM »
I'm finding myself really quite angry tbh. Really angry and I want to vent out that at something!

If he talks about showing character I swear I'll go down to melwood and smack him.

So Gerrard said Lambert wasn't fit and Borini ain't even on the bench.

If that isn't gross negligence then I don't know what is.

Welcome to 'chez Tes'. Come on in, make yourself at home. We have 5 'frustration rooms', graded accordingly to what our manager has done or not done - I'm sure at your stage of being you'll find them more than useful and accommodating to your developing needs.  ;D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #709 on: December 11, 2014, 10:51:43 AM »
I am watching here the Swiss champions (Switzerland, a country of 8 million people), totally bossing us at Anfield.

Some perspective Dude, please. They invented the cuckoo clock, fondu and the brilliant Toblerone. These are not an ordinary flavour of human beingness.  :D

How ironic that the former manager of Swansea totally outwits the former manager of Swansea.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #710 on: December 11, 2014, 10:59:21 AM »
Reports are emerging this morning Sterling is said to be "unhappy" with the new contract proposal the club has offered. Well, considering he's one of the most overrated players around I wouldn't crawl to him upping the figures. Here's my notes from his first half contribution against Basel where he was no better or worse he's been for most of this season. He can fack off for all I care if 70 ain't enough.

*Weak pass to Johnson in the box.
*Failed dribble.
*Lose ball to throw in.
*Backward pass at the half-way line.
*Wins a corner by good pressing.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins free-kick outside the right corner of the box.
*Wins free-kick at the half-way line.
*Failed reception of the ball in the box.
*Free in the box misses pass.
*Backward pass outside the box.
*7 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*3 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*Short pass near offensive corner flag.
*Succesful dribble but weak shot at goal.
*Sideways and backward pass at the half-way line.
*Concedes free-kick at half-way line.
*Failed pass through the center.
*Failed head pass half-way up the opponents half.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins the ball at the half-way line but fail the following pass.
*Failed pass.

That's the average Sterling for you, although I might have missed a couple of sideways/backward passes. 
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #711 on: December 11, 2014, 12:05:40 PM »
Reports are emerging this morning Sterling is said to be "unhappy" with the new contract proposal the club has offered. Well, considering he's one of the most overrated players around I wouldn't crawl to him upping the figures. Here's my notes from his first half contribution against Basel where he was no better or worse he's been for most of this season. He can fack off for all I care if 70 ain't enough.

*Weak pass to Johnson in the box.
*Failed dribble.
*Lose ball to throw in.
*Backward pass at the half-way line.
*Wins a corner by good pressing.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins free-kick outside the right corner of the box.
*Wins free-kick at the half-way line.
*Failed reception of the ball in the box.
*Free in the box misses pass.
*Backward pass outside the box.
*7 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*3 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*Short pass near offensive corner flag.
*Succesful dribble but weak shot at goal.
*Sideways and backward pass at the half-way line.
*Concedes free-kick at half-way line.
*Failed pass through the center.
*Failed head pass half-way up the opponents half.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins the ball at the half-way line but fail the following pass.
*Failed pass.

That's the average Sterling for you, although I might have missed a couple of sideways/backward passes.

In a nutshell, the whole contract thing is the definition of modern football. He's young, his whole career is ahead of him, not behind, and whilst he progressed a lot last season when the team were playing well going forward and he had Sturridge and Suarez to play with and off, this season his progress has again stalled.

A truly great player, of any age, makes a difference irrespective of the standard of his team mates. Sterling has had 'moments' this season, but has not done it consistently. Even taking into account the massive over inflation of modern football's wage levels, a player under 25 doesn't deserve to be on £100k a week or more, unless he is doing what Messi did for Barca or Ronaldo did for the Mancs, game in, game out, season in, season out befoe they reached the age of 25.

Suarez could be credited with 'carrying us' last season, the same can't be said about Sterling this season, despite our dire need, and the stage being set for him to be our true 'stand out' player, he simply hasn't stepped up to the mark.

He's what, 20 years old? £75k, all things considered, would be a fair offer. It can be reviewed again at the end of each season, and what these players all forget is that they get a pay rise when they perform above previous levels, but if their level 'drops back', their pay doesn't accordingly.

Give Sterling 'everything' at a young age, then you take away hunger and motivation to a degree. He needs to be put in his place if he's getting ahead of himself and if he doesn't like it then he can go and join a bunch of mercenaries elsewhere.

I'd rather see us stuck in mid-table but with a group of players busting their balls for the club, than have a group of money minded, money driven players keeping us challenging.

Is that daft? Probably, but our club was built on a set of values, beliefs and principles which I happen to believe in on a personal level too, and just because something isn't 'en vogue' doesn't make it 'old fashioned' or reduce it's credibility.

Here endeth today's sermon.  ;D

Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #712 on: December 11, 2014, 12:08:02 PM »
Reports are emerging this morning Sterling is said to be "unhappy" with the new contract proposal the club has offered.

Sell him so Rodgers can invest £20M apiece on the next Victor Moses and Wellfried Zaha.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #713 on: December 11, 2014, 01:16:18 PM »
Fantastic article by Marcotti

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-united-blog/68/post/2190637/liverpool-brendan-rodgers-must-stick-to-his-roots-in-order-to-rescue-the-reds

Brendan Rodgers had a bumpy start to his Anfield career. At times, the "Being Liverpool" documentary even felt like a parody. After a 3-1 Boxing Day defeat at Stoke in 2012-13 -- the midpoint of the campaign -- Liverpool found themselves 10th in the table, 21 points off the top. In the second half of the season, they gained 36 points. Had they kept that pace all year long, they would have been fifth, one point away from the Champions League.

You know what happened next. Liverpool finished second in 2013-14, letting the title slip away with that 2-0 home defeat to Chelsea and the 3-3 draw at Crystal Palace. And you know where they are now: out of the Champions League and ninth in the Premier League, 15 points off the top.

In terms of results, they are back where they were in the first half of Rodgers' regime: 25 points from 19 league games, 1.31 points per game vs. 1.4 points per game this season. In the 18 months in-between, they were a wholly different side, capable of gaining 119 points in 57 matches, or 2.09 per game.

So what's the difference? The simplistic, stock answer is: Daniel Sturridge. He arrived in January 2013 and broke down after three games in 2014-15. He hasn't been back since. His presence coincides with Rodgers' Liverpool doing well. In his absence, they've done badly.

The loss of Luis Suarez, of course, was also a huge blow. He's gone and he's irreplaceable.

That's one way to look at it, and a tempting one to some. It distills the game down to individuals. When Rodgers had two world-class strikers to paper over his cracks, he was devastating. Without them, he's not.

Rodgers and Liverpool are struggling but it can be fixed if the manager returns to his successful roots.

There's a problem with this thinking. First, there were 17 games over that 18 month period during which either Sturridge or Suarez was unavailable. Liverpool gained 2.24 points in those games, which is actually better than their record when they had both.

Second, it implies that Rodgers' contribution is irrelevant and that he's only as good as his front two. You can choose to believe that, if you like, or you can give him the benefit of the doubt, as I choose to do, based on his body of work at Swansea.

Liverpool's improvement, beginning in January 2013, was not solely down to the arrival of Sturridge. Indeed, it had little to do with signings. Other than Simon Mignolet and Philippe Coutinho, none of those who arrived in that 18 month spell enjoyed significant playing time.

The difference came on the training pitch. Rodgers developed a system that allowed Suarez and Sturridge to thrive together. (And, just as important, as the stats show, on their own.)

While it's true that Suarez and Sturridge contributed greatly to the Reds' success, it's not all down to them.

Jordan Henderson, derided by many, became a better player -- and an England fixture. Raheem Sterling developed into a star. Sturridge -- a guy who arrived with a reputation, however unfair it may have been, as a "bad egg" -- showed he wasn't just a great player, he was a good professional as well. Steven Gerrard scored 18 goals in those 18 months -- as many as he had notched in the previous three years.

You don't want to reduce Suarez to mere numbers, but he did score 43 goals in 48 league games since that fateful Stoke match on Boxing Day, 2012. He had 28 in 62 before that. Simply put, he wasn't a $100m player prior to Rodgers.

It could all be a massive coincidence. Maybe Rodgers just found his rabbit's foot for those 18 months. Maybe Liverpool were just lucky for a very, very long time. Maybe all those guys who seemed to improve at around the same time would have improved anyway, regardless of whether the manager was Brendan Rodgers, Buck Rogers or Mister Rogers.

But I don't buy it.

Unless you're actually a Liverpool player or coach, you don't actually know what he does on the training ground. You only get second-hand accounts, which you can then juxtapose with what you see on the pitch. And I've had enough to conclude that he was working on formations and schemes and movements that made the team better. While also getting individual players to perform better. Not that Rodgers was perfect -- far from it. Even during Liverpool's stellar 18 months, they left a lot to be desired defensively. But it was clearly his day-to-day coaching that was having a positive impact.

Now, that's no longer happening. And as I hope I showed above, it's not simply a function of Sturridge being out.

That's what he needs to regain, first and foremost, if the season is to be turned around. Find a tactical scheme that works for the players you have. It seems obvious, but that's what good coaches do. And that's what got Rodgers to do well at Swansea and later at Anfield.

Clearly, you can point to other mistakes. Much has been made of the summer signings and the fabled "transfer committee." What it basically means is that signings are not left solely to Rodgers but are approved by a group which includes chief executive Ian Ayre, head of performance and analysis Michael Edwards, head of recruitment Dave Fallows, chief scout Barry Hunter and Rodgers himself.

Because Liverpool's signings as a whole have been lackluster -- Sturridge and one or two others apart -- it's seen as a huge problem, particularly by those who are ideologically opposed to the notion of the omnipotent Mr. Ferguson-style boss.

Have all the new signings paid off? Not even close but in the case of Markovic, it can turn around.

It's true that Liverpool have overpaid for some guys in some cases and bought the wrong players in others. But while some of the execution has been poor, the structure itself is not a problem, because the different components bring their own expertise to the table. Hunter is a scout; he will have seen more of the potential signings than anyone. Edwards is the analytics expert who can (hopefully) identify value. Ayre is the businessman who knows the budgets and, supposedly, knows how to negotiate. Rodgers has the big picture. You can talk about hierarchy and influence all you like, but even Sir Alex, the ultimate autocrat, relied on input from others who had more specific expertise.

The new arrivals as a group aren't nowhere near as bad as they've been depicted in some quarters. They simply haven't contributed the way their past performance suggests they would.

You would expect a guy with Rodgers' body of work to figure out a way to get this group to contribute consistently. You certainly would not expect him to do what he did in the last few games, erecting "safety-first" formations and adopting a small club, short-term mentality. As I mentioned on Monday, that's not why he's there. He's there to build something, to turn these guys into a team.

You can also point to other mistakes that were made. Steven Gerrard hasn't complained about it but you would expect more clarity about his position -- both on the pitch and at the club -- and his future. It's not surprising then that he's in no rush to extend his deal.

Sterling has been ridden like some kind of workhorse. At times, you feel like he's single-handedly asked to provide all of Liverpool's creativity in the final third. And, as a result, he's been inconsistent. Young players often are. That's why managers are selective in how they use them. Not Rodgers.

Sterling is a superb asset for Liverpool but he needs rest in order to rediscover his best form.

Sterling has featured in all but one of Liverpool's games this season. The club have played 2100 minutes of football: he's been on the pitch for 1854 minutes. Only Mignolet has played more. By the time he turned 20 on Monday, he had amassed 99 first team appearances. Lionel Messi, by comparison, had made 71 at the same age; Cristiano Ronaldo, 100.

But here's the difference. Messi had lasted 90 minutes for Barcelona 25 times before his 20th birthday, Ronaldo 30 for Sporting and Manchester United. Sterling's done it 49 times for Liverpool. He's a special talent, absolutely. But if two of the greatest players of all time -- both precocious superstars -- were being used far more sparingly at teenagers than Sterling is, perhaps there's a reason.

Injuries haven't helped and mistakes have been made -- crucially, few of them of the kind that can't be undone -- but there is still plenty to salvage from this season.

Rodgers may or may not be the right guy to turn Liverpool around and take them forward. What's pretty certain in my view is that the guy impersonating Rodgers -- the one who talked about the "importance of clean sheets" and fielded these insipid, fearful, immediate, results-driven and blue-collar teams over the past few games - is definitely not the guy Liverpool need. He hasn't demonstrated the skill set to be that kind of manager.

What he has shown is the ability to play a different brand of attacking football, to make players better, to make teams greater than the sum of their parts. That's what won him plaudits at Swansea, that's what landed him the Liverpool job and that's what raised expectations through the roof last year.

That's the Rodgers Liverpool need right now, the one who makes a difference above all on the training pitch.

It might not work. But if it doesn't, at least he'll go down swinging. And at least it will be Brendan Rodgers, and not this faux replica, who comes up short.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #714 on: December 11, 2014, 01:50:00 PM »
In a nutshell, the whole contract thing is the definition of modern football. He's young, his whole career is ahead of him, not behind, and whilst he progressed a lot last season when the team were playing well going forward and he had Sturridge and Suarez to play with and off, this season his progress has again stalled.

A truly great player, of any age, makes a difference irrespective of the standard of his team mates. Sterling has had 'moments' this season, but has not done it consistently. Even taking into account the massive over inflation of modern football's wage levels, a player under 25 doesn't deserve to be on £100k a week or more, unless he is doing what Messi did for Barca or Ronaldo did for the Mancs, game in, game out, season in, season out befoe they reached the age of 25.

Suarez could be credited with 'carrying us' last season, the same can't be said about Sterling this season, despite our dire need, and the stage being set for him to be our true 'stand out' player, he simply hasn't stepped up to the mark.

He's what, 20 years old? £75k, all things considered, would be a fair offer. It can be reviewed again at the end of each season, and what these players all forget is that they get a pay rise when they perform above previous levels, but if their level 'drops back', their pay doesn't accordingly.

Give Sterling 'everything' at a young age, then you take away hunger and motivation to a degree. He needs to be put in his place if he's getting ahead of himself and if he doesn't like it then he can go and join a bunch of mercenaries elsewhere.

I'd rather see us stuck in mid-table but with a group of players busting their balls for the club, than have a group of money minded, money driven players keeping us challenging.

Is that daft? Probably, but our club was built on a set of values, beliefs and principles which I happen to believe in on a personal level too, and just because something isn't 'en vogue' doesn't make it 'old fashioned' or reduce it's credibility.

Here endeth today's sermon.  ;D

But a good sermon it was. Spot on!
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #715 on: December 11, 2014, 01:53:41 PM »
Fantastic article by Marcotti.

Yes, a good article that only help underline how lost Rodgers is. I honestly believe, in fact I'm convinced, he's beyond the point where he can go back to being Brendan Rodgers. It seems he thought getting us to concede less will keep his job, but as Marcotti points out, that's not who he is. In short, I don't think he can find his way back to himself at Liverpool. He will do it eventually, but it will be at another club. It's too late and I just want to cry.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #716 on: December 11, 2014, 04:38:26 PM »
Some perspective Dude, please. They invented the cuckoo clock, fondu and the brilliant Toblerone. These are not an ordinary flavour of human beingness.  :D

How ironic that the former manager of Swansea totally outwits the former manager of Swansea.

good spot!  I had not realised they were both ex-Swansea managers.

yes, Toblerone, cuckoo clock, tax avoidance, etc all invented in Switzerland.

fair enough, Basel are in a golden era right now.....these past few seasons they have embarrassed United and Chelsea.

But I was aghast, watching how easily they bossed the midfield, in that first hour at Anfield.

Our owners, on seeing how feeble we were, must have wondered where their money was squandered, these past 5 transfer windows.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #717 on: December 11, 2014, 07:20:18 PM »
Our owners, on seeing how feeble we were, must have wondered where their money was squandered, these past 5 transfer windows.

It struck me yesterday that is is, in fact, 5 windows now. And this is all we got to show for. I'm starting to think GH wasn't that bad in the transfer market after all.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #718 on: December 11, 2014, 07:46:49 PM »
But I was aghast, watching how easily they bossed the midfield, in that first hour at Anfield.

I had to try really hard to remember that the team in white were Basel and not Real. Their movement was good, but then it's far easier to move away from a statue than a shadow.

The panic was obvious every time the ball ends up in our box. Feet and legs slashing at the ball in the hope of making some sort of good enough connection to get it clear.

One tired striker on the pitch, non on the bench = Skrtel as our central striker late on.

Whatever it was that Rodgers filled their heads with in the second half of last season isn't working this season, or maybe losing Suarez and Sturridge has drained the squad of belief.
Stats about success or failure without Sturridge or Suarez are pointless, aren't they, and no parallel to this season, as we either had one or the other, and with the knowledge that the missing one would return.

Confidence and belief, especially in sport, can hinge on the smallest things.

Whether or not the players brought to the club are indeed Rodgers' first choices, partial choices or he was 'over ruled' really don't matter either, as the end product of 'whichever process' simply isn't working, and that's the real point.

Like last season, Rodgers seems to have become quickly distrustful of a good percentage of the new arrivals, which is strange in itself. If he didn't want or doesn't use the players because they weren't his choices, it seems odd that he would sign a new contract in the Summer. Surely if his hands were being tied so tightly, or his chances of working how he believes he needs to is being so undermined, why would he extend that situation?

I won't answer that question by accusing him of being mercenary and just signing the extension to pocket a greater pay off, but there seems a lot of things that aren't adding up and certainly aren't working, but the solutions and the reasons why appear as evasive as ever.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #719 on: December 11, 2014, 09:39:48 PM »
I had to try really hard to remember that the team in white were Basel and not Real. Their movement was good, but then it's far easier to move away from a statue than a shadow.

The panic was obvious every time the ball ends up in our box. Feet and legs slashing at the ball in the hope of making some sort of good enough connection to get it clear.

One tired striker on the pitch, non on the bench = Skrtel as our central striker late on.

Whatever it was that Rodgers filled their heads with in the second half of last season isn't working this season, or maybe losing Suarez and Sturridge has drained the squad of belief.
Stats about success or failure without Sturridge or Suarez are pointless, aren't they, and no parallel to this season, as we either had one or the other, and with the knowledge that the missing one would return.

Confidence and belief, especially in sport, can hinge on the smallest things.

Whether or not the players brought to the club are indeed Rodgers' first choices, partial choices or he was 'over ruled' really don't matter either, as the end product of 'whichever process' simply isn't working, and that's the real point.

Like last season, Rodgers seems to have become quickly distrustful of a good percentage of the new arrivals, which is strange in itself. If he didn't want or doesn't use the players because they weren't his choices, it seems odd that he would sign a new contract in the Summer. Surely if his hands were being tied so tightly, or his chances of working how he believes he needs to is being so undermined, why would he extend that situation?

I won't answer that question by accusing him of being mercenary and just signing the extension to pocket a greater pay off, but there seems a lot of things that aren't adding up and certainly aren't working, but the solutions and the reasons why appear as evasive as ever.

Some very interesting and urgent points made there, Tes. You're right, whatever the reasons(s), it just isn't adding up and it sure as hell doesn't work.

It struck me the other day Rodgers came out, if memory serves me correctly, after tha back to back defeats to Villa and West Ham saying it's transition again. Questionmarks have to be raised though as to how what decisions he's taken to accomodate that situation. One thing is clear and that is he never put any faith in building a post-Suarez/Sturridge out injured side by using new faces. The feeling is he's completely lost and have no idea how to handle things. I expect pretty much the same team that started against Basel to get the nod against the Mancs. They will bury us. I can see a 5-1 hammering written all over it.
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