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Author Topic: Season 2014/15  (Read 189754 times)

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #720 on: December 12, 2014, 04:24:10 AM »
I think the irony now is that we have a squad of players to compete
successfully in the Europa league, and let's face it Stevie showed
that he still has the appetite for the big occasion. 

The question is whether that adventure can co-exist with a league campaign...

I see a way out for the season if we can keep it tight at Old Trafford and
prevail in the Cap 1 cup tie next week.

I do remember Rafa toiling away in the Europa league in his final campaign though,
with nothing to show for it bar the sack. It was horrific stuff.


Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #721 on: December 12, 2014, 11:55:51 AM »
I think the irony now is that we have a squad of players to compete
successfully in the Europa league, and let's face it Stevie showed
that he still has the appetite for the big occasion. 

The question is whether that adventure can co-exist with a league campaign...

I see a way out for the season if we can keep it tight at Old Trafford and
prevail in the Cap 1 cup tie next week.

I do remember Rafa toiling away in the Europa league in his final campaign though,
with nothing to show for it bar the sack. It was horrific stuff.

I would say the feeling right now is very very similar to how it was 5 years ago. 5 lost years, indeed. Are we looking at another 5. Will we even be in the PL in 5 years time? Just asking the question gives an indication how far behind this club's become the big teams.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #722 on: December 12, 2014, 02:55:09 PM »
we will get embarrassed in the Europa League too.

Without Suarez, the emperor has no clothes.

All the work that needed to be done in the past 18 months - set up a balanced defence and midfield - was not done.   We sold top players, and brought in journeymen, and young potential.

It's over for Rodgers.  We will start to climb up the league - largely because other sides will struggle, as the season goes on, with smaller squads.   But we will never get near the top 4 places.

The thing is - United are playing dire football right now.   With a proper team, we could really be stomping debt-laden United's face in the dirt, this season.   Instead, we are worse than useless. 

I have never seen a more disorganised and unbalanced Liverpool team, in my lifetime.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #723 on: December 12, 2014, 03:55:23 PM »
I have never seen a more disorganised and unbalanced Liverpool team, in my lifetime.

You said it before, mate, and I didn't agree. I do now, however. You were right all along about the dark side! ;D
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #724 on: December 12, 2014, 05:47:56 PM »
You said it before, mate, and I didn't agree. I do now, however. You were right all along about the dark side! ;D

thanks, Martin.

good to see you and edward finally over on the dark side.   

I will be handing out the Rafa stickers later, and the black mass starts at midnight (Italian Naples time)

 ;D

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #725 on: December 12, 2014, 06:06:17 PM »
I would say the feeling right now is very very similar to how it was 5 years ago. 5 lost years, indeed. Are we looking at another 5. Will we even be in the PL in 5 years time? Just asking the question gives an indication how far behind this club's become the big teams.
I agree that the season has elements of each of
3 previous managers in it. Hodgson's flounderings,
Kenny's focus on the cups at the expense of the league
and Rafa's last campaign.

Still, Rodgers is barely in the gig a minute and is a young man.
He should, if there is any quality about him, be able to turn things
around this season, given what remains on the table, 3 cups and
top 4.

You'd expect to see some return on a £120 million investment over
the Summer.

we will get embarrassed in the Europa League too.
His record in it with us is dire.

He faces a dilemma though, jettison the cups and go in
pursuit of top 4...(The Rodger's balloon ride is never likely
to be weighed down by insignificant things like trophies, it's
all about the hot air  ;D )

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #726 on: December 12, 2014, 07:21:08 PM »
I changed my mind.

Rodgers in. I will give you my reasons.

The long term direction of the club is so much more important than again starting another managerial cycle. How do we bridge the gap against financially duped clubs and ones that are money making machines. Will removing Rodgers help us get there quicker, I dont think so.
If I was to put it simply, then the team that are 5th in financial power should be finishing 5th in the league, until football is no longer about finances (the FFP dream).

But if say for example Arsenal fans can't accept 4th place and see it as lacking ambition, then how could Liverpool fans who have been champions of europe 5 times accept a lesser position?

Build the stadium, bring youth players in, develop a good base, and more importantly, somehow keep our best players. This is more important than changing the manager because he has shown what he can do when he has top players at his disposal.

Sometimes the reality is not very pretty and fans feel its easier to change the position of the manager than to change the position of the club. If Rodgers was in a position where Suarez may not want to leave because he is the highest paid player in world football, and where Sanchez rejected London because his girlfriend preferred the extra 100k a week then I have no doubt we would be playing great football now and would be through to the last 16 of the champions league, sometimes its as simple as that.

Rodgers has panicked meaning results have suffered and he put his faith in the experienced old guard. I understand why he did it, but unfortunately they let him down.

He needs to go back to one of the main things which endeared him to Martin, I and most LFC fans hearts - and the primary one of those was giving youth a chance. If you look at players brought in and players we already have at the club - we have the potential to build an excellent and balanced side. It will make mistakes, but you expect that. What is hugely disapointing is the fact we play the experienced old guard and they make the same basic errors that you'd expect of youth, but they are so long in the tooth they won't ever learn. Let the youth make the same mistakes, as at least then you have a direction and progression.

Flanagan, Sakho, Moreno - Average age of 24? That's the core of our defence, why persist in Johnson who won't be here next season, Skrtel who isn't right for the system, Enrique who's best days are gone. Lovren is the exception as he is not that old nor young and that is the biggest burden Brendan has to carry. He should be in the prime of his career leading the defence but he couldn't lead Pavarotti to the buffet. (That one is ALL mine  ;D )

Can, Henderson, Allen - Average age of 23? 3 potentially excellent box to box multi-tasked midfielders all of the 3 work as a unit covering, attacking, pressing etc. Look at the German midfield that's what we should be aspiring to.

Sterling, Coutinho, Markovic (untill Sturridge comes back) - Average age of 21? 3 brilliantly different but devastatingly quick players who could interchange, whilst Sturridge is out play Sterling as a false 9 with the pace of Markovic and the trickery of Coutinho feeding them both. We need to make defences afraid, pushing them back giving us space to exploit.

That's what I'd be building towards, by next season that should be close to our starting lineup - excellent exposure in the Europa League and experience.

Pass and move, such a simple concept but we've not done it once this season - we play static football because we are forcing players who cannot constantly run and move into our team, so many times you'll see a player pass and just stand there, it slows our entire play. We need to stop resting on the past, lets build for the future, go back to the basic principles that made us great.

The biggest reason why Gerrard and Henderson have been disappointing is because they can't make that forward pass or forward movement any more. Lambert and Balotelli are way too static which means the opposition can press us knowing there is no threat. With Owen, Torres, Suarez and Sturridge Gerrard could play that diagonal pass, he can't now. But getting back to Brendan.

What we're witnessing now resembles the last days of Ged and Rafa. Both went for "caution first, old guard" in their last days to rescue the team and it didn't materialize for them. I recall much of the fanbase being gobsmacked at Aquilani's omission from match-day squads and calling him to play. Not because he was Alonso, but be cause he was a new ray of sunlight, when were creating fork all with Lucas-Masch midfield back then. He came in eventually, and had a ridiculous assist/game ratio and nearly got us to a European final.

This is what Brendan needs to do know. I always see a football manager's job as a ruler of a country. Successful managers study history and trends, and are proactive when a storm eventually hits. Brendan should see that caution first, and going into a defensive shell didn't bear fruits for those before him, and is unlikely to save him at this point. It's time for being bold. What made Brendan Rodgers popular here at the first place was his massive balls. To throw teenage Suso and Sterling into a starting line up at Goodison, to make a sub at 22nd minute when it wasn't tactically working. To change formations 3 times during a game. That ballsy Brendan needs to comeback and kick this currently coward one out.

Joseph Stalin made a massive balls up of a situation when the Nazi German attacked USSR in WW II. He wasn't ready for it as he had a pact with Hitler. After starving people of Leningrad to death, the German army were within kilometres of Moscow. He had a choice. To leave Moscow in order to Save Russia (Buying himself some time)? Or to stay in Moscow and counter-back, risking he'll lost fast. He went within brinks of getting on the train to get to Eastern Russia, like what Mikhail Kutuzov the Tsar did in 1812, but in the last minute, he had a change of heart and made one of the most decisive decisions in history of this world. A decision that changed the world we live in today. A very bald and brave one. He stayed in Moscow and what happened next we all know.

This is the moment we need Brendan to have. A moment of pure instinct. A moment of inspiration that trumps all the self-doubt, caution, and fear. Come on Brendan, you can do it.

* All of the above are mixed with my thoughts and words plus words from other people who articulated my thoughts better than I can. 

I said in my post above on Tuesday that I was angry really really angry at Brendan and that triggered me to say Rodgers out. But I have to be true to myself and to what I think right at this time. All of you disagree with and I completely understand that view. And respect it.

I wasn't joking when I said the noose is tightening over Brendan' reign though. It is at a cross roads and something has to give.

Personally what I'd do is sack all of the scouts, get transparency over the transfer committee and get an experience C.E.O of Director of Football who knows LFC and can make football decisions independent of relying upon others. We need another John Smith and Peter Robinson. Not another Rick Parry or Ian Ayre.


« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 07:29:46 PM by Edward224 »

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #727 on: December 12, 2014, 08:09:02 PM »
Key Recommendation of my 2000 page report.

Hand P45's to Mr Brendan Rodgers and Mr Ian Ayre.

Give them a bottle of whiskey each for Christmas.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #728 on: December 12, 2014, 09:07:06 PM »
I changed my mind.

Rodgers in. I will give you my reasons......

Joseph Stalin made a massive balls up of a situation when the Nazi German attacked USSR in WW II. He wasn't ready for it as he had a pact with Hitler. After starving people of Leningrad to death  <you get the jist>

ruddy nora.

in the dying days of the rodgers regime, edward has gone all cuckoo - like Houllier did.

 ;D

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #729 on: December 12, 2014, 11:51:12 PM »
(The Rodger's balloon ride is never likely
to be weighed down by insignificant things like trophies, it's
all about the hot air  ;D )

Comedy gold.  :D   :D    :D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #730 on: December 13, 2014, 12:32:10 AM »
Personally what I'd do is sack all of the scouts, get transparency over the transfer committee and get an experience C.E.O of Director of Football who knows LFC and can make football decisions independent of relying upon others. We need another John Smith and Peter Robinson. Not another Rick Parry or Ian Ayre.

Parry was an excellent football (man) administrator, but a terrible business man and negotiator. Also Moores put far too much on him. Ayre would have been dead in the water long ago if he'd had Parry's lack bodies spreading the workload.

Totally agree on the scouting system/network/personalities involved (as you'd probably expect me to.

Martin raised a good point about Rodgers and his 'transitional season' comments. Also we have to ask why did we plough ahead, seemingly regardless, with the transfer plans that had previously been 'agreed' on, and especially when those transfer plans didn't/haven't appeared to cover the two/three obvious priorities - Suarez's departure (hardly a bolt from the blue), that making it even greater priority to get cover for Sturridge (which has been the case since he arrived) and finally our inability to keep anything approaching a clean sheet.

And why would it have to be a transitional season? If you bring in 3 players to upgrade the 3 weakest positions in the first eleven, and the upgraded players become the squad player (aka cover/competition), you've improved the quality in the squad in 6 places, without a huge turnover or influx of players.

Further on that point, and to agree with another point 224's made - another way of reducing transition and flux, is to bring in one or two young players from the development/under 21s. They're already at the club, know the first team squad, indeed will have trained alongside them.

I also agree with the waste of time that is using Glenn Johnson. It would have made more sense to use Flanno, Kelly, Wisdom for this season, again keeping 'transition' down, and if they proved not to be the answer over the season, then as Johnson is going to need replacing next season anyway, right back didn't need to be a position of change in any way this Summer and could be left until next Summer. 

Edward, I understand what you're driving at with Rodgers staying put, but you can't leave things to drift and hope they will come good in the longer term if the building and development process isn't working in the present. Rodgers has to prove he can grow things medium and long term but has to deal with and succeed in the present and short term also. It can't be one or the other. It has to be both, and the latter simply isn't happening.

It's frustrating to think of yet another managerial change, but it can't be avoided just for the sake of it. For the good of the club Rodgers needs to get things sorted so we can at least start to climb the table and put up some sort of challenge for fourth, especially in (with the exception of Chelsea) what is a relatively weak league this season.

Rodgers only has to look at the job Koeman's doing. It may not continue until the end of the season, but he's had to deal with a far worse situation than anything Rodgers can claim to have faced going into this season, and Koeman so far has made as good a job as Brendan is struggling. And he does look like he's struggling.

Despite using the bulk of last season's team they're not a patch on what we saw last season. Granted, some components are missing, and that will make a difference, but it seems to be the entire difference. Ok, life after Suarez hasn't been helped by Sturridge's worse injury situation since being at the club, but that shouldn't affect a lot of things that seem to be missing from before.

Also, whilst Rodgers talks about transition, the fact is, just like last season, he isn't using the new signings to the sort of degree that can cause such major disruption as we seem to be seeing, and it seems bizarre that we spend 10s of millions of pounds each Summer on players that the manager then chooses not to utilise regularly.

Who knows what or who is the answer to all this mess but things can't stay the same. Something has to change, somehow.   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #731 on: December 13, 2014, 04:03:43 AM »
Comedy gold.  :D   :D    :D
It just writes itself  :D

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #732 on: December 13, 2014, 04:15:53 PM »
@ Ed   ;D ;D ;D
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #733 on: December 13, 2014, 04:19:56 PM »
David Brent claims: "I think the message for me is clear, I don't think there would be anyone better to do the job here."

"Seven months ago we nearly won the title unexpectedly"

"I had time to work with players and above expectation took them beyond where the club has been."

"This has been a difficult start with new players, less coaching time, young players, virtually starting again."

"I don't think there is anybody equipped better to deal with that. I certainly don't doubt myself."

"I'm not going to cry about it. I'm at a club where the model is based on buying players to create them to be world class."

"The club have employed someone who, without being arrogant, believes he can get the best out of a senior player or youth player. He will always maximise talents that he has and I think last year proved that."

"I think the club is in a different place to others but that is something that I accept as part of my job here at Liverpool. It is something I will always fight for the club and the people to try and make us the best that we can possibly be."
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 04:27:06 PM by the dude abides »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #734 on: December 13, 2014, 04:22:45 PM »
what an arrogant big-headed so and so.   

But I do note, that he is now starting to increasingly refer to himself in the third person.

e.g.  "The club have employed someone who, without being arrogant, believes he can get the best out of a senior player or youth player. He will always maximise talents that he has and I think last year proved that."

The speaking about yourself in the third-person, is indicative of being in the final days in a job.  Houllier started to do the same in his final months at Anfield.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.